tany1157

Dear lady friend,
I'm sorry of your troubles, but speaking from a mans point of view and of a different culture than my wife, I'm very happy to say, I am not one of those many men you speak of. I wish you not think of us MENA men like troubled people with only green cards in our mind. You seem young and a bit immature to come here and speak so terribly about us. Have you considered maybe you are apart of the problem, I personally think you thought you could change him once you got him here with ultimatums and that didn't go so well. Your written communication here is hostile and I only imagine how the two of you communicated when a problem came up if you cannot take the criticism here. Trust me, I learned the hard way here and have tried very hard to learn from my mistakes when speaking. My English is good but I find hard to write how I want to speak here.
I would never ask my wife to do anything like convert to Islam, actually, nothing that she didn't want to experience. We have been together more years than you have college years plus some, so your degrees are not important to me. What is important to me, is that you please don't generalize your sloppy marriage to mine which I adore every day and my soon to be baby girls that I work so hard to make sure they come into this world with love and peace.
I'm a happy peaceful MENA man with love to my wife and family.

I agree with Sandinista....trying to reason with someone like the OP is folly. Her frequent mentions of her "attractiveness to western men", extensive education, and cultural savvy, are nothing more than a sad, and desperate attempt to set herself above us all, and give herself credibility and authority...a vain grasping attempt to conceal tragic insecurities that are glaringly obvious to everyone but her. "Methinks thou doth profess too much." She is desperate to validate her bad choice, by laying full blame on all MENA men. And anyone who has received one of her delightfully venomous replies, surely can sense that perhaps there is much more to this "tragic" tale, that just a scummy husband who went awol. At first it was the lowlife scammer "sometimes abuser" that left her to live and do business with some old man....then suddenly she was the confident champion who could have stayed with him, but chose to leave him. With each story change I am more confident that the we are not actually getting the real story at all.
I'm sure its enraging have her theory shattered. A theory which I'm sure at one time probably made her feel better, and less foolish. The theory is that "the majority" of MENA relationships are as dysfunctional as hers was. It must be awful to learn that in fact, it was actually your own poor choice that landed you a bad egg, and not be able to blame MENA men in general. Because as long as she came blame the lot of them, then she doesn't have to acknowledge that perhaps she was just foolish, and made a rotten choice for a husband. Misery loves company. And I'm sure our stories, and our wonderful, good MENA husbands & relationships must just irk her to the core....hence the defensive lashing out, and desperate attempts to belittle and discredit everyone who disagrees with her. I think the nature of the OP's replies (and original post to begin with) gives us more insight than anything to the truth behind the words ....if you catch my drift.

YOU are judging everyone here without knowing OUR stories. You think just because I'm an American married to a MENA man that I must have converted, lost my identity by taking on his culture, and that he'll some day turn on me. And that must be true of all (or at least most) of the women who have married MENA men.
I know who I am. Yes, I like some of the music he brought here with him (I've always liked being exposed to new music by people I know, ever since I was a child) just as he likes new music that he discovered here, and I occasionally cook the recipes he gave me (c'mon - couscous - who can blame me?) just as he's developed a taste for American foods, I find it odd when people I meet assume I would've converted. I tell them no, and he hasn't converted either. Yes, I flew hours to visit with him (he couldn't do the same because of the difficulties in getting a tourist visa), but he LEFT THE ONLY LIFE HE KNEW to be with me in a totally unfamiliar and not always welcoming place. He learned my language (which he barely knew at first - now he's fluent), and I barely know any of his. I didn't even 'cover' when I visited his country. If anything, he's done more and given up more than I have.
I was married to an emotionally abusive American before. My MENA husband (NO quotes) has supported me and encouraged me (as I've done for him - I think that's vital to a good relationship), and I've not just survived, but I've risen to the challenges that I've encountered. I've accomplished more in the 7+ years I've known him than I previously thought I could. He has empowered me and helped me see what's wonderful about myself. HE is not abusive. I learned from the mistakes I made marrying my abusive ex. We all just want you to do the same thing.
You claim to be 'over' him and the relationship, but the fact that you feel the need to bash anyone with his "same" background (according to you - I think there are vast differences throughout the entire MENA area) and/or anyone in a MENA/non-MENA relationship says otherwise. I don't feel the need to group all men from my ex's background with him, or warn others to avoid Italian-Americans (just self-centered, uncaring, manipulative men of ANY background).
We're not defensive about our men because we're afraid of anything within our relationships - we're just sick of the stereotyping, and the unfair discrimination against them by people who think they're all alike. Oh, and the stereotyping of women who love them.

Just wrote out a long post but somehow it got erased. So here's the cliff notes version. OP- the you will serve yourself better by examining what are the issues you struggle with that motivated to Marty a physically abusive man. Not only married him but experienced the physical abuse, but got home where you were safe and sound and had no need to ever be in contact with a physically abusive man again. Not only did you return to a physically abisive situation, but you went to significant trouble (immigration process) to bring that abuse into your home. AND you put your dad at risk by allowing him to sponsor a physically abusive man financially. Questioning and figuring out why you welcome abuse into your home will serve you better than all of the cultural and religious generalization gymnastics you've gone into here. You're still in denial that he shows you who he was from the beginning. The minute he laid hands on you, he showed you exactly who he was. And the minute you disregarded that and ignored that and continued a relationship with him, you showed him exactly how you expected to be treated. You need to get out of that denial and figure out what issues you deal with that motivated you and allows you to be in an abusive relationship. That will bode better for your future than any of your vj postings will do. You're more likely to be in future abusive relationships until you figure that question out about yourself. But that's tough to look at. It's easier to talk about his culture, religion, friends, family etc - bit it's not going to help you avoid abusive relationships in the future.

Although your degree in International Relations, is no doubt as impressive as the fact that you were "an attractive girl who got lots of Western guy's attention and did not fall into the stereotype of being frumpy, obese, or an older woman desperately in love with a younger man" - your knowledge about the demographics of Islam is not so impressive. In point of fact, only about 15% of Muslims are Arab. So the correlations you keep making with Islam and Arab culture is, quite frankly, rather ignorant to the breadth of Islamic culture. It appears that you are basing the vast and sweeping generalizations regarding Islam, (and your obvious disdain for "non-ethnic white girls" raising their children as Muslims,) on a classically ignorant stereotype that all Muslims must be Arab. A rookie mistake for a Master in International Relations.
And for all your degrees, in continuing to make correlations with MENA men and Arab culture, you seem surprisingly unaware that there are entire ethnic groups in the MENA region that are not even Arab....and there are plenty of women here that are married to non-Arab MENA men. The Berbers for example, are not Arab, and make up a good percentage of the actual ehnic make-up of North Africa. Iranians are not Arab. So clumping all men in this region into the Arab ethnicity and culture shows, yet again, a lack of real understanding about the region you claim to have such insight into.
And that's to say nothing of the nonsense of stereotyping ANY ethnic group in its entirety, period. The Arabic "cultural norms" you claim to understand, are in reality, so diverse and varied depending on the country, its ridiculous to suggest that your isolated experience with an Arab from Lebanon gives you insight into all Arabic men. Its like someone marrying a guy from the Southern U.S. claiming to understand how all American men behave. Its totally different in different regions, families etc.
Clearly you have a lot more internal healing to do. You may want to start by forgiving yourself for being duped by the lowlife you married. Railing on MENA men is only a temporary fix. Once you stop blaming everything else, you can own your part in the disaster, and realize you were too young to see the screaming red flags (for any relationship, MENA or not). I think only then can you forgive yourself, and forget him, and stop letting this relationship poison your life. And I know, you are over it already. But the fury with which you write would suggest otherwise. Best wishes in your journey.

Where do you live? I live in Brooklyn. Born and raised. Did you know there are mosques with spanish language services? I know because in my borough if ye seek ye shall find.
You do realize you've made yourself into a sideshow rather than a person. This thread shall not stay open much longer because all you are doing is bickering. You have an axe to grind. That is not the fault of anyone on this forum. That is your husband's fault and your fault too [you married him even after he physically abused you??]. Now you're mad that we aren't all joining you in your pity party. Usually insulting a group's significant others isn't a good way to gain a supportive audience. You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last but any somewhat valid points you were trying to make was lost in all your inane arguing. You made a bad choice of a husband and I feel sorry for you but life goes on. The best thing you can do for yourself is to move on.

So women (or people in general) who come from an Anglo-Saxon background don't have strong cultures of their own? Especially if Protestant? And that also makes them not religious? There is a need to be bilingual in the mix? You do realize that everyone has a culture, right? I thought you were familiar with Anthro 101. That is pretty insulting to put it mildly...

Lol so that just means you hooked up with a POS. Most of us active in this forum have decent MENA husbands that treat us with respect.
Now that you know what a POS looks like maybe you'll do better next time.

I have trouble understanding how YOUR story becomes that of someone else. This is what you decided to do to yourself at every turn. It didn't turn out well and I am sorry to hear that but I really don't see what this has to do with anyone else. As you say its clearly all about YOU. Almost.
However at the end of the long sad story we see what I copied below:
To all girls out there, realize that men can change NOT just MENA men, but ALL men. However, when a relationship has interests involved like visas, money, etc. there is a higher chance of hurt feelings. As much as you want to believe your story is different from mine or your man has a bigger heart than mine had, remember I was also in your shoes, dismissing every horror story I read. I changed my life for a man who would have never done the same for me. Before you alienate your family, change your religion, and entirely adopt his culture, think if he would do the same for you. Again, I am not a racist and I have love in my heart for all people, but a man who loves you will never try to change you. He will accept you for who you are. With that being said, a part of my heart will forever be in the Middle East, but I am totally over this relationship now and I can honestly say returning to my own values and culture really helped me.
Isnt the above a world wide storm warning to anyone and everyone? Anyone that would listen. Listen to what YOU would not so YOU end up with MY story as you put it. I don't see any indication in YOUR story that you would have heeded your own advise. Now you want to be the town crier so people will listen? They will not. They will have THEIR own story.
MY story is not YOUR story. My story has many of these elements such as visas, money, religion ect. But MY story isn't anything like YOUR story. There are thousands right here on V J that have a great story as well and they must include these elements as well.
I can understand your anger at this man. But it seems you are going to let that turn to hatred of men in general.

You said one thing very right - it was YOUR story. I don't think it's fair or accurate to try to pigeonhole all Muslim Arabs with your ex. I did not convert or adopt the culture, and my husband and in-laws all treat me with love and respect. I think it was just your ex and his family. My in-laws were only married once, to each other - and they were together until my father-in-law's death earlier this year. My husband has never hit me or abused me in any way - it wouldn't be tolerated in his family, nor by me. He definitely considers me #1 - not his friends or family.
Maybe part of it is that my man didn't expect me to "alienate family, change religion, and entirely adopt his culture" - and I felt no need or desire to do so. Despite your belief that that is part of MENA culture, I strongly disagree. That's an abusive mindset, which is found in some people of all cultures.
Couldn't one also say, "NO respectable woman who cares about you will marry you after simply talking to you online a few months and meeting in person on a few vacations", which is apparently what you did? It's not like you didn't have a choice, right? (For what it's worth, we got married as soon as we possibly could, so I'm not bashing those who do.)
My point is that being MENA or getting married 'early' isn't a problem or a warning sign. Not respecting someone, expecting them to change, and abusing someone - THOSE are problems/warning signs.

Holy schizoid back and forth about "I am simply explaining MY story" to "NOBODY ON HERE CAN SAY THAT THEIR HUSBAND WOULD ADOPT THEIR BACKGROUND THE WAY YOU HAVE ADAPTED TO HIS", batman.
No matter how much you huff and puff stinky, toxic ethnocentric garbage on the forum because you ended up with a sh1tty husband, the fact remains you don't know jack about what goes on in total strangers' homes, whether their husbands are MENA, Thai, or Samoan. If that's where you're at in this pile of ####### you got yourself into, you've got a long ways to go.

He wasn't a dream if there was random physical abuse when you travelled abroad. That was your warning. You should have left his butt there. I'm sorry that happened and that you were too young/naive to see it coming.

Sorry, if I may ask... What specifically does he not like here? It HAS to be specific, like -- job, gas prices, food, weather, income, friends; not something like -- "The world is against me!" or, "Life sucks".

Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the advice and support. It is comforting to speak with people who actually understand what I'm going through. We currently live with my parents, so moving is a must. I will def look into the courses, and thinking I will leave him no choice with drivers ed No matter how much love is between us, "life" is now in the way, so to speak. Now we are in a "real" relationship....( you guys hopefully know what I mean) At the end of the day, I love knowing he's with me, and the cuddles certainly help We will get through it. They're still many rewards to being in a multi-cultural relationship, but challenging to say the least. You all have been so helpful...and yes, we knew logically that adjusting would be harder than immigration, but you don't really "know" until you are in the throws of a frustrating battle that you feel you might not win. You def need more than love to get through it

Adjustment can be VERY tough and it can take a long time. My husband wouldn't always tell me when he was feeling down or homesick. Like you, I had to pry it out of him. He would just kind of mope and lay around and even not eat very much. He was depressed. He didn't like his first jobs here either. That was when he could find a job. I'm just letting you know that it will take some time. Babying him won't necessarily help things. Moving around won't necessarily make things better either. Actually babying him and moving him will only enable him to feel sorry for himself and feel like all he has to do is run away from his problems. Helping him become more independent will help him much, much more. Good luck.

Tany,
I agree with Sandinista about the reality of the situation; there are a ton of factors going on. Adjustment is tough! I also agree with the person who talked about the overnight shift being tough.
Here are some things I know that helped my husband - having a mindset that he was going to adjust/adapt no matter what. There are positives and negatives in any place, so encouraging him to focus on the positives can be a help. It seems like he's idealizing Morocco right now because he misses it - there had to be things about Morocco that he disliked. This may seem juvenile or simplistic but have him write a list of the things he didn't like about Morocco, and the things he likes about America.
My husband said keeping busy helped. Doing things he liked doing helped. When he was homesick, doing Moroccan inspired things, or cooking Moroccan food didn't help - it only made him miss Morocco more. When he was feeling down about not being in Morocco, we did something that he really liked here, so he could be reminded about what he liked about here.
If you're able to, I would take the stress of teaching him to drive out of the relationship and send him to some kind of driving school. It will help him gain better skills without you being in the role of teacher.
I hope he's feeling better soon; if I think of anything else, I will post it.

is he being too hard on himself? even without the enormous ####### you guys went through with the consulate and everything, it's hard to get used to being married, living together, and living in a brand new, very different place. does he fully admit this to himself, and view his current position in the proper context? is he viewing where he should be, after having arrived here only nine months ago, with completely unrealistic and self-defeating expectations? that would depress anyone. there are big societal things, big family things, and smaller personal issues all at play here, all combining to make him miserable. some of those things are completely and totally out of his control, and despairing over them won't get him anywhere. they just are. but plenty of other things he can control, and actively work towards achieving changes he wants. those achievements are helpful in gaining acceptance, and living at peace with the things he can't change or eliminate.

Even though my fiance lived in the US for study, I have to say I worry about this too. He has said before he wishes Yemen were safe for foreigners so I could live there instead . But I digress...
I think your husband is definitely being too hard on himself and working overnight shifts probably makes it worse. I used to work overnights and I can tell you firsthand how much of a toll it takes not just on your body's internal clock, but on your mental health and physical well-being. Immigrating to a new country, especially one where your degree(s), credentials, and work experiences don't count for much is very disappointing as well. But so many people have been where he is at right now and through hard work and perseverance they improved their career prospects and became more comfortable in their new surroundings. For the time being I can imagine he's probably stuck in his job but maybe after a year's experience in his current position he can move to more reasonable work hours or apply for a new job. He can take classes at the nearest community college for starters, their tuition is usually quite reasonable. It may help for him to set goals for himself, to reach benchmarks even if they are small, so he feels like he is slowly but surely building up a life here. A great first goal would be to get his drivers license (if he hasn't gotten it already) because being able to get one's self around in a new environment is a great freedom.
In terms of the less glamorous aspects of American culture - I do tend to agree with him. We are as a society entirely too entitled and superficial. And our cost of living is high, although recent political instability in the Maghrib (region - not Morocco specifically) has made life there hard in many aspects as well. In fact, life in every corner of the world brings challenges, it's just the ones we are used to are easier to cope with. His feelings of discouragement are normal and understandable, but as he makes more and more small accomplishments I think he will see there is light at the end of the tunnel. I doubt he needs reminding, but you two have worked so unbelievably hard just to get where you are at now. That was an incredible accomplishment in and of itself and an inspiration to all of us who are still striving just to be together.
Bottom line: The journey isn't over just because he's gotten to America. Life itself is the real journey. The path he has chosen isn't an easy one but it is not insurmountable. It is easy to get caught up in all the things you feel like your life lacks, but what's most important to focus on is meeting your real needs and also being grateful what you do have.

Just popping in to say hello! I can't believe my husband has been here for 9 months already! Time flies. It has been a roller coaster, but still so grateful to be together. We are in the process of finding a new place to live, so we are ready for the next chapter in our lives to begin. Other than that, everything is pretty mundane. My dad has gotten better (not 100%, but he's alive ) We just got hit with an awesome blizzard (I love the snow, my husband, not so much), so enjoyed a snow day from work yesterday. I hope everyone is doing well!!

Thanks guys. We ended up finding a bank that actually knows how to deal with perm. residents... Left the one who insisted we sign the wrong paperwork!

I agree with WOM about giving yourself some time. From what you've shared in this forum, the men you get involved with aren't good for you and the commom denominator in each relationship is you. Give yourself time to discover why you keep choosing toxic men. Having citizenship doesn't mean the guy can't be toxic or a user. I don't know if you're in therapy but maybe it would do some good to help find out what pattern you're following in choosing men? And I don't mean MENA guys, in general. Just because you haven't had a healthy and loving relationship in years doesn't mean you're 100 percent over it and ready to move on. Sad to say but the chances of a new relationship being healthy this soon are very slim. I wouldn't even advise you to have dinner or casual sex at this point. A sex toy would serve you better if sex is what you need. I'm saying this as someone who cares. I'd hate to see you travel down the same road you've been traveling down.
Ugh typos, please excuse. This phone kinda sucks sometimes.

Well... piercing brown eyes and already-a-citizen aside, maybe you should give yourself some time to fully get over what just ended before you start something new. Rebound relationships don't have such a great success rate. Nothing wrong with being friends, I guess... but what's the rush to get your still-healing heart all tangled up again so quickly ?

You are the LAST person I would have imagined reverting to Islam!

why do you need advice to tell the truth?

You are going through a really really hard Consulate who expect to find lies, why make it easy for them to say no?