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[morocco4ever 63]

Maybe you can't understand the mentality because its a old fashioned set of thinking. Now days maybe they will accept but sometimes they are not happy. Sometimes they wanted that same typical wife to speak full arabic, not to have so much education, etc...I don't want to offend anyone but this is the true mentality if you ask any mother or father there. Sometimes you will come across one family who only cares for the sons or daughters happiness. I personally I would want my child to marry in Algeria.

I don't think this is limited to Algerian (or MENA) thinking. We've heard many a story right here of how American families sometimes have a hard time accepting the foreign spouse. It's always hoped that they come to love you as they get to know you and see how you treat their child.

One of our israeli friends (who was born in the US - israeli parents) is dating an american girl, shes perfectly nice and going through the conversion (to judaism) process. Orthodox conversion at that. His parents will not accept her and will not come to the wedding! (as of now) They are pissed because she isnt israeli or at least jewish from birth. I sure hope they come around.

My mother probably would be not accepting if I was a lesbian, or married another race. Its really sad. I will be happy with whoever my children marry (as long as they are good peeps)

Is it common to convert? I mean I know that girl from Sex in the City did it but don't you have to go through a lot to convince the community or the rabbi that you're sincere? I grew up and still live in a predominantly Jewish town and in high school the boys who were jewish would not date the girls who weren't because their families wouldn't accept it if it progressed to something serious. I was told it is because you can only be jewish if your mother is jewish. Is that true or did the boys just not really like me? lol

most people marrying israelis convert. i would go out on a limb to say that close to all people marrying practicing orthodox or conservative jews convert. some people marrying reform jews convert and some remain "interfaith". orthodox and conservative do not accept interfaith hence the conversions. israelis tend to follow orthodox/traditional views. of course there are those who are israeli or grew up orthodox or conservative but are now completely not religious at all and will remain interfaith (or no faith). it is tradition for the rabbi to reject you three times to test your sincerity and many rabbis dont deal with conversions (so they might just be rejecting you period). your children are only jewish if the mother is jewish either through birth or conversion. i think its the same in islam but with the father? can a muslim woman marry a non muslim man who converts and have muslim kids?

Oh ok it must be the rejecting 3 times that is the hard part. The muslim woman marrying the converted muslim man question is up for grabs because it will spark a whole muslim women can marry non-muslim men thing. lol. But yes converted is converted so the children would be muslim.

Things there are very different than here. For instance, my husband asked me how much money so and so makes. I told him I don't know, it isn't right to ask a person that question. He was amazed. He said that they ask that question all of the time there. I am sure this is just the tip of the iceberg but I am still learning.

One other note, I know a butt load of Iraqi men where I live. I have known then for 10 years now. They may be here, but they are all the same. They are constantly gossiping about each other, and their wives, girlfriends, etc. My ex knew places I was going a year after we broke up. It seems his friends had seen me and didn't waste a minute to call him on the phone to report in. Not only that, he told me himself when we were still together that this is what would happen.

Lets just say I stay away from any place that I think they might be.

israelis always ask how much you make and how much you paid for things. i am very secretive on stuff like that and it annoys the heck out of me. i always say "alot" or "not too much" then of course unless they are really obnoxious they dont want to keep pushing the question.

And then there's the opposites like my oldest sister who tells EVERYONE what she paid for EVERYTHING she wears. REading that it would seem that she's arrogant but she shops at second hand stores almost exclusively so it's more like, "oh I love that coat!" and before you can finish your sentence she's all "it only cost me 50 cents!!!".

hahahaha...well apparently she's not a snob!

[sandinista! 1,816]

I agree.

Yes, Egypt is like Morocco in that way. You can't even pass gas without the neighbors knowing about it there. Really invasive society. Personally, that would drive me insane.

I think they're seeing if someone is going to slip up and give some sort of indication that the marriage is only for papers. I don't know if Egypt is like Morocco in this way, but it seems like neighbors know each other's business much more so than here.

OMG......

This is soooo true! My husband is amazed at how no one here really cares about stupid things like they do there. I think it is because there is no work giving each other too much time to "entertain" themselves with other peoples lives. What a freaking waste of time.

how very, very false, and ethnocentric.

Ethnocentric? Funny how I said it is my husband, the Moroccan, that said this. Perhaps he is prejudice about himself. Strange that he proudly tells everyone he is from Morocco. Not to mention that I stated that it is because there is no work. I would think that suggests a persons situation not culture. We live in an area that has a very low unemployment rate, therefore no time to meddle.

Well I agree with you , gossiping is the #1 sport in many MENA countries.

what stereotyping!

Actually its more of a reality there because of the way the family unit is structured. There is no such thing as "this is my life and I'll do what I want", no secrets. Everything is out in the open therefore people will naturally talk about it. I think this is the one thing that got on my nerves the most when I was there.

on the other hand, societies this "invasive" tend to be more close knit and in tune with each other-a rather helpful thing when individuals have a problem or are in need, because it's seen as affecting society as a whole, not just that individual. there can be definite benefits and advantages to that kind of society, and most of the time people see this kind of meddling as a given-and people act accordingly. it goes well beyond entertainment purposes though, or just gossip, even if that happens a lot. but maybe it's just easier to categorize the way other people live as just a "freaking waste of time".

[♥JP♥ 5]

on the other hand, societies this "invasive" tend to be more close knit and in tune with each other-a rather helpful thing when individuals have a problem or are in need, because it's seen as affecting society as a whole, not just that individual. there can be definite benefits and advantages to that kind of society, and most of the time people see this kind of meddling as a given-and people act accordingly. it goes well beyond entertainment purposes though, or just gossip, even if that happens a lot. but maybe it's just easier to categorize the way other people live as just a "freaking waste of time".

Close knit yes, families that is. However you aren't look at the flip side of this. Its not so much the family "meddling" that creates the problem, its the fact that nothing is kept secret. So if they tell a friend or neighbor and that person tells someone else, it keeps going and going. And similar to an old fashioned game of telephone the facts get distorted and often hurt the person involved. Maybe you don't think its a waste of time but maybe you haven't lived through it. I have seen girls that often get passed by for marriage because of a rumor that some guy started that all of sudden becomes fact. Things can get very crazy very fast.

[sandinista! 1,816]

on the other hand, societies this "invasive" tend to be more close knit and in tune with each other-a rather helpful thing when individuals have a problem or are in need, because it's seen as affecting society as a whole, not just that individual. there can be definite benefits and advantages to that kind of society, and most of the time people see this kind of meddling as a given-and people act accordingly. it goes well beyond entertainment purposes though, or just gossip, even if that happens a lot. but maybe it's just easier to categorize the way other people live as just a "freaking waste of time".

Close knit yes, families that is. However you aren't look at the flip side of this. Its not so much the family "meddling" that creates the problem, its the fact that nothing is kept secret. So if they tell a friend or neighbor and that person tells someone else, it keeps going and going. And similar to an old fashioned game of telephone the facts get distorted and often hurt the person involved. Maybe you don't think its a waste of time but maybe you haven't lived through it. I have seen girls that often get passed by for marriage because of a rumor that some guy started that all of sudden becomes fact. Things can get very crazy very fast.

yes, but are you insinuating that this is unique to the area? because it isn't.

[♥JP♥ 5]

on the other hand, societies this "invasive" tend to be more close knit and in tune with each other-a rather helpful thing when individuals have a problem or are in need, because it's seen as affecting society as a whole, not just that individual. there can be definite benefits and advantages to that kind of society, and most of the time people see this kind of meddling as a given-and people act accordingly. it goes well beyond entertainment purposes though, or just gossip, even if that happens a lot. but maybe it's just easier to categorize the way other people live as just a "freaking waste of time".

Close knit yes, families that is. However you aren't look at the flip side of this. Its not so much the family "meddling" that creates the problem, its the fact that nothing is kept secret. So if they tell a friend or neighbor and that person tells someone else, it keeps going and going. And similar to an old fashioned game of telephone the facts get distorted and often hurt the person involved. Maybe you don't think its a waste of time but maybe you haven't lived through it. I have seen girls that often get passed by for marriage because of a rumor that some guy started that all of sudden becomes fact. Things can get very crazy very fast.

yes, but are you insinuating that this is unique to the area? because it isn't.

I never said it was unique to the area. I said it happens in that area and in many parts of the middle east. That doesn't make it unique so don't put words in my mouth.

[sandinista! 1,816]

what part of ? wasn't clear? and it goes well beyond the middle east. in this country, the top selling publications have nothing but the interference into other people's personal lives as their subject matter. interfering into other people's personal lives is one of the most lucrative businesses in this country. but, really, "no one cares about stupid things here like they do there".

[♥JP♥ 5]

what part of ? wasn't clear? and it goes well beyond the middle east. in this country, the top selling publications have nothing but the interference into other people's personal lives as their subject matter. interfering into other people's personal lives is one of the most lucrative businesses in this country. but, really, "no one cares about stupid things here like they do there".

Did I ever say it only happens in the Middle East? NOPE But this forum is about MENA so its only natural that we discuss MENA.

[sandinista! 1,816]

a comparison was being made in the original post i quoted between here (usa) and there (mena). that's what i've been on about since i first posted in this thread. you said you agreed with her...so what is it you were agreeing with exactly? some sort of false smugness that americans aren't as absurdly intrusive into other people's lives as anyone in mena? because that's patently false and ridiculous.

[♥JP♥ 5]

a comparison was being made in the original post i quoted between here (usa) and there (mena). that's what i've been on about since i first posted in this thread. you said you agreed with her...so what is it you were agreeing with exactly? some sort of false smugness that americans aren't as absurdly intrusive into other people's lives as anyone in mena? because that's patently false and ridiculous.

Have you been to the Middle East? Do you have any Middle Eastern relative or any way to make a fair comparison? Or are you just going out of your way to be rude?

[sandinista! 1,816]

a comparison was being made in the original post i quoted between here (usa) and there (mena). that's what i've been on about since i first posted in this thread. you said you agreed with her...so what is it you were agreeing with exactly? some sort of false smugness that americans aren't as absurdly intrusive into other people's lives as anyone in mena? because that's patently false and ridiculous.

[♥JP♥ 5]

a comparison was being made in the original post i quoted between here (usa) and there (mena). that's what i've been on about since i first posted in this thread. you said you agreed with her...so what is it you were agreeing with exactly? some sort of false smugness that americans aren't as absurdly intrusive into other people's lives as anyone in mena? because that's patently false and ridiculous.

Have you been to the Middle East? Do you have any Middle Eastern relative or any way to make a fair comparison? Or are you just going out of your way to be rude?

SNIP

Yeah thats what I thought, just being rude. You have no basis for your argument. At least the people here involved in this discussion have something to compare in their personal experiance. Yet you always seem to come out of the woodwork to argue about something you have not experianced first hand.

[sandinista! 1,816]

if yr going to go that route, why don't you ask morocco_4_ever's husband if he's got any american relatives or any way to make "fair comparisons" since the guy's been here, what, 14 months? if yr agreeing with him, shouldn't the same standard apply, if yr going to ask me that?

[♥JP♥ 5]

if yr going to go that route, why don't you ask morocco_4_ever's husband if he's got any american relatives or any way to make "fair comparisons" since the guy's been here, what, 14 months? if yr agreeing with him, shouldn't the same standard apply, if yr going to ask me that?

Let's see, his wife is AMERICAN. Does that qualify as family for you? I'm quite sure he has met several of her family members/friends as well. I think the 14 months he is basing his opinion on is better than basing it on nothing.

No one ever said this didnt happen anywhere else, surely it does. However we can only discuss our experiances with it and it just so happens our experiance is in MENA. I'm sure there are plenty of small towns where this kinda stuff happens too but where I live, I don't even know my neighbors. So the MENA way of life is very different from what I am used to here and what I have experianced. And basically it comes down to that, personal experiance.

[morocco4ever 63]

if yr going to go that route, why don't you ask morocco_4_ever's husband if he's got any american relatives or any way to make "fair comparisons" since the guy's been here, what, 14 months? if yr agreeing with him, shouldn't the same standard apply, if yr going to ask me that?

Yes he does.

[morocco4ever 63]

if yr going to go that route, why don't you ask morocco_4_ever's husband if he's got any american relatives or any way to make "fair comparisons" since the guy's been here, what, 14 months? if yr agreeing with him, shouldn't the same standard apply, if yr going to ask me that?

Let's see, his wife is AMERICAN. Does that qualify as family for you? I'm quite sure he has met several of her family members/friends as well. I think the 14 months he is basing his opinion on is better than basing it on nothing.

No one ever said this didnt happen anywhere else, surely it does. However we can only discuss our experiances with it and it just so happens our experiance is in MENA. I'm sure there are plenty of small towns where this kinda stuff happens too but where I live, I don't even know my neighbors. So the MENA way of life is very different from what I am used to here and what I have experianced. And basically it comes down to that, personal experiance.

Come on JP...what could you possibly know about the culture over there?? What, you would almost think you are..............ARABIC!

Perhaps ta me go hiontach lives in a neighborhood similar to the small towns in the MENA that has nothing more to do than gossip and create problems. Its all just geography. I was basing it on my husbands city to mine, thats all.