OT: Russian Language Lessons

[eekee 182]

No one's situation is the same.

I know... I was just saying that not everyone fits into seanconneryii's example of needing to be taught from the beginning by an SO.

Would you say that your french helped you, russ? i took spanish for nine years (although I had stopped taking it for year by the time i began russian) and i thought it hurt me more than helped me, although i know that there are many loan words from french that became part of the russian vernacular.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

I understand where it could be a tall order for some. (Some couples can't operate in a teacher-student relationship.) However, I learned more from my Alla in one year living with her in Russia than in the rest of the other four years self-studying. Alla has no problem teaching me Russian anymore than I have improving her English. We will have better things to spend our time and cash on than third-party lessons when she arrives. It will remain a priority in our lives, to teach each other, until we are both where we wish to be.

so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

No one's situation is the same. In our case, my wife has no time to teach me Russian. She hates it. Both of us speak English fluently, her Russian is native while mine is good enough, my French is good, her German could use some help.

It comes down to this: If you have learned another language, another is not a big deal (you know what is involved, and it doesn't bother you.) If not, don't bother. You probably won't like what you need to do.

At this point, my Russian is horrible. It improves when I'm actually there, since I will be speaking it all of the time. In that way, it is about the same as my French - it gets better when I actually use it. I can understand 95% of what people say, and read with decent comprehension. I understand what my wife is saying on the phone (drives her crazy), but at the same time it bothered her when I spoke French and she couldn't understand what I was saying.

Expecting your spouse to teach you is a tall order. It probably won't happen.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Kazan' Tiger

[Jason-Sasha 1]

I understand where it could be a tall order for some. (Some couples can't operate in a teacher-student relationship.) However, I learned more from my Alla in one year living with her in Russia than in the rest of the other four years self-studying. Alla has no problem teaching me Russian anymore than I have improving her English. We will have better things to spend our time and cash on than third-party lessons when she arrives. It will remain a priority in our lives, to teach each other, until we are both where we wish to be.

so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

No one's situation is the same. In our case, my wife has no time to teach me Russian. She hates it. Both of us speak English fluently, her Russian is native while mine is good enough, my French is good, her German could use some help.

It comes down to this: If you have learned another language, another is not a big deal (you know what is involved, and it doesn't bother you.) If not, don't bother. You probably won't like what you need to do.

At this point, my Russian is horrible. It improves when I'm actually there, since I will be speaking it all of the time. In that way, it is about the same as my French - it gets better when I actually use it. I can understand 95% of what people say, and read with decent comprehension. I understand what my wife is saying on the phone (drives her crazy), but at the same time it bothered her when I spoke French and she couldn't understand what I was saying.

Expecting your spouse to teach you is a tall order. It probably won't happen.

Personally, I don't see why any of us would need to buy an expensive English or Russian language learning device. We have something better than these courses. We have our SO's. I know Sasha will teach me the entire Russian language over the next few decades. For free.

[eekee 182]

Personally, I don't see why any of us would need to buy an expensive English or Russian language learning device. We have something better than these courses. We have our SO's. I know Sasha will teach me the entire Russian language over the next few decades. For free.

I think your SO would only be better if they're a trained pedagogue. Plus I wouldn't want to have to wait decades to be fluent in Russian!

[Jason-Sasha 1]

Personally, I don't see why any of us would need to buy an expensive English or Russian language learning device. We have something better than these courses. We have our SO's. I know Sasha will teach me the entire Russian language over the next few decades. For free.

I think your SO would only be better if they're a trained pedagogue. Plus I wouldn't want to have to wait decades to be fluent in Russian!

Haha! Yes, you're right. Thankfully, my Sasha is a professional linguist. She doesn't think so, but she's quite modest....most of the time! She's a professional translator and script editor/writer for Sony Pictures. She's pretty fluent in several languages. So, I'm sure I will get a better education from her than any store bought course. Hell, I'm pretty sure she knows more about the rules of English grammar, than I do.

[eekee 182]

Haha! Yes, you're right. Thankfully, my Sasha is a professional linguist. She doesn't think so, but she's quite modest....most of the time! She's a professional translator and script editor/writer for Sony Pictures. She's pretty fluent in several languages. So, I'm sure I will get a better education from her than any store bought course. Hell, I'm pretty sure she knows more about the rules of English grammar, than I do.

I've noticed she writes very well in her posts. My guy has his degree in computer science, not linguistics, so he would be a really good teacher if i wanted to learn a language like c++ or java, but for Russian he can only tell me what he would say, but not really why he says it that way.

[slim 1,533]

You make some good points and I hear you...but remember there's a big difference in your wife speaking native Russian to another native Russian and teaching you and listening to your struggling novice Russian. I think she'll appreciate the effort but maybe she'll find it tiring and distracting as well... switching from student to teacher. But you're right, time will tell and you can make adjustments as you go. And you may be gifted and a natural at picking it up.

My guy really likes speaking Russian to me. But I'm 2 months away from a Bachelors in Russian, so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

They're not going to have a common language already. She's going to have to pick up English. In the relationships where there's a good understanding of either language, you can be more selective. But, in the scenario where she comes here with minimal English and he's been a one-language person forever, there's definitely going to be no "lessons" in Russian. Sure, he'll pick up some words and phrases but the majority of learning, by simple necessity, will be English only.

"Russ" (I messed up quotes... sorry)

It comes down to this: If you have learned another language, another is not a big deal (you know what is involved, and it doesn't bother you.) If not, don't bother. You probably won't like what you need to do.

At this point, my Russian is horrible. It improves when I'm actually there, since I will be speaking it all of the time. In that way, it is about the same as my French - it gets better when I actually use it. I can understand 95% of what people say, and read with decent comprehension. I understand what my wife is saying on the phone (drives her crazy), but at the same time it bothered her when I spoke French and she couldn't understand what I was saying.

Expecting your spouse to teach you is a tall order. It probably won't happen.

"End Russ"

Personally, I don't see why any of us would need to buy an expensive English or Russian language learning device. We have something better than these courses. We have our SO's. I know Sasha will teach me the entire Russian language over the next few decades. For free.

See what Russ said (inside your quote... I messed that up. Sorry.) about having your S/O teach you. Their abilities and qualifications really don't matter too much when it comes to teaching you. When you learn a foreign language, it jogs your brain into "communication" mode and learning other languages is easier. However, it's more up to you than your S/O and even though they can try to teach you to fluency, it's more up to you how far you'll go.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

:lol:

For all you guys who say getting Russian tutoring is a waste of time, you're just not doing it right. From my lesson last night:

Me: Olga, do you know what a Russian pirate's favorite food is?

Olga: No.

Me: YARRRRRR-bla-kah!

Olga: [Confused, slightly nervous look]

Apparently Pirate jokes don't translate well to Russian. Their loss.

[slim 1,533]

She's going to have to start charging you more.

[Bobalouie 0]

Anyone (ekee maybe?) have a good online resource for learning (and bonus, retaining) Russian cases? I'm having the worst time keeping it all straight.

I found something on another message board that is pretty informative. Here is the best that I can do:

(the) verb is the action word of the sentence. It expresses the action of the sentence. Ex., I see, know, hear, go, etc. я вижу, знаю, слышу, хожу.

(the) adverb modifies the action of the verb somehow and normally in Russian precedes the verb. I badly understand. я плохо понимаю.

(the) subject answers to question who/кто or what/что is doing the action. It is found in the nominative case or "name" case.

(the) possession of someone or something is found in the genitive case and answers the question of whom/кого or of what/чего.

(the) indirect object of the verb is indirectly affected by the action of the verb. It is found in the dative case and is usually answers the question to/for whom/кому or to/for what/чему.

(the) direct object of the verb is directly affected by the verb and is found in the accusative case and answers the question whom/кого or what/что.

(the) instrumental case shows the instrument or manner the action of the verb is accomplished and answers the question by/with whom/кем or by means of/with what/чем.

(the) prepositional case is the case of place/location and answers the question about/concerning/where of someone/о ком or something/о чем. This case usage is never without a preposition. Remember this case answers the question where/где.

Hope that helps ya mox.

[Bobalouie 0]

and here is another i thought of mox. It has helped me from time to time:

An online reference for Russian grammar

[eekee 182]

Don't forget that genitive also shows non-existence: u nac net nichego. You also have to know things which are different in russian: in russian, you "call to" someone and "help to" someone: the person you are calling or helping will be in the dative, not the accusative as an english speaker might expect. There are lots of other special uses governed by certain verbs and prepositions.

All of the cases have many more uses than shown here... I like a book called (i think) russian grammar by nicholas maltzoff as my quick reference.

Anyone (ekee maybe?) have a good online resource for learning (and bonus, retaining) Russian cases? I'm having the worst time keeping it all straight.

I found something on another message board that is pretty informative. Here is the best that I can do:

(the) verb is the action word of the sentence. It expresses the action of the sentence. Ex., I see, know, hear, go, etc. ? ????, ????, ?????, ????.

(the) adverb modifies the action of the verb somehow and normally in Russian precedes the verb. I badly understand. ? ????? ???????.

(the) subject answers to question who/??? or what/??? is doing the action. It is found in the nominative case or "name" case.

(the) possession of someone or something is found in the genitive case and answers the question of whom/???? or of what/????.

(the) indirect object of the verb is indirectly affected by the action of the verb. It is found in the dative case and is usually answers the question to/for whom/???? or to/for what/????.

(the) direct object of the verb is directly affected by the verb and is found in the accusative case and answers the question whom/???? or what/???.

(the) instrumental case shows the instrument or manner the action of the verb is accomplished and answers the question by/with whom/??? or by means of/with what/???.

(the) prepositional case is the case of place/location and answers the question about/concerning/where of someone/? ??? or something/? ???. This case usage is never without a preposition. Remember this case answers the question where/???.

Hope that helps ya mox.

[slim 1,533]

the person you are calling or helping will be in the dative, not the accusative as an english speaker might expect.

This is where I have to start paying attention. My Latin training kicks in pretty normally with the accusative but I have to retrain it into the dative.

Usually I just kind of slur the endings and it works just fine. Try that next time. ooh and ah sound a lot alike when you have a Twix in your mouth.

"Ya poshla magazinaauuhhhmmmmmcrunchuuamchomuuuah."

They get the picture.

The same works for guy/girl stuff. If I had time to change the a to an o or l or whatever, I'd never get to eat my Twix.

[slim 1,533]

Maybe "The Total Fucktard's Guide to Russian will have an even better section..."

Oh...and just wanted to add that the further I get into this, the more I realize what a load of ####### Rosetta Stone is. It's not just overpriced, I'm seeing that it actually has disadvantaged me to an extent. I'm constantly "un-learning" things.

As soon as you write it, I'll buy a copy!

I see a lot of people who are "above" things like the idiots guides (or fucktards guides, what-have-you) and are unwilling to utilize good resources because they feel like they're being looked down upon for doing them. I've tried for years to get my buddies to read children's books in foreign languages and they just won't do it. I don't know why... maybe because they're fucktards? Anyway though, when you're trying to learn from a base of nothing, you need to start with the simplest stuff and work your way up.

And on the "un-learning" things, there's no substitute for first-hand knowledge. Or for paying hundreds of dollars for a training program used by the U.S. Army, the State Department, etc. We all see how efficiently their operators work, huh?

"FACE TOWARD ENEMY"

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Fucktard...

I think you just like saying "fucktard," slim.