Guns-on-campus bill advances in Senate

[PlatyPius 5]

I'm a pro-gun person. However, I don't think letting students have guns on campus is a very smart thing. 20 years ago? Yeah, it was fine then. I had a gun in my dorm room in college, as did many other students, and no one ever got shot. These days? I vote no. Kids don't seem to be as responsible as they used to be.

Faculty? Yep, I would allow professors to carry IF they were prepared to try to defend the students. There wouldn't be much call for it really, since most college professors are so far to the left that they lean when they walk. I'd bet most haven't even ever seen a gun, let alone own one. So, it essentially comes back to "no guns on campus".

[mawilson 2,133]

I worry that instead of one mass shooting every year stopped, we'll have tiny little minor shootings on the weekends that won't make the papers but mean a higher yearly body count.

That's probably true, but I'd rather more people died in suicide attempts, breakups and jealous fights

than a murderous rampage such as Columbine or Virginia Tech.

Why? I ask this honestly. Surely it's not because you believe the domestic violence victim deserves it more than the kid who happened not to cut French that day. Murder is murder. So why are you okay with 45 dead kids per gun violence per annum, as long as they weren't victims of a rampage?

Because suicide attempts, breakups and jealous fights are things that people bring upon themselves.

Don't break up with a crazed jealous boyfriend and you won't get shot. Don't cheat on your girlfriend and you won't get shot.

If someone wants to commit suicide, it's their business.

Victims of a rampage don't have that choice.

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

Honestly, gun laws will probably be the tipping point for me in deciding to move to Canada one day. I just do not like the idea that the guy in the car riding my ### may have a .45 between the seats.

Also, I think the point of the mass murder v. murder suicide post is that the actual death count would be higher overall. Big picture, people.

[mawilson 2,133]

Do you think the likelihood of a murderous rampage goes up if access to guns is easier?

I personally don't. I don't have any statistics to back it up though.

[Caladan 19]

I worry that instead of one mass shooting every year stopped, we'll have tiny little minor shootings on the weekends that won't make the papers but mean a higher yearly body count.

That's probably true, but I'd rather more people died in suicide attempts, breakups and jealous fights

than a murderous rampage such as Columbine or Virginia Tech.

Why? I ask this honestly. Surely it's not because you believe the domestic violence victim deserves it more than the kid who happened not to cut French that day. Murder is murder. So why are you okay with 45 dead kids per gun violence per annum, as long as they weren't victims of a rampage?

Because suicide attempts, breakups and jealous fights are things that people bring upon themselves.

Don't break up with a crazed jealous boyfriend and you won't get shot. Don't cheat on your girlfriend and you won't get shot.

If someone wants to commit suicide, it's their business.

Victims of a rampage don't have that choice.

Are you kidding me? She should stay in an abusive relationship so she doesn't get shot?

Pretty high price to pay so someone else can hope for a school shooting where they're positioned to be Jack Bauer.

[Caladan 19]

Do you think the likelihood of a murderous rampage goes up if access to guns is easier?

I personally don't. I don't have any statistics to back it up though.

There aren't. But my intuitions cut the other way. I figure school shootings would stay at least as likely (minimal deterrence effect on a crazy person), that the chances that the armed people on campus are going to be in the right place at the right time to stop the shooter are small, and that the chances of what would have been a drunken fight turning violent are much higher.

[Peikko 1,575]

I agree with that, I don't see murderous rampages changing because there would be people on campus with conceal carry permits. I don't see that as being an increase in gun availablity. It's not as if it's difficult or expensive to obtain a gun legally or as if it would be simple to steal a gun from one of these guys. Statistically, murderous rampages are still highly unlikely.

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

The right to keep and bear arms is in the Constitution. I will always default to the Constitution. I have never fired a gun in my life. But the the guns are not the problem, the people are. If a crazy person wants to do damage to people there is many ways besides firearms to do it. But when they try, I pray to God that there is a responsible gun owner with a concealed carry permit that will stop him as quickly as possible.

What really bothers me is people that want to disregard the Constitution and take away people's rights. Then if I don't agree with your view I am the one portrayed as strange. When the Constitution is on my side not yours. Schools are not some sacred ground where the laws should be suspended. I do believe that guns should be allowed to responsible people, so that people that have ill thoughts may take a second thought about their plans.

[mawilson 2,133]

Are you kidding me? She should stay in an abusive relationship so she doesn't get shot?

Pretty high price to pay so someone else can hope for a school shooting where they're positioned to be Jack Bauer.

Millions of women stay in abusive relationships for fear of getting hurt - it's nothing new.

In an environment where guns are easily available, getting shot by a jealous boyfriend is

something you can *expect* if you know how crazy jealous your boyfriend is.

In contrast, you never know where the next mentally disturbed gunman is going to strike next.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

That map isn't entirely correct in the ABC news video because the gun legislation to put guns on college campuses was also being addressed in Idaho. From my knowledge it was being address the day of the IL shooting that happened.

ABC News Reports on Gun Legislation going to College Campuses

I feel that the sophisticated surveillance technology that they propose in the video for on campuses to protect us is a waste of time. It's like trying to predict who has mental health issues before purchasing a gun legally without actually checking. A better example would be looking for a needle in a haystack.

I've been thinking about it since the first gun control debate after the IL shooting and I feel what really needs to be done is a check into peoples mental health background before they are allowed to purchase guns legally.

The second is develop a program to get illegal guns and weapons off the streets. I know that getting illegal guns off the streets is a big knot to be undone but it now seems like that is something that is going to have to be done! If we can funnel time energy and money into illegal drug control we need to do this for illegal weapons control in America. It seems a bit out of control when Americans are having to take arms to defend themselves when we there law enforcement that is supposed to do this. At the same time I know that law enforcement can't be everywhere.

Thirdly if we're going to be having the people carry weapons for protection then there needs to be an educational reform. We need classes in the schools about predators and about proper safety with weapons. People often fear guns because they have no exposure to handling the weapons themselves. If they become familiar with them and are educated about proper handling then they would feel more empowered with the knowledge they gain. Level the status quo by allowing every man, woman, and child, the opportunity to defend themselves.

As far as predators go I'm talking about the "Don't Talk to Strangers" talk being instilled into school but advanced to this day and age and the monsters we live with. We have to educate and protect the innocent. Teach the children beyond the biology aspect of reproduction. Teach them the laws to protect themselves so that they have the knowledge themselves about what is legally right and what isn't so they can navigate out of difficult situations.

McDonalds Manager Forces Teen to Give #######

McDonalds Teen Story

In this video a man who has been making calls for 10 years to fast food restaurants posing as a police officer requests that a 16 year old be strip searched by her manager and then forced to preform various sexual acts. First the manager should have known that no police officer would request this especially without proper identification. If the 16 year old in this video had known she was a minor and that sex with a minor is illegal and that no law enforcement officer could request her to be strip search or do these kinds of acts especially without a parent or legal guardian present then she could have put her foot down and said, "Hell no, get my Mom and Dad. I am 16."

Like this teen said, "I'm underage you wait till my Momma gets here" in this video at around 1:41 when she was confronted by a real police officer Teen knowing her rights.

[isleta521 5]

I'm a pro-gun person. However, I don't think letting students have guns on campus is a very smart thing. 20 years ago? Yeah, it was fine then. I had a gun in my dorm room in college, as did many other students, and no one ever got shot. These days? I vote no. Kids don't seem to be as responsible as they used to be.

Faculty? Yep, I would allow professors to carry IF they were prepared to try to defend the students. There wouldn't be much call for it really, since most college professors are so far to the left that they lean when they walk. I'd bet most haven't even ever seen a gun, let alone own one. So, it essentially comes back to "no guns on campus".

Agreed!

I also happen to be very pro gun but also STRONGLY believe that guns have no place on any campus unless they are in the hands of security or law enforcement. To me it is sad that a place of higher learning (or any learning institution) has come to this.

Edited February 26, 2008 by isleta521

[Dan J 277]

The right to keep and bear arms is in the Constitution. I will always default to the Constitution. I have never fired a gun in my life. But the the guns are not the problem, the people are. If a crazy person wants to do damage to people there is many ways besides firearms to do it. But when they try, I pray to God that there is a responsible gun owner with a concealed carry permit that will stop him as quickly as possible.

What really bothers me is people that want to disregard the Constitution and take away people's rights. Then if I don't agree with your view I am the one portrayed as strange. When the Constitution is on my side not yours. Schools are not some sacred ground where the laws should be suspended. I do believe that guns should be allowed to responsible people, so that people that have ill thoughts may take a second thought about their plans.

A strict interpretation of the constitution, does not protect an individuals right to own guns. It only prevents the federal government from banning gun ownership of state militias, which in our current world, includes state police and state national guard.

Ironically, most conservatives support a more liberal interpretation of this amendment, but hate liberal interpretations of just about everything else.

[mawilson 2,133]

A strict interpretation of the constitution, does not protect an individuals right to own guns. It only prevents the federal government from banning gun ownership of state militias, which in our current world, includes state police and state national guard.

No way, dude. State militias are we, the people.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The right to keep and bear arms is in the Constitution. I will always default to the Constitution. I have never fired a gun in my life. But the the guns are not the problem, the people are. If a crazy person wants to do damage to people there is many ways besides firearms to do it. But when they try, I pray to God that there is a responsible gun owner with a concealed carry permit that will stop him as quickly as possible.

What really bothers me is people that want to disregard the Constitution and take away people's rights. Then if I don't agree with your view I am the one portrayed as strange. When the Constitution is on my side not yours. Schools are not some sacred ground where the laws should be suspended. I do believe that guns should be allowed to responsible people, so that people that have ill thoughts may take a second thought about their plans.

A strict interpretation of the constitution, does not protect an individuals right to own guns. It only prevents the federal government from banning gun ownership of state militias, which in our current world, includes state police and state national guard.

Ironically, most conservatives support a more liberal interpretation of this amendment, but hate liberal interpretations of just about everything else.

In this context bringing the constitution into it is a bit of a red herring IMO, given that the States essentially mandate how the "right to bear arms" is applied to local situations.

I do have to say that I very much doubt that someone planning a kill-crazy rampage would be put off their plan by concealed carry, considering that in the majority of these cases, the perps shoots themselves to avoid being apprehended by the police.

There is certainly a legitimate security concern, as Caladan pointed out - over how these weapons would be managed on college campuses. Lot of opportunities for things to fall into the wrong hands.

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

Has anyone ever considered that parts of the constitution may be outdated and harmful to americans? I think that's why they allow amendments. Anyway, I know that we, as a species, have learned and developed a LOT since the Constitution was drafted. To think that one room of people 220 years ago know the best way for society to function now is just silly.