An open letter to the political posters

[yabasta 0]

It is weird that you feel in the minority as a conservative and also weird that you see Europe as going socialist. I can`t help thinking that if that were the case then europe might be a nicer place. I used to see conservative as a bad thing. Conservatives do traditionally have some very anti human beliefs. It seems that to be conservative is to demonise people. However i do believe in debate and understanding. I always try to be open to new ways of thought. You see i used to think that you were either left wing or right wing. Now i know that the left and right are constructs to make you think you have choice. I know one group will say Bush is bad and the other will say Kerry is bad. End result is the same. Kerry and Bush are cousins and fraternal brothers and Clinton and Bush senior are golf buddies or something. Just look at who is responsible for terror and see that whoever you think was responsible for 9/11 the cause was the regime of the USA either through incompetence or malice whichever you prefer.

As soon as people stop fighting each other and see the Emperor has no clothes the better. Bush is not running anything. He is a puppet.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think conservatives are in a minority in the US, by any means. Rather, it is the neoconservative interpretation of certain current issues which has become somewhat 'objectionable'.

Half the problem with these types of threads is that noone actually wants to debate. You end up in a shouting match with someone because they believe something, and don't want to hear anything else - even if there is actual supporting evidence to support an alternative interpretation.

Not that you expect to change anyone's point of view on an issue, but it is reasonable expectation to have a frank (and civil) exchange of ideas.

[yabasta 0]

I agree. I don`t really talk to many people who agree with me on things but hopefully they will at least hear me out and naturally i listen to them because there is no point just saying oh you are wrong if you have not even listened to them.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

It is weird that you feel in the minority as a conservative and also weird that you see Europe as going socialist.

Europe is socialist. Didn't you get the memo?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It is weird that you feel in the minority as a conservative and also weird that you see Europe as going socialist.

Europe is socialist. Didn't you get the memo?

Not everything that differs somewhat from the ole' Manchester capitalist model is socialist.

Edited May 12, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

It is weird that you feel in the minority as a conservative and also weird that you see Europe as going socialist.

Europe is socialist. Didn't you get the memo?

Not everything that differs somewhat from the ole' Manchester capitalist model is socialist.

So Europe's not going socialist? Good to know. Thanks.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It is weird that you feel in the minority as a conservative and also weird that you see Europe as going socialist.

Europe is socialist. Didn't you get the memo?

Not everything that differs somewhat from the ole' Manchester capitalist model is socialist.

So Europe's not going socialist? Good to know. Thanks.

Well, if simple labels work for you, by all means, go for it!

[desert_fox 32]

hey Rich..

Im a Conservative also, and I have never a political discussion here, as Im always right. Some may disagree, but we all know they they are wrong.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Well, GaryC, one of the things that really bothers me about conservatives like yourself is the way they say "liberal". They say it like they say the word "satanic", and it comes out in a very derogatory fashion in online political discussions. You automatically assume that if someone takes a liberal stance on an issue they are wrong, and not just wrong but dangerous. That kind of makes it hard to have a thoughtful and civil debate of an issue, don't you think?

Treat liberals with respect and you won't need to run away.

I've said this before but what's often infuriating is that people often don't know what 'liberal' actually means, so it becomes a dirty catch-all term for any political position that a person can't understand or doesn't agree with. Not necessarily 'liberal'. That's works the other way of course too, but I think its a fair comment that since 9/11 political thought in the US has moved pretty far to the right. Issues are much more polarised than they used to be, due in part to bad media reporting (as opposed to 'liberal media', another common misconception - ####### reporting and editing standards somehow equates to liberal. Very simplistic argument IMO.

There's also the other screeching clanger that some folks commonly associate 'liberal' with 'leftist', when in fact they are separate and distinct positions!

Exactly. I find that quite an important distinction even though in the American context it would be better to differentiate between liberal and progressive.

As to GaryC's original post, I think it's sad that you want to stay out of political threads. I do understand your decision, but it's not like only conservative opinions are attacked but also progressive viewpoints and to a certain extent liberal point of views. Certainly, sometimes it all ends in name-calling and derision, but it appears to me that the way to get around that is to stand up for your beliefs and don't let yourself be pulled down to the level of ad hominem attacks. Of course, that means that it is sometimes necessary to give in and to admit that your original logic was flawed...

As a social-democrat/progressive who often feels at odd with many of the viewpoints on the forum, I can just encourage you to hang on and keep posting on politics. It's better for the country than surrendering and despair about being outnumbered.

It is weird that you feel in the minority as a conservative and also weird that you see Europe as going socialist.

Europe is socialist. Didn't you get the memo?

Not everything that differs somewhat from the ole' Manchester capitalist model is socialist.

So Europe's not going socialist? Good to know. Thanks.

Sadly enough, Europe is moving towards free-market capitalism. Social systems are being dismantled at a rapid rate. Just like here...

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

hey Rich..

Im a Conservative also, and I have never a political discussion here, as Im always right. Some may disagree, but we all know they they are wrong.

Really? When I'm wrong I admit it. Most liberals don't.

[hurriya 0]

So incredibly well said it is as if this person read my own thoughts. I have been reading these types of posts all along, but have never responded for this very reason. I have come to notice, however, that there is something of a pattern of the types of items/statements/articles and such posted for discussion and the persons associated with them. Which then provides reason for one to derive the stance that said persons believe or feel on particular issues. I have come to also realize that the sole intent for such conversations is to rile the masses for the poster's amusement. Our job, then, is to refrain from supplying fodder.

Its best to not even start a debate about politics nor religion. All it does it start a fight and these are two topics where no one is gonna win. It's personal choice anyhow. Everyone has their beliefs and you can argue til the cows come on supporting your views and it won't get you anywhere. It's fine to have convictions over your beliefs but starting threads on here just brings turmoil and a locked thread. Best advice avoid these 2 topics in the future.

[desert_fox 32]

Meant to say that I have NEVER LOST as political discussion here.

[antone 0]

So incredibly well said it is as if this person read my own thoughts. I have been reading these types of posts all along, but have never responded for this very reason. I have come to notice, however, that there is something of a pattern of the types of items/statements/articles and such posted for discussion and the persons associated with them. Which then provides reason for one to derive the stance that said persons believe or feel on particular issues. I have come to also realize that the sole intent for such conversations is to rile the masses for the poster's amusement. Our job, then, is to refrain from supplying fodder.

I don't know. I sometimes wonder if our reluctance to debate political issues lest we offend someone isn't, at least in part, responsible for the sorry state of politics today. We have elevated feelings above principles.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

So incredibly well said it is as if this person read my own thoughts. I have been reading these types of posts all along, but have never responded for this very reason. I have come to notice, however, that there is something of a pattern of the types of items/statements/articles and such posted for discussion and the persons associated with them. Which then provides reason for one to derive the stance that said persons believe or feel on particular issues. I have come to also realize that the sole intent for such conversations is to rile the masses for the poster's amusement. Our job, then, is to refrain from supplying fodder.

I don't know. I sometimes wonder if our reluctance to debate political issues lest we offend someone isn't, at least in part, responsible for the sorry state of politics today. We have elevated feelings above principles.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So incredibly well said it is as if this person read my own thoughts. I have been reading these types of posts all along, but have never responded for this very reason. I have come to notice, however, that there is something of a pattern of the types of items/statements/articles and such posted for discussion and the persons associated with them. Which then provides reason for one to derive the stance that said persons believe or feel on particular issues. I have come to also realize that the sole intent for such conversations is to rile the masses for the poster's amusement. Our job, then, is to refrain from supplying fodder.

I don't know. I sometimes wonder if our reluctance to debate political issues lest we offend someone isn't, at least in part, responsible for the sorry state of politics today. We have elevated feelings above principles.

It all started you know, back when I said that the former pope should go to hell...

Edited May 13, 2006 by Fishdude