Welcome to the 21st century, NJ

[Ban Hammer 12,876]

I guess the fact that it has been proved over and over again that the death penalty isn't a deterrent doesn't sit well with you either?

I find it somewhat odd that there are people who seem to believe that most of us are obeying the law because of the 'consequences' of not doing so. The truth is, most people obey the law because the majority of laws don't play any part in the way most people conduct their lives. We aren't constantly wrestling with our conscience, shall I steal today? Shall I commit murder tomorrow?

actually, that's not true. do a search on vj - i posted the article months ago.

I guess the fact that it has been proved over and over again that the death penalty isn't a deterrent doesn't sit well with you either?

I find it somewhat odd that there are people who seem to believe that most of us are obeying the law because of the 'consequences' of not doing so. The truth is, most people obey the law because the majority of laws don't play any part in the way most people conduct their lives. We aren't constantly wrestling with our conscience, shall I steal today? Shall I commit murder tomorrow?

I don't have time to think about that stuff... I have to go kill a bunch of people in New Jersey to celebrate.

when in rome......

[Peikko 1,575]

You asked why there were endless appeals? Well, obviously they aren't endless, but the due process of law has to be applied very rigorously when dealing with the death penalty, for the obvious reason that any mistake leads to the death of someone who should not have been killed according to statutes that have to be upheld will all due diligence. In other words, when it comes to putting someone to death, it's pretty much more "rocket science" than "putting down rabid dog."

Still, I didn't expect you to follow something that complex.

Edited December 18, 2007 by Purple_Hibiscus

[Peikko 1,575]

From the OP

"A special state commission found in January that the death penalty was a more expensive sentence than life in prison, hasn't deterred murder and risks killing an innocent person.

I have never seen a study that proves that it does, the majority of murders being those that are domestic in nature (crimes committed in the heat of passion) rather than these somewhat more colourful, but really rather rare cold blooded murders.

[Ban Hammer 12,876]

You asked why there were endless appeals? Well, obviously they aren't endless, but the due process of law has to be applied very rigorously when dealing with the death penalty, for the obvious reason that any mistake leads to the death of someone who should not have been killed according to statutes that have to be upheld will all due diligence. In other words, when it comes to putting someone to death, it's pretty much more rocket science than putting down rabid dog.

Still, I didn't expect you to follow something that complex.

endless appeals are designed to do one thing and that's clog up the courts. and while you may applaud that sort of thing, i find more than 2 appeals to be a waste of time and money. putting someone to death ain't rocket science - try living in a third world country for a while

but i know this is all greek to you.

From the OP

"A special state commission found in January that the death penalty was a more expensive sentence than life in prison, hasn't deterred murder and risks killing an innocent person.

I have never seen a study that proves that it does, the majority of murders being those that are domestic in nature (crimes committed in the heat of passion) rather than these somewhat more colourful, but really rather rare cold blooded murders.

and did you do a search on the topic i mentioned a few replies ago? nope, it won't sit well with your pov.

eta: here ya go hun since you seem to be search challenged.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...=death++penalty

Edited December 18, 2007 by charlesandnessa

[Caladan 19]

The justice system was never about pandering to sentimentality or indeed what private citizens feel that a criminal deserves.

I always find it interesting that people decry the likes of Saudi Arabia or indeed Sudan (for example) for the inhumane judicial punishments they mete out - and the dodgy legal processes that go along with them; yet whenever someone commits a heinous crime over here there's a big outcry, and no shortage of "string him up" and "hang draw and quarter" rhetoric.

Surely the application of human rights is intended for all people, all of the time, regardless of whether individuals feel that certain people don't deserve it. Surely its a general principle...

I've remarked how it's one of the more amusing qualities of VJ.

A: Here is a news report of someone doing something heinous! He raped and abused a child!

Mob: How horrible! O this heinous crime!

Mob: I want to throw this guy over a table and rape him until his eyes fall out! And give him AIDS and beat him and ###### him with a spiked #######!

Mob: Salve! The magical c0ck of justice!

[Alex+R 0]

so true

[Ban Hammer 12,876]

I've remarked how it's one of the more amusing qualities of VJ.

A: Here is a news report of someone doing something heinous! He raped and abused a child!

Mob: How horrible! O this heinous crime!

Mob: I want to throw this guy over a table and rape him until his eyes fall out! And give him AIDS and beat him and ###### him with a spiked #######!

Mob: Salve! The magical c0ck of justice!

i certainly don't recall seeing that post......

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

so true

It certainly makes it hard impossible to have a constructive conversation on these kinds of things, because it always comes down to "you're either with us, or you're the enemy".

[Caladan 19]

Anyhow, I think as the American justice system is, the death penalty is as likely to execute someone innocent as someone guilty, and you can't take back an execution. The Innocence Project's exonerated enough people that I think it's not something that can really be justified in most cases.

[Jaseball 0]

The only people I believe are truly against the death penalty are the ones who can watch or know their family was raped, sodomized, tortured, and killed by someone and they still think the criminal should be able to live out their life in jail, stay warm, get fed, get free medical, etc.

Our real problem is the court and appeal process. Career criminals know they can pretty much drag out the process and delay their execution until they die of other causes in many cases.

If people were given death, then one week later a 3 panel review by 3 judges with only a 2/3 majority needed to approve the death and we shot the person to death, then the death penalty would be a deterrent.

Some people in this world really are sociopaths and should be put down like a rabid dog. Heck, I think we should redo our death penalty process, then expand the range of executable offenses. Would seriously cut down on our prison population and scare the ####### out of career criminals.

Three strikes should be death. A severe crime with aggravated circumstances should be death.

[Ban Hammer 12,876]

The only people I believe are truly against the death penalty are the ones who can watch or know their family was raped, sodomized, tortured, and killed by someone and they still think the criminal should be able to live out their life in jail, stay warm, get fed, get free medical, etc.

Our real problem is the court and appeal process. Career criminals know they can pretty much drag out the process and delay their execution until they die of other causes in many cases.

If people were given death, then one week later a 3 panel review by 3 judges with only a 2/3 majority needed to approve the death and we shot the person to death, then the death penalty would be a deterrent.

Some people in this world really are sociopaths and should be put down like a rabid dog. Heck, I think we should redo our death penalty process, then expand the range of executable offenses. Would seriously cut down on our prison population and scare the ####### out of career criminals.

Three strikes should be death. A severe crime with aggravated circumstances should be death.

finally! finally someone who doesn't have their head in rectal defilade nor is too busy high fiving fellow left wingers to read the link i posted.

not one of our progressive crowd above has felt the obligation to take on this from that link:

What gets little notice, however, is a series of academic studies over the last half-dozen years that claim to settle a once hotly debated argument — whether the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder. The analyses say yes. They count between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer.

[Caladan 19]

Eh. It may be a deterrent, though it's worth noting that the crime rate hasn't skyrocketed in countries without the death penalty, and that there have been a lot of people released from death row who were found to be innocent.

[Peikko 1,575]

Jaseball, I think you live in the wrong country. What you are advocating is truly barbaric.

[Dan J 277]

3 Reasons people commit murder.

1. Crime of passion, in the heat of an argument how many people consider the consequences of their actions?

2. Criminals/sociopaths who assume they wont get caught. How is the death penalty a deterrent if your assume that you will never get caught?

3. Mental illness of some sort that compels a person to such an action.

[Alex+R 0]

Thank god we don't let people who think like Jaseball make important decisions!