Always+Forever

But if it's the consulate you're referring to, they can tell who we all are by our timelines anyway - just looking at a few key dates is enough for them to know who is who...

Ok...just burst our bubbles...lol...j/k They know ppl need to vent & they know this site is for helping eachother out, so I think if we all start worrying about every little thing that they might read that we right we will stress ourselves out. They want to know the truth...they will read the truth when we pour it out in our posts. I want them to know how I feel about the whole situation...that's why I wrote a page long rebuttle letter. If we weren't on here fighting and defending our relationships, and upset about what's going on...then how important were they to us in the first place?? So we care...if they will deny us for that, then nobody has a chance...seriously!! I hope they come read everything that I've said...maybe then they will see how serious we really are. They NEED to research more in to the actual relationships instead of just little stuff they happen to get from us. Go & see our facebook pages & see how are family & friends are involved on both sides and how they are affected by the handling of our cases. They need to see the whole picture instead of the little window of evidence that we are able to get in front of them. Just my little two cents...sorry for the rampage...lol Done now

Monica

Most definately....ranting gets all the tension out so we don't let it out somewhere else

The only reason they gave him was him calling me his lasting love too early...which i think was just a soft way of trying to get him to respond & prove them wrong...its not a strong enough excuse by no means. One thing I've learned from getting more details from Hicham...they were light on his refusal...i believe they wanted him to just step up and prove them wrong. Hicham thought that if they said no, then there is no way to change their minds...he knows now that is wrong, but I think all of u with up coming interviews need to be sure to prepare your SO for the chance of denial also...have them ask why...when they tell u, explain why their reason is wrong & then ask if there is any other reason why, etc. Don't stop trying to prove your case until they change their mind or kick u out...LOL Talking & expressing true facts can't hurt you...let them know your true case...don't give in to them & just say you will just move on to the next step...they WANT you to stand up and fight (not physically) for your relationship. Ok...i'm done with my rant...lol I just don't want anyone else to have the same thing happen to them. I regret not preparing better for a possible denial...we were too sure when they called & said bring your passport...NEVER be sure of anything...hope for the best, but ALWAYS plan for the worst!!!! Best of luck to everybody!!

Monica

Ok...got some new infor from Hicham last night...i think things r slowly coming back as he calms down from the shock of the refusal....anyway, he said that they gave him back all of the original evidence that I sent with the 129F at the very beginning...is this normal? I would think that if it was going back to the US to be reviewed, they would need that evidence, right?? Also, I sent the email explaining in detail every matter that I found through the questions they asked & mentioned at the refusal appt with 11 pics (its the lowest i could get it down to with 3 mths of pics...lol) Have been trying to call to confirm that they received it...they machine keeps answering saying call betwen 3-4...it IS!!! Gonna keep trying & let me know what u guys think about the evidence coming back to us.

Thanks,

Monica

Well, here is something i didn't know...my senator's office just emailed me to update me, she said they can NOT call them, but she emailed them and is awaiting a reply....very interesting...hmm

Monica

If it was me, I'd go with one long, rather than break it up.

thats what i started thinking...cuz it might get annoying if i break it up...don't wanna piss them off Now i have to go through the 60 pics i filtered down to & pick out the best ones...always easier said then done Thanks msheesha for all the help!!

Monica

I just looked and couldn't find her old posts either.

Maybe look at the questions they asked, what they said their concerns were, what they asked him about as being "strange" and address them point by point.

got a page long letter wrote up...have some friends editing it...wondering, how many pics should i send with it? Figured I should send some of our 3 mths there since they didn't look at them at the interview. Other question...should i send one long email or divide it up?? Thanks.

Monica

Yes, even if they said that.

Does martiniolive still have her posts up about what she did to fight her case being sent back? She full-on bombarded them, somehow got thru the consulate chief, etc, etc, etc.

Did you check her profile for past posts?

I know i sent her a PM, but couldn't find any of the old posts. So by bombarding u mean what exactly....calling & emailing everyday?? I'm really not good at this kinda stuff so any pointers on what i should (and shouldn't) say would be greatly apprecaited.

Monica

Monica,

I don't know the answer to that. Sorry.

Have you thought of sending a letter (via email and/or fax) to the consulate addressing any issues/concerns you think they might have? A woman I know said she wrote a rebuttal letter and the denial was reversed. Just a thought...

Evenif they said that it was sent to USCIS on June 14th??

still nothing from senator's office...have a feeling the 8 hr time difference is gonna cause problems with getting anything done Does DOS have accurate info on when the case ACTUALLY leaves the embassy??

Monica

I'm so sorry, Monica, that just sucks. The CO's seem so unpredictable, I hope this doesn't happen but I could imagine coming back on here in 6 months or so reporting that my plan of giving just a few innocuous samples backfired and they rejected us for not having enough evidence. Who knows! I also had a computer die early on in our chats, though I didn't lose as many as you did, less than a full month.

I understand that there is a lot of fraud and a lot of broken hearts coming out of Casa, but I really wonder if that percentage of relationships is "worth" all of the denials. I don't know how many of the fraudulent men who get entrance in the country otherwise behave as contributing, law-abiding members of society, versus how many end up getting government benefits that are never reimbursed, or commit crimes. But unless there's some greater societal impact of a few bad apples getting through, I personally would prefer that the government let women make their own mistakes and not be in the business of judging the validity of the relationship. Maybe if there's some grossly obvious "there is no way any person in the world except her thinks this is real" case, maybe. But if it's two people who have been living together for months and talking for a year, who share a common language????

Exactly...i seriously don't know how they can lump us in with the ppl who don't even know the basic information about their fiance's like: date of birth, where they r from, when they came to visit them even...its crazy...and they r worried about Hicham?!?!?! It all just makes me so mad...and sad...thinking of another yr & knowing that there is NO way to get my 4 yr old to understand WHY he can't be here with us

I completely agree. I plan on providing to the consulate: 1. screenshots of my inbox to show the quantity, dates, and subject lines of emails from my fiance, 2. a log of all of our calls, chats, etc. to show the duration and date, 3. maybe 3 or 4 sample emails just to show that we keep each other up-to-date on our lives, and 4. maybe 15 pages of IM's scattered throughout the last year, samples to show that we actually talk, but nothing too racy or mushy. I was planning on mostly providing small talk or day-to-day chatter, and if there's anything I think the consulate might interpret out of context I was going to redact it. Case in point, my fiance and I started JOKINGLY giving each other love-talk when we were flirting but definitely not actually involved or a real couple or actually meaning it. It was flirty but not serious, and I don't want the consulate to see it in print and conclude that he was making life-long promises to me at a stage when we actually still considered each other friends. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea? Also, doesn't Casablanca sometimes send men home after the interview and request more information, namely email and chat records? If that happens to us, then I guess it's out of our hands...although unless someone tells me otherwise, I'd still probably redact with a black marker, even if they request that I provide more pages. But my plan is to go heavy on pictures, perhaps get letters from family on both sides attesting to and approving of the relationship, and to go fairly light on emails and especially IM print-outs. I think it's great if a couple can prove that they talk for hours at a time everyday, but handing over the full print-outs leaves a lot of room for misunderstandings.

Anyway, that's just my opinion, and I haven't even filed the I-129F yet. I can't say which way is better. I can certainly see the other side, the argument that giving everything over shows you have nothing to hide. It's kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't, either way.

Yeah...i know what u mean...kind of regreting sending him with the nearly 300 pgs of conversations for the interview...but at the same time it sounds like their reason for the denial is that we loved eachother too much too soon...who can decide what is too soon??? Our first email was in January....the first conversations i had to give them weren't until beginning of May, so of course by then we were getting more serious about eachother...why else would we still be talking to eachother. I keep reading about havingto prove what they give as a reason for the denial as not being a good enough reason, but how do u do that when the proof is gone with a dead computer??? I really don't know...i'm just praying that the Senator's office can get it stopped & turned around.

Monica

Sure. However I am still skeptical of this. I guess it's because my Dad is a psychologist. I tend to want to look more deeply for reasons for things. Here is an interesting article on a related subject: http://www.pnas.org/.../35/12629.long. Certainly, one has to know a person more deeply to be able to tell if they are lying or not, because you don't know their particular socialization. I remember reading a lot about it when Scott Peterson was in the news. There were psychologists profiting off of him by writing about how you could tell he is lying. Also, I get a lot of training on how to be a better teacher, but I would have to say that it is through experience that I gain the most knowledge. Also, I have to deal with a lot of high risk students with very devious behavior, ad nauseum, but I still must handle them with care and treat them respectfully as human beings, even if I am sick of their behavior.

Also, I found the articles in the NYTimes that were posted lately very informational on how some people come across to Stokes people.

LOL...just breathe everybody As far as our case goes...Hicham doesn't know how to lie...lol...if something comes to his mind he says it...there isn't really a filter...can be a very good thing & a very bad thing...lol

Monica

So, that was a red flag for them.

I wonder why he wouldn't have told you that before. It would have saved you a bunch of time guessing!

Did you ask him how he answered the CO saying he could get a visa through other options?

Hicham said: I told him that I know that there are fakers but our case is true so that we will start everything from zero, meant to him that we will move to the second step marriage

If you don't mind me asking, how long after you started chatting did the "I love you" talk start? Just trying to get an idea what the CO considered to be too soon.

It was about 3 mths, but the problem i just realized (after reviewing the conversations we turned in) they didn't have the first 3 mths of conversations to see how the relationship started, because my computer died.

Monica

ok...new info...Hicham asked why he was denied...CO said because he called me his lasting love to early in the conversations we gave them...i only had available starting beginning of May...i lost the first couple mths of us talking when my computer died...ugg

Monica

Not sure if any of u have seen this article....i found it VERY interesting.

Denials of IV at Consulates & DHS petition revocations

Monica

I know our case isn't fraud, so that's all that matters to me...eventually the embassy will see the same thing...I think most of the ppl here r trying to express what the CO might thinking, not what they are actually thinking about our case...i may be wrong about what the others r thinking though (hope not ) All i know is that we r both strong & ready to do whatever is needed to get our family back together. You can kick us down, but we will get right back up, dust ourselves off & keep on goin

Monica

Monica, I'm glad that your senator is giving you some action and I'm glad that you're being proactive about this hurdle. I had 3 thoughts about possible red flags. Please know that I am just offering these as things to think about for fighting the denial. I could be totally wrong about them and I do NOT mean I don't believe your relationship. And I thought overall you had a strong case, to the point that when I heard your denial my heart sank and I thought, "Wow, if they denied, we don't stand a chance!" But here are 3 things that I think it wouldn't hurt to address. 1. The relative quickness between the time you met online and when you got engaged and filed. 2. That he has a brother in the United States already. I've read in other stories that having a relative in the U.S. can actually work against you, as it would give a potential motive for wanting to be here. Has the brother already naturalized? If the brother HAS naturalized but is not petitioning for any family to come over, maybe that would be worth pointing out? But if he has not naturalized yet and the family would have to wait for him to be able to sponsor, or especially if the brother is in the process of petitioning for their parents, then you might have to fight the perception that Hicham is just trying to get to the U.S. to reunite with his family the fastest way possible. 3. That you met on a Muslim site even though you weren't Muslim. It might make it look like Hicham changed his standards because you were American, like he was at first looking for a Muslim but when he found out you were American he didn't care that you didn't share his religion.

Again, please please please don't be offended. I'm not at all saying that I think any of this IS what Hicham was thinking. I am just trying to be as hyper-critical as I can to help you come up with responses to the worst that the CO might conclude.

Good luck, and I'm praying for you!

No worries...as i told msheesha...all opinions r accepted...cuz it can open my eyes to things i may not see And as far as him wanting to be with his family...Hicham has other ways of getting to the US, he doesn't need me to do so. As for quickness...I have seen many much quicker than mine (a friend of mine even) that were easily approved. And as for the Muslim site...he answered that the same way i would have (even though we had never discussed it...lol) a friend told me about the site & said it was a good one. But i know that was one of their issues too.

Monica

I really hope it works out for you. You already were there for a long time. Have you considered moving there with him? Maybe get married there and do a DCF?

have thought about it, but that would still bring up the issue of financial status, and i don't have a good co-sponsor to use, so notreally an option right now. Unless I can somehow find a job i can do from there & get paid up the wazzo...

Have your fiance write up a detailed review of ALL the questions he was asked.

How did he respond to them? confidently and honestly

Did he mess up on any dates? Did he stumble on facts? no to both

Did he know your personal history? a resounding YES..we talk ALOT

Does he speak English? English teacher

Do you have a large age gap? he's 5 yrs older

Did you have a short online courtship? we didn't get past friendship for about 3-4 mths

How quickly did he propose? he didn't propose till my 1st visit...i know many propose before meeting

How many trips did you make? 2...1st for 2 wks...2nd 3 mths

Does he have family in the US? one sibling

Cultural/social/religious differences? of course...he's moroccan, i'm american...lol i'm undecided on religion at this point

Financial/education/social status of the beneficiary? he has no problems here

Large disparity in physical appearance? i don't think it should matter, but i know it might to them

Somewhere in there lies the clue to his denial.

You are right. It is probably a combination of things. What popped out at me was that he proposed to you 8 months after you met online and the first time you met. Then you moved there within the first year. This is a dramatic change for you and your child. Then they told him he could get his visa under other conditions. This suggests to me that the potential is there for him to get the visa, but perhaps you have been hasty and they are going to make you work at it longer and be more patient in order to get it. Thus providing more evidence of stability in the relationship. I was thinking this because on their website, one of their warnings is that you should know the person at least a year before making decisions.

Thats what i figured to...they are testing us....and that's fine with us...test away...they can't break us Absence makes the heart grow stronger...I always said if we can make it through ALL of this...we can make it through anything!!!

Monica

This is totally just a guess, and I could be way off base, but potentially something to consider. They asked about your financial situation and they asked about why you were on a Muslim site. They could be making leaps and bounds of assumptions (or I could be about what they are doing), but the CO could suspect that you are being paid to bring him here. Add to that, as you said, his family has money, etc.

I could be totally wrong. But, it's something that jumped out about their questioning.

If they know nothing about your financial situation, again, they could be making assumptions about your financial situation.

They could be thinking a million things...i'm really hoping my senator's office can find out exactly what. that brings up a question...if they assume i'm being paid off, but its not the case at all....how do u prove to them otherwise???

Monica

P.S. I didn't mean for them to be preseaved as rich...i just meant that they survive on what they have...they aren't desperate like many of the fraud cases.

Do you want any thoughts about potential red flags that they may be thinking, based on re-reading the interview? I could be totally off base, and it could be useless, so let me know if you want thoughts.

Any thoughts are accepted...i know everyone has their own opinions...and i'm open to them I know it helps to have someone not personally involved in the case to give their opinions...no emotions involved

Monica

To those of u who keep asking about our interview & what was asked...here is the link to the original post:

Casa Interview Results

Monica

they didn't ask for any financial information, and he answered everything correctly