Guns-on-campus bill advances in Senate

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Scott Wong

The Arizona Republic

Legislation that would allow people to carry guns on Arizona community-college or public-university campuses advanced Monday, 11 days after a gunman killed five people and himself in an Illinois university lecture hall.

Members of the Republican-led Senate Judiciary Committee passed the legislation along a party-line 4-3 vote. Democratic senators Ken Cheuvront, Albert Hale and Richard Miranda voted no.

Senate Bill 1214, which would allow concealed-weapons permit holders to carry a gun at community colleges and Arizona's three public universities, next heads to the Senate Rules Committee.

Gun owners must be 21 or older to obtain a permit.

Sen. Karen Johnson, the bill's lead sponsor, originally introduced legislation that would allow guns at all schools, including elementary, middle and high schools. But facing pressure from some Republican colleagues, the senator was forced to narrow the bill's scope to apply only to higher-education institutions.

"It's not the bill that I wanted because I still feel our little kindergartners are sitting there as sitting ducks," said Johnson, a Mesa Republican and Judiciary Committee member. But she added that the revised bill has a better chance of moving forward.

Cheuvront, a Phoenix Democrat and the only other committee member to explain his vote, said he didn't view schools "as a good place to have firearms whether that someone is deranged or happens to be a student or member of the faculty."

The committee last week heard more than two hours of intense testimony from both supporters and opponents of the measure.

Police chiefs from Arizona's three public universities - Arizona State University, University of Arizona and Northern Arizona University - said allowing guns on campuses could create greater confusion and lead to the loss of additional innocent lives when police respond to a school shooting. Officers could shoot the wrong person, they said.

On the other side of the issue were gun-rights advocates, who said the proposal would give students, teachers and administrators a way to protect themselves during a mass shooting. By the time police arrive on scene, supporters said, the bloodshed is usually over.

On Valentine's Day, Stephen Kazmierczak, 27, walked into a Northern Illinois University class and opened fire using a shotgun and two handguns.

By the time campus authorities reached the scene, the University of Illinois graduate student had killed five people, wounded 16 others and fatally shot himself.

Following Monday's vote, lobbyist Kendra Leiby of the Arizona Coalition of Domestic Violence said her group was disappointed by the Senate panel's decision, arguing that legalizing guns on campuses invites perpetrators to commit crimes.

John Wentling, vice president of the gun-rights group Arizona Citizens Defense League, also expressed disappointment, but for a different reason.

"By limiting the bill to colleges and universities, it says that school-age children aren't as valuable as college students," he said.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0226guns0226.html

[Ban Hammer 14,288]

this should be interesting

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

gun carry should be mandatory

[Sister Fracas 5]

[mawilson 2,133]

Good news.

[Ban Hammer 14,288]

poor you

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Doesn't it bother anyone else - this idea that carrying guns on a university campus should be considered "normal"?

I would like to think that carrying a gun on a campus would be considered "suspicious". If everyone is doing it - surely it gives the crazies a way to blend in with the crowd.

Typical though - the only way we can put out the fire is by tipping gasoline on it.

[Peikko 1,575]

The permit to carry owners don't want to protect others, they want to protect themselves, which is all fine and dandy until they use the 'campus will be safer' line, which is #######. Also, does it not really matter that the police appose the measure? I guess if you think the police are a bunch of useless idiots that argument washes, but personally I would rather go on what the law enforement professionals deem to be sensible.

[Caladan 19]

This feels like a band-aid of a solution (21 and older eliminates almost all undergrads from carrying anyway) likely to lead to more minor shootings.

Do the campuses include the dorms? Because being at a university, my biggest worry is not that a mass school shooting will occur, but that a drunken or high undergrad shoots himself and his girlfriend, or commits suicide over an exam grade because his roommate's gun is so handy, or snaps and decides to take out a prof over a low grade. Maybe a mass shooter gets killed by a Jack Bauer. That would be awesome, but they don't happen all that often as suicide attempts and breakups and jealous fights and bad grades. I worry that instead of one mass shooting every year stopped, we'll have tiny little minor shootings on the weekends that won't make the papers but mean a higher yearly body count.

Seriously, I had one course where I had at least three students suffering from severe mental health issues. Talking at the walls crazy. I'm glad there weren't guns around to make the decision to kill just that much easier.

[mawilson 2,133]

Doesn't it bother anyone else - this idea that carrying guns on a university campus should be considered "normal"?

Doesn't bother me; in fact, I'd probably feel safer.

I don't think it would work in England though...

[mawilson 2,133]

I worry that instead of one mass shooting every year stopped, we'll have tiny little minor shootings on the weekends that won't make the papers but mean a higher yearly body count.

That's probably true, but I'd rather more people died in suicide attempts, breakups and jealous fights

than a murderous rampage such as Columbine or Virginia Tech.

[Sister Fracas 5]

The permit to carry owners don't want to protect others, they want to protect themselves, which is all fine and dandy until they use the 'campus will be safer' line, which is #######. Also, does it not really matter that the police appose the measure? I guess if you think the police are a bunch of useless idiots that argument washes, but personally I would rather go on what the law enforement professionals deem to be sensible.

Seems some gun owners want it both ways... I remember distinctly in the last big thread on this that gun owners said they just wanted to protect themselves... so what happens when they are NOT in the classroom where the shooting takes place? Are they or are they not going to run to the aid of others in danger?

[mawilson 2,133]

This just in:

Va. college on lockdown after suspicious man reported

[Caladan 19]

I worry that instead of one mass shooting every year stopped, we'll have tiny little minor shootings on the weekends that won't make the papers but mean a higher yearly body count.

That's probably true, but I'd rather more people died in suicide attempts, breakups and jealous fights

than a murderous rampage such as Columbine or Virginia Tech.

Why? I ask this honestly. Surely it's not because you believe the domestic violence victim deserves it more than the kid who happened not to cut French that day. Murder is murder. So why are you okay with 45 dead kids per gun violence per annum, as long as they weren't victims of a rampage?

Do you think the likelihood of a murderous rampage goes up if access to guns is easier? I'm not worried about the concealed carry holders; they're responsible. But they also live in dorms, which aren't as secure as a private residence or apartments. Usually a roommate, sometimes a suitemate of several. Is a murderous rampage more likely if the insane kid doesn't have to go and procure a weapon, but just break into a dorm room?

I'm not sure I know the answers to these questions, but I think the best response of universities to these shootings has been in the warning systems they've developed. If VA Tech had been able to notify students about the first shooting, Cho would have been shooting at an empty classroom.

[Dan J 277]

So now, instead of a deranged individual having to buy a gun before going on a rampage, he just needs to find someone carrying and steal the gun from them.

With more fuel on the fire, i guess some would rather rely on natural selection to take care of the problem.