OT: Russian Language Lessons

[mox 298]

I just wish we'd all switch to one language. When are we going to be a global population?

It was tried. Esperanto. It may come as no surprise that William Shatner actually starred in an all-Esperanto movie back in the '60's. Here's a clip.

And for goodness sakes, can we start using the metric system already?

Can I get an amen!?

[slim 1,514]

I think for ease of worldwide use, it would have to be a language already in common usage.

Chinese wouldn't be a bad choice as something like one-in-five already speak it.

However, a language like Spanish, English or German would probably be easier for the whole world to use because of it's prevalence already on marketed goods and in films, etc. And the abundance of training resources. (Not that the Chinese couldn't easily produce them overnight!)

And metric system all the way. Perhaps maybe we can e-mail one of the candidates and get them to run on the "Metric System in '08" campaign.

[eekee 182]

I would never say сука when actually talking about a dog. собака is the neutral term for a dog. the analogous phrase of сука is кобель. I hope you were trying to trick mox into embarassing himself in front of his tutor cause everyone knows that сука generally means something VERY different. :)

Also, кот is tomcat and is used the same way as tomcat is in english. Кошка, while it does mean girlcat, is used more often. It's also more endearing towards cats. So it's really personal preference, but it's not like you can only say кот when referring to cats in general. you can use either, with кошка being more common, in my experience. And also big cats (lions tigers etc.) are семейство кошачьих.

I think rosetta stone is a big waste of money for the reasons mox mentioned. yeah, it's based on the theory of teaching it like you learned your first language... but you're not a child anymore and you need to actually, you know, study and learn the rules of grammar.

And the metric system is the best. It makes so much more sense. I wish America would realize this.

This why I dropped Rosetta Stone. You actually made be feel (Excuse me, I chose to feel, in case AKDiver is reading) better about my Russian abilities.

The only way, in my opinion, to learn Russian is from a Russian. Having lived with my Alla in Russia for my year was phenomenal in helping me learn the distinctions you speak about.

Oh, in case she asks about a dog...

male = собака

female = сука

Oh and Slim, I'm all for the metric system. I really wish we could all be on the same page for that one.

Edited February 28, 2008 by eekee

[mox 298]

I would never say сука when actually talking about a dog. собака is the neutral term for a dog. the analogous phrase of сука is кобель. I hope you were trying to trick mox into embarassing himself in front of his tutor cause everyone knows that сука generally means something VERY different. :)

Hehe, yeah I don't think he meant to trick me, but I do know the "alternate" meaning of сука (having read "Dermo" ), and would have been pretty leery about using it. Fortunately she has a great sense of humor, so the worst that would have happened is she'd have got a good laugh.

Also, кот is tomcat and is used the same way as tomcat is in english. Кошка, while it does mean girlcat, is used more often. It's also more endearing towards cats. So it's really personal preference, but it's not like you can only say кот when referring to cats in general. you can use either, with кошка being more common, in my experience. And also big cats (lions tigers etc.) are семейство кошачьих.

My tutor is from Ukraine. She says кот is used more often. Maybe it is a regional difference? It doesn't matter too much I suppose, either way someone is going to know what I'm talking about, and that's my biggest priority. I want to be understood. Maybe later I will try to learn to pass myself off as a Muscovite. (and dear god, I hope I don't have to remember "семейство кошачьих" any time soon! )

I think rosetta stone is a big waste of money for the reasons mox mentioned. yeah, it's based on the theory of teaching it like you learned your first language... but you're not a child anymore and you need to actually, you know, study and learn the rules of grammar.

Rosetta Stone might be good to augment books and instruction, but for that function it is way over-priced. If it were more tailored to teaching fundamentals it would be much better. But their format is very generic, and they try to fit the same pictures to all languages. So maybe one set of pictures will work well for German, but they don't make much sense for Russian. And sometimes I would come across a picture that showed a man doing the same thing as a previous picture, but the word was different or slightly different. And there is no explanation, leaving me to wonder what I'm missing.

[eekee 182]

I would never say сука when actually talking about a dog. собака is the neutral term for a dog. the analogous phrase of сука is кобель. I hope you were trying to trick mox into embarassing himself in front of his tutor cause everyone knows that сука generally means something VERY different. :)

Hehe, yeah I don't think he meant to trick me, but I do know the "alternate" meaning of сука (having read "Dermo" ), and would have been pretty leery about using it. Fortunately she has a great sense of humor, so the worst that would have happened is she'd have got a good laugh.

Also, кот is tomcat and is used the same way as tomcat is in english. Кошка, while it does mean girlcat, is used more often. It's also more endearing towards cats. So it's really personal preference, but it's not like you can only say кот when referring to cats in general. you can use either, with кошка being more common, in my experience. And also big cats (lions tigers etc.) are семейство кошачьих.

My tutor is from Ukraine. She says кот is used more often. Maybe it is a regional difference? It doesn't matter too much I suppose, either way someone is going to know what I'm talking about, and that's my biggest priority. I want to be understood. Maybe later I will try to learn to pass myself off as a Muscovite. (and dear god, I hope I don't have to remember "семейство кошачьих" any time soon! )

Yeah there are definitely some differences between russian in ukraine and russian in russia. I have mostly been taught petersburg russian (getting my bachelors in russian in may), and i say дождь the petersburg way as "дошт'" whereas in moscow i think they just say it the way it looks, so even between spb and moscow there are differences. Whenever i speak with my friend who moved to the us from odessa when she was five there's some usage differences which crop up. For instance, in russia you use тарелка to refer to plates AND bowls, and there is no separate word for bowl used. but Ukrainians who speak Russian do say миска for bowl, according to my friend. And they use a different word for eggplant. But yeah, generally russians have low standards for americans learning russian so it's not a huge concern. they generally appreciate the effort (rather than people who come to russia and try to conduct everything in english and don't understand why the guy at mcdonalds doesn't understand when they try to order a quarter pounder meal and don't thank people who translate for them, like me) and many russians find american accents in russian to be super cute.

Edited February 28, 2008 by eekee

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Me trick someone? Okay, actually, yes, I was being "cute". Just wanted to see how long it took for someone to correct me. Rather quickly, I see!

FWIW, in Kazan', кошка is used most often from what I've heard.

Hehe, yeah I don't think he meant to trick me, but I do know the "alternate" meaning of сука (having read "Dermo" ), and would have been pretty leery about using it. Fortunately she has a great sense of humor, so the worst that would have happened is she'd have got a good laugh.

[Bobalouie 0]

I hear Kishka in Sochi mostly, but I believe that is the word for kitten, if I am not mistaken.

[slim 1,514]

they try to fit the same pictures to all languages. So maybe one set of pictures will work well for German, but they don't make much sense for Russian.

From what I could tell, Russians and Germans like looking at the same pictures....

I have mostly been taught petersburg russian (getting my bachelors in russian in may), and i say дождь the petersburg way as "дошт'" whereas in moscow i think they just say it the way it looks, so even between spb and moscow there are differences.

When we were buying tickets to the Kremlin museum they tried to make my fiancee buy "foreigner" tickets because her Far East accent wasn't "Moscow" enough. (That and she was with an ugly fat guy, so that kind of gave it away.)

[eekee 182]

When we were buying tickets to the Kremlin museum they tried to make my fiancee buy "foreigner" tickets because her Far East accent wasn't "Moscow" enough. (That and she was with an ugly fat guy, so that kind of gave it away.)

i had a student id, so i always paid the russian student price, which was usually 0 roubles. my guy also tries to pay the student price and says he left his id at home. never works.

[mox 298]

True language lesson stories, part...whatever.

Had another language lesson last night, and my tutor (Olga) wanted me to read a paragraph from a language book. So I'm reading along, and I come to this sentence (or similar, I may not have it exactly right):

Нина есть дети.

And I stopped and looked up. And then I said to her..."oh my god. Nina eats children!"

She was laughing so hard we had to take a 5 minute break. Note to self: мягкий знак makes a difference.

[eekee 182]

У Нины есть дети. "Nina eats children" would be Нина ест детей, because children are animate. Although now that I think about it, if they were eaten they wouldn't be animate for long.

I hate the verb есть in the sense of "to eat"... i always forget how to conjugate it.

[russ 1]

(2) My wife charges just $15 an hour for in person lessons if you are in the Davis, CA area, yeah, we moved a few months ago. If that helps any in terms of comparison.

I pay about $300/semester for 4 hour courses at the University. This is for 4 hours a week with a PhD in teaching Russian as a foreign language from Moscow State University, for 16 weeks. I think that this is the most cost effective way to go.

Private tutors are great, but they don't generally have the time to prepare lesson plans, go over homework, etc. I would look at tutors as something in addition to a classroom environment, which tends to be most effective.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

We always use the verb кушать for eating. Maybe it's a local thing. I never heard anyone use есть in Kazan' to say they eat.

У Нины есть дети. "Nina eats children" would be Нина ест детей, because children are animate. Although now that I think about it, if they were eaten they wouldn't be animate for long.

I hate the verb есть in the sense of "to eat"... i always forget how to conjugate it.

[mox 298]

Private tutors are great, but they don't generally have the time to prepare lesson plans, go over homework, etc. I would look at tutors as something in addition to a classroom environment, which tends to be most effective.

Possibly...if you live in an area that teaches Russian, and if they fit your schedule. I'd have to drive 45 minutes each way plus pay for parking. And then I'd have to work on their schedule. Cost-per-hour wise, a University is probably the way to go, and I wouldn't fault anyone for going that route if it works for them.

My tutor tailors her lessons based on my needs. We meet twice a week for 2 hours, and I have a 10 minute drive each way. Before we did a single lesson we met for close to an hour and discussed what my needs are. (she didn't charge for this.) She holds a degree in Russian studies from Ukraine, and is working on an English degree, so as far as tutors go she's pretty dang qualified. She also works around my schedule for the most part--she has a life too, so we work it out. I've only done 2 lessons with her so far, but both times she's been very prepared with a lesson plan, and best of all we go at *my* pace, not an arbitrary "you must know this much in 9 weeks" pace. I'm very lucky that she seems to take this job very seriously.

I'm not discounting formal instruction if it's available and scheduling can be worked out. But for me it's not a viable option. I think quality of the tutor is more important than price though. My first tutor was only charging $15/hour, but I could never get a hold of her before the first lesson even started. My current tutor charges $20/hour, and so far she's been worth every penny. YMMV.

[mox 298]

We always use the verb кушать for eating. Maybe it's a local thing. I never heard anyone use есть in Kazan' to say they eat.

"ест" is "to eat," not "есть." That's the mistake I made. I learned ест from the Rosetta Stone course, so it doesn't surprise me that it's not common. Last night she mentioned another word I learned in Rosetta that's not common, but I can't remember it.

On the one hand I'm sort of glad I did Rosetta, because it at least intro'd me to the language, and I could actually hear it being spoken. But I am definitely having to unlearn some things (but not a lot). At the very least I over-paid. Glad I didn't buy the "I & II" bundle.