kennym

pdmacca
I'm certainly not naive enough to think that someone who feels that they're madly in-love would take any sound advice and take the time to really get to know someone before jumping into any kinds of comitment.. It is entirely your call and for everyone else who reads these threads as well.. The results of your descision will be yours and only yours to deal with as with anyone else considering a K1 visa or any relationship, domestic or foriegn. The advise given is simply that "advise". No one will fault you for jumping in with both feet.. Millions of people do it, why not you? however, millions fail, and a few, have wonderful romantic stories to share later with thier kids..
living on cliches and hyperbolies can be romantic but not real practical and not safe.. So, we actually expect most people that feel they can fall in-love over the internet to not be open to sensible ideas and advise, and certainly, we know it's not possible they will listen to anything contrary. But our advise can reach those that still have a little rationale remaining and result in others reading this thread to be thoughtful about all the things that a relationship needs to prosper..
For you Mrs pdmacca, It's great if it works out.. and I seriously hope you and Paul have a great visit and you really turn out to be "LUCKY" like jill and her man, lucky to have found the right person over the internet... It's a one-in-a-million shot, but who knows, you guys could be that "one"..
For the rest of the people of sound mind and judgement, hopefully they will take time to meet, and get to really know someone before commiting to a K1, marriage, kids and life.. There are a lot of things at stake, especially when doing a visa.. VAWA, integrity, Future Visas, Finacial Considerations, just to name a few. So the sound thinker must evaluate all those factors before making any comitments. It's serious business.. with lots at stake and not the least of which is emotional well being..
Kenny

Kenny has repeatedly apologized, explained himself, and even in this thread, has asked her to stay. I think the connotation of 'there are many good people here' mean what? Kenny's 'bad'?
No one was trolling, he just had a differing opinion, to which he's already apologized. If people can't handle that, perhaps the net is not for them. This place is TAME compared to what is out there, and wrapping noobs in cotton woll and/or begging them to stay is kinda strange imo, What does it matter who stays or who goes? As long as no TOS were broken, I don't see the problem with Kenny at all.

Agree one hundred percent,and apologizing to dawn?...I'm sure she's a good lady,but what the heck does anyone need to apologize for??..I never read one thread on there that was mean or evil,just good advise was all I read,and isn't what this site is about??...answers and advice?

I was responding to Lucky Jimmy...
He also seemed to want to delete his account... Dawn and I are good. and hopefully, their visit will go great and can move thier relationship up a few levels..
Thanks for everyones, support.. I really don't always come across as a diplomatic person, but the intent is well meaning...
Kenny

I am not sure what's the big deal.. Just dont log-in.. why would it matter if your account is deleted or not.. They're not taking any money from you.. just dont visit the site anymore and that solves that..
Kenny

Gemmie,
Great, you don't have to read it.. I was replying to your posts and still trying to understand how your prior posts relate to meeting in person...
I gave my 2 cents worth and created a pointless firestorm.. My advise is sound and based on my experience..
Kenny

This is just advise..
Marriage is a lifelong commitment... Not just "for the moment" commitment.. The factors that go into compatibilty cant be know until you've had time to really know someone.. I don't know how much time that is, it varies with everyone.. Don't get started on a battle of semantics.. There are to many people that believe they're in a fairy tale novel and that the rules of relationships don't apply to them... I should have kept my opinion to myself, but since you asked..
The Immigration process is based on these factors as well as others factors including fraud prevention.. I'm not a relationship expert, but everyone knows that "Love" can somewhat be powerful force that sometimes keeps us from thinking rationally.. If I see a couple making a normally bad descission, then I hope that I can say something that will cause them to think it through...
It clearly appears that my advise is not very popular, but I really encourage anyone making rash descisions about anything to stop and think things through...
Kenny

Dont mean to take this thread off into the weeds, but Rob and Jill, you're taking my post way out of context.. So maybe you just want to appear cute, but I didn't state any kinda time that someone needs to know each other after meeting.. My only point was, is "you can't be in-love without meeting someone.." You can be irrational and believe it's love, but that is not love.. So take my point and put whatever twist you want on it, but rational adults do not make these kinds of comitments until the relationship has taken its course.. The things that lead to true love are as individual as anything, and I did not attempt to define that... I only said you can't be in-love unless you've had time to meet someone.. I know that there are movies and fairytales and fantasy worlds that say diferent, but keep in mind, thats not reality..
Kenny

Dawn you have got to think this thru...
You are in love with someone you've never met.. How is that even possible? Thats the question everyone is going to ask you.. The USCIS, the Embassy, the POE...
This process is lengthy, involved and very specific rules, designed to prevent fraud... You wont be able to get around the basic requirements? But ask yourself how you would consider marrying a person you've never met in-person... Nevermind the Visa Process Rules, there is a fundamental relationship issue that is being overlooked..
Kenny

Does he have some plan to pay the fees via the online payment portal, or no? (Not EP related, btw)

pdmacca
I'm certainly not naive enough to think that someone who feels that they're madly in-love would take any sound advice and take the time to really get to know someone before jumping into any kinds of comitment.. It is entirely your call and for everyone else who reads these threads as well.. The results of your descision will be yours and only yours to deal with as with anyone else considering a K1 visa or any relationship, domestic or foriegn. The advise given is simply that "advise". No one will fault you for jumping in with both feet.. Millions of people do it, why not you? however, millions fail, and a few, have wonderful romantic stories to share later with thier kids..
living on cliches and hyperbolies can be romantic but not real practical and not safe.. So, we actually expect most people that feel they can fall in-love over the internet to not be open to sensible ideas and advise, and certainly, we know it's not possible they will listen to anything contrary. But our advise can reach those that still have a little rationale remaining and result in others reading this thread to be thoughtful about all the things that a relationship needs to prosper..
For you Mrs pdmacca, It's great if it works out.. and I seriously hope you and Paul have a great visit and you really turn out to be "LUCKY" like jill and her man, lucky to have found the right person over the internet... It's a one-in-a-million shot, but who knows, you guys could be that "one"..
For the rest of the people of sound mind and judgement, hopefully they will take time to meet, and get to really know someone before commiting to a K1, marriage, kids and life.. There are a lot of things at stake, especially when doing a visa.. VAWA, integrity, Future Visas, Finacial Considerations, just to name a few. So the sound thinker must evaluate all those factors before making any comitments. It's serious business.. with lots at stake and not the least of which is emotional well being..
Kenny

Hello Gemmie..
Your story is a wonderful story about sacrifice and doing whatever it took to be with your Significant other.. I am not sure how you compared my statements to your situation.. What you did is what most people in-love would do.. I've always felt my relationship was the most important thing in my life...
What I am going to say next will knock most of you off your chair and everyone will send me nasty responses, but here it is.. "Butterflies and Strong Desires" doesn't result in a lasting relationhsip... It's a good start, but other stuff also needs to be there to fortify the relationship. Compatiblty has a lot to do with how two people think and act in the less than perfect situations. Those situations cant be evaluated without spending time together..
So, that said, don't you see the diference between your sitation and the Original Posters Situation? You felt like you just had to be with your fiancees, and she didn't want to because she couldn't handle the separation afterwards. That is not a good reason and can't possibly know how someone really is until you meet. I've known many wonderful (Absolutely Wonderful) people all over the world, but we weren't necessarily marriage marraige material, doesn't make her a bad person or me a bad person, just not compatible...
I think it's wonderful and most of the stories you hear in this thread are heart warming about how people meet and feel something special. But the jury is still out on how that "feeling" relates to a Successful Relationship.. Sure all the butterflies are there and the desires, but when it comes down to the tough times and enduring long periods of hardship, are the butterflies still there and does BOTH members of the relationship contribute equally to getting through tough times? these are things you can't know until you've been together.. Anyone can say the right things and show the right emotions from 3000 miles away, but it's a diferent story when you live with someone day after day enduring all of lifes chalenges and realities. Then you realize what people are made of..
Those of you with the wonderful srories of how you met and felt immediately in-love, thats great, but really doesn't have a thing to do with what my point that the OP suggested she was in-love and never met.. The most dangerous relationship advise someone can give is to do it because it worked for me.. That's not rational, it's cool to say it, but it simply isn't sound advise.. Sound Advise is to take time to get to know someone before jumping into any serious commitments including the K-1..
How many times do we VJ'rs hear about K1 Applicants withdrawing thier petitions or cancelling the VISA because the Relationship failed.. If you would have advised them early on, they would have all said the same thing, "we are in love and we know we're in love".. K-1's Petitions are supposed to be for relationships that are already certain to get married.. We've seen here on VJ that isn't alway the case.. Some feel it's a try before you buy then if it doesn't work out, ship'm back.. It's true some relationships fail after a K-1 POE becuase of Homesickness, and that is a valid reason, but otherwise, K1 is not a "try before you buy" visa..
So that being said, the Relationship needs to be established before considering the K1 Petition.. If you review my Timeline, I Met Maritza 2 years before I proposed, then waited another year to start the K1 Paperwork.. I don't suggest that's for everyone, it was something we did that worked for us...
Butterflies and "Knowing Your in-love" alone, simply does not result in life long relationships. Those are "time tested" and "Trial and Tribulation" tested to see how both partners work together to manage life.. The rest of it is absolutely cinderella and Fairy Tale stuff... It's irresposible and irrational, and if it's something any of you want to risk, more power to you...
And I do remember reading that Cinderella was divorced months later..

'Kayla*Mathew' You also imagining things I didn't say.. I also met my fiancee in much the same way everyone else. I ONLY SAID, to meet before deciding... Nothing else,
And no I won't keep my Opinions to myself, Opinions are part of the forum.. They may not be helpful to everyone, but to some they might be.. Unless you're irrational... You can evaluate my posts and if its not helpful ignore it..
Kenny

This is just advise..
Marriage is a lifelong commitment... Not just "for the moment" commitment.. The factors that go into compatibilty cant be know until you've had time to really know someone.. I don't know how much time that is, it varies with everyone.. Don't get started on a battle of semantics.. There are to many people that believe they're in a fairy tale novel and that the rules of relationships don't apply to them... I should have kept my opinion to myself, but since you asked..
The Immigration process is based on these factors as well as others factors including fraud prevention.. I'm not a relationship expert, but everyone knows that "Love" can somewhat be powerful force that sometimes keeps us from thinking rationally.. If I see a couple making a normally bad descission, then I hope that I can say something that will cause them to think it through...
It clearly appears that my advise is not very popular, but I really encourage anyone making rash descisions about anything to stop and think things through...
Kenny

I think a valid point is being made.....

Once again, the Boiler nails it!
And he is not a 40K poster (with all the credibility that carries!)
};^\

I have to agree, I was a bit surprised due to the 'we haven't met cos it would crush us to separate, but do we have to meet before we get married anyway?' logic.

Me too.
Certainly came across that way.

pdmacca
I'm certainly not naive enough to think that someone who feels that they're madly in-love would take any sound advice and take the time to really get to know someone before jumping into any kinds of comitment.. It is entirely your call and for everyone else who reads these threads as well.. The results of your descision will be yours and only yours to deal with as with anyone else considering a K1 visa or any relationship, domestic or foriegn. The advise given is simply that "advise". No one will fault you for jumping in with both feet.. Millions of people do it, why not you? however, millions fail, and a few, have wonderful romantic stories to share later with thier kids..
living on cliches and hyperbolies can be romantic but not real practical and not safe.. So, we actually expect most people that feel they can fall in-love over the internet to not be open to sensible ideas and advise, and certainly, we know it's not possible they will listen to anything contrary. But our advise can reach those that still have a little rationale remaining and result in others reading this thread to be thoughtful about all the things that a relationship needs to prosper..
For you Mrs pdmacca, It's great if it works out.. and I seriously hope you and Paul have a great visit and you really turn out to be "LUCKY" like jill and her man, lucky to have found the right person over the internet... It's a one-in-a-million shot, but who knows, you guys could be that "one"..
For the rest of the people of sound mind and judgement, hopefully they will take time to meet, and get to really know someone before commiting to a K1, marriage, kids and life.. There are a lot of things at stake, especially when doing a visa.. VAWA, integrity, Future Visas, Finacial Considerations, just to name a few. So the sound thinker must evaluate all those factors before making any comitments. It's serious business.. with lots at stake and not the least of which is emotional well being..
Kenny

QFT.
This is where I stopped reading, because I couldn't wait anymore before throwing my .02 in here. Kenny has taken a lot of ####### in this thread, and imo, it's undeserved.
Now, with that being said, I'll give you *my* perspective. I was living with a man in the UK for 5 years. I got homesick and decided to come home, eventually I agreed to his proposal, and we started the K-1. Now here's someone with whom I knew like the back of my hand...and yeah, we can all talk about those 'butterflies' and all that wonderful stuff, but at the end of the day, the distance has a way of sometimes skewering perspective. We hear and see what we want, which is easy over a phone/webcamera/etc, and while that may gel with reality, sometimes it doesn't. But it's easy to happen because the heart wants what it wants. In my case, the reality of what was did not gel with what I thought, and eventually I canceled the visa and moved on.
Everyone says that 'this is the hardest part, being apart'....and I can tell you that from my perspective, that's not so. I've been here on VJ long enough to see how the adjustment period is the hardest on the beneficiary...and can cause major stress for the couple (i think this holds true more for male beneficiaries btw)...there's a loss of identity, adjusting to a new culture, missing home, etc. I know the feeling of being displaced within a country - felt it when I went to the UK, and that was meant just as 'party time' and not 'real life' lol. There was no AOS stress, or 'hey this is your new life' hanging over my head; I always knew it was temporary. So I can't really imagine how it must feel for a bene, although I have an inkling. I feel the worst for the K-1ers, because they basically come here statusless and are wholly dependent on the petitioner, which must feel so odd as a grown adult.
Now, I am married with a child to a wonderful man...he's also a USC btw. And I can tell you this: as much as I knew him, as wonderful as he is, as compatible as we are...it was quite a shock 'getting to know' him on a deeper level when we both were sharing the same house. He felt the same way too. It was stressful at times....and it was someone I was with for a long time before we lived together.
Those of you who are now married, and those whose fiance(e)s are here - are you actually saying you haven't formed a deeper bond with your spouse since you met? You don't know your partner on a much deeper level now, as opposed to when you were just on the phone/internet? Come on.
Saying all that, I can understand people getting defensive over what may seem like Kenny 'challenging' your feelings for one another...but really...we're all adults here. More power to you if you want to get married before you even meet...but if your sibling or best friend were telling you the same thing, would you really not question whether that was the wisest choice? Would you just say 'great, you feel butterflies, go to it'. Especially those of you with children. By all means, do what you want, it's your life...but as a concept, and for the sake of this conversation (meaning, I don't really care what the OP does or doesn't do as it doesn't pertain to me), it's foolhardy to not vet your SO in person before marrying?
But this convo is superfluous anyways, because of USCIS's reqs.

Hello Gemmie..
Your story is a wonderful story about sacrifice and doing whatever it took to be with your Significant other.. I am not sure how you compared my statements to your situation.. What you did is what most people in-love would do.. I've always felt my relationship was the most important thing in my life...
What I am going to say next will knock most of you off your chair and everyone will send me nasty responses, but here it is.. "Butterflies and Strong Desires" doesn't result in a lasting relationhsip... It's a good start, but other stuff also needs to be there to fortify the relationship. Compatiblty has a lot to do with how two people think and act in the less than perfect situations. Those situations cant be evaluated without spending time together..
So, that said, don't you see the diference between your sitation and the Original Posters Situation? You felt like you just had to be with your fiancees, and she didn't want to because she couldn't handle the separation afterwards. That is not a good reason and can't possibly know how someone really is until you meet. I've known many wonderful (Absolutely Wonderful) people all over the world, but we weren't necessarily marriage marraige material, doesn't make her a bad person or me a bad person, just not compatible...
I think it's wonderful and most of the stories you hear in this thread are heart warming about how people meet and feel something special. But the jury is still out on how that "feeling" relates to a Successful Relationship.. Sure all the butterflies are there and the desires, but when it comes down to the tough times and enduring long periods of hardship, are the butterflies still there and does BOTH members of the relationship contribute equally to getting through tough times? these are things you can't know until you've been together.. Anyone can say the right things and show the right emotions from 3000 miles away, but it's a diferent story when you live with someone day after day enduring all of lifes chalenges and realities. Then you realize what people are made of..
Those of you with the wonderful srories of how you met and felt immediately in-love, thats great, but really doesn't have a thing to do with what my point that the OP suggested she was in-love and never met.. The most dangerous relationship advise someone can give is to do it because it worked for me.. That's not rational, it's cool to say it, but it simply isn't sound advise.. Sound Advise is to take time to get to know someone before jumping into any serious commitments including the K-1..
How many times do we VJ'rs hear about K1 Applicants withdrawing thier petitions or cancelling the VISA because the Relationship failed.. If you would have advised them early on, they would have all said the same thing, "we are in love and we know we're in love".. K-1's Petitions are supposed to be for relationships that are already certain to get married.. We've seen here on VJ that isn't alway the case.. Some feel it's a try before you buy then if it doesn't work out, ship'm back.. It's true some relationships fail after a K-1 POE becuase of Homesickness, and that is a valid reason, but otherwise, K1 is not a "try before you buy" visa..
So that being said, the Relationship needs to be established before considering the K1 Petition.. If you review my Timeline, I Met Maritza 2 years before I proposed, then waited another year to start the K1 Paperwork.. I don't suggest that's for everyone, it was something we did that worked for us...
Butterflies and "Knowing Your in-love" alone, simply does not result in life long relationships. Those are "time tested" and "Trial and Tribulation" tested to see how both partners work together to manage life.. The rest of it is absolutely cinderella and Fairy Tale stuff... It's irresposible and irrational, and if it's something any of you want to risk, more power to you...
And I do remember reading that Cinderella was divorced months later..

'Kayla*Mathew' You also imagining things I didn't say.. I also met my fiancee in much the same way everyone else. I ONLY SAID, to meet before deciding... Nothing else,
And no I won't keep my Opinions to myself, Opinions are part of the forum.. They may not be helpful to everyone, but to some they might be.. Unless you're irrational... You can evaluate my posts and if its not helpful ignore it..
Kenny

Dont mean to take this thread off into the weeds, but Rob and Jill, you're taking my post way out of context.. So maybe you just want to appear cute, but I didn't state any kinda time that someone needs to know each other after meeting.. My only point was, is "you can't be in-love without meeting someone.." You can be irrational and believe it's love, but that is not love.. So take my point and put whatever twist you want on it, but rational adults do not make these kinds of comitments until the relationship has taken its course.. The things that lead to true love are as individual as anything, and I did not attempt to define that... I only said you can't be in-love unless you've had time to meet someone.. I know that there are movies and fairytales and fantasy worlds that say diferent, but keep in mind, thats not reality..
Kenny

Colin&Lori, Damian&Kelly,
Very cool about your story, and for those who believe cinderella and other fairy tales are real life, more power to you.. for those in the real world, those relationships are NOT the norm and although I have no statistics, these relationships seemingly rarely last.
I am talking about just normal rational behaivior.. Colin&Lori, Damian&Kelly, the jury is still out on your relationships just like it's still out on mine.. Those points are all rather irrelevant however, since the Visa requires you meet in person either way.. By the way, I wonder why that is.. Maybe the USCIS realizes that the relationships require more than just internet, letters and phone calls to build...
Kenny