Always+Forever

You are not wrong. Sooo many women who date/marry MENA men get used and treated like #######. I think the reason why people get so frustrated about the methods of the Casa consulate is because too often, they seem to have their mind made up through preconceptions before the beneficiary ever walks through the door- and then they don't allow the beneficiary's evidence to be presented at interview to counteract the CO's preconceptions. And as many people who have had experience with this consulate will tell you, they can be quite shady about how they handle people's cases.

No one who's stepped foot into a MENA country is going to deny the kind of fraud that goes on there. If they do, they're naive and foolish. But people should be given an opportunity to properly present THEMSELVES, as opposed to being lumped into a negative stereotype (i.e. slimy, manipulative Moroccan men who'd sell their mother for a green card). If everyone is presumed a liar upon entry to the consulate, and the CO's are being too lazy to actually look at evidence- that's unfair.

That's why people get frustrated about Casablanca.

We're not all fat and old and ugly as sin, btw.. and not all of us are with men 1/2 our age.. lol

Sarah

Very true...they don't give a reason...they get up your hope (bring your passport to 2nd interview) and then dash it (flat out denial). Really makes me wonder what they base their decisions on sometimes. Because I am like Sarah...Hicham is 5 yrs OLDER then me, and my daughter & i spent 3 months with him and his family. Another thing I'm wondering...some ppl say they tell the embassy they (the USC) paid their own way & others have their fiance or family pay their way. I can see both of these 2 ways...cuz it can be viewed if the USC pays then the fiance doesn't have the money so is desperate to get out of where they are, but also if the fiance pays it could be seen as they are "paying you off" to marry them. So what do u do?? LOL

Monica

I'm going to say something unpopular so try not to flame me.

More than half the MENA-American couples I spot here on VJ -- I have a hard time buying that theirs is a true and genuine, loving relationship. I can't, in good conscience, say that I believe it. I'd like to but I don't. Call me cynical. Most of them smell of fraud and exhibit the 'classic signs.' If I, as a neutral, third-party observer, can't buy it then how do you expect a CO, sitting at the highest fraud consulate in the world, to buy it? Really, come on, now.

I come from a 3rd world country, believe me, I have seen desperation and poverty and the lengths people would go to, to escape it.

I have to agree with Stasshi here. The Casa consulate has a difficult job. Their job is to protect America - it's borders and it's citizens.

Whether you, the USC petitioner feel like you need 'protecting' or not -- seriously, some of the women on here do seem to be blind as bats. Flying half-way across the world to marry someone who popped the question after talking online for two months is not 'spontaneous' and 'romantic' but just plain dumb. There. I said it. "He loves me even though I'm old as his mother and ugly as sin. This is what true love is. He is humiliated by his friends and peers but he takes it like a man. He is -- my man." I don't know whether to laugh or cry. People would sell their mothers for a greencard. And you think a few months of tasteless jokes is a tough price to pay for a GC?

I hear you and agree...mostly I have also experienced first hand what these Moroccan men are willing to do to get a green card...they are smooth and VERY convincing...and I have seen cases as well that I wondered...then there are others that look like they just "click". I don't have ill feelings towards the COs for denying us...I know they have a CRAZY hard job...one that I would NEVER want to do. And I've also heard that a HUGE percentage of ppl denied K1s don't refile K1 or CR1...its crazy hard to get through the denial process, and is something that someone who wants a green card, usually won't waste their time on, cuz they usually have another on the line to fall back on. Believe me...after my past experience I still had a bit of doubt too until I lived with him and his family for 3 mths, and how his parents are together & all of his siblings with their spouses. But I know there are still many out there searching for the green ticket. And I feel so sorry for the ones that get caught unknowingly in their trap. Its hard to step back from your relationship and look at it with an outsiders point of view. That's why I'm glad I have great friends that aren't afraid to tell me exactly what they think...lol If it was me...i rather someone tell me now, then finding out when he steps off the plane & runs, or even worse...waits till he gets citizenship & runs. Ok...I'm babbling and I don't really know why...lol I hope everyone has found "the one" that truely loves them. And I wish everyone the bestof luck in their tedious visa journeys. And thank u sachinky for your upfront view on things...I for one appreciate an outsiders point of view...even if i may not want to hear what they have to say sometimes

Monica

Where did you see that??? I can't wait to read about it!!!

On her profile...she said they said approved pending the I864...guess they aren't taking the other one for K1s now...interesting i thought.

Monica

Ok...not married yet, but will be soon So figured that would count.

Morocco

Male

No

FINALLY!!! An approval from Casa!!!! CONGRATS Linda!!!

INSHALLAH its good news & u get to hear APPROVED soon!!!! So exciting!!!

Monica

This is probably a stupid question, but i want to be sure. My future brother-in-law said he would be a co-sponsor if needed...i was told it wouldn't be a good idea for the I134 through the Casa embassy....but what about the I864??? I'm looking for a good enough job to cover everything, but I'm not sure how they will take it being new income, etc.

Monica

thanks Vanessa...i wish u & your husband the best of luck on your upcoming interview

Monica

So are the requirements the same for the I864 the same for all embassies?? Do they focus mainly on your current income or the last 3 yrs of taxes?? In other words...if your tax returns show that you didn't meet the poverty line, but your current job shows that you meet it, will they be ok with that? Thanks for any pointers & help. And does it matter if the job is new?

Thanks.

Monica

P.S. Posted here since it seems like Casa has rules of their own

Thought this might help others.

http://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/LingChe_NVC_ShortCut

Anything that can speed up the process can't hurt!!

Monica

nope...linda hasn't been on since early this morning Hoping for some good news

I 2nd that....GOOD LUCK to everybody!!!

Monica

I added you to the tracker I know it doesnt make you feel better but per several emails I have received Morocco seems to be doing this alot and one of the couples is married and have known each ot her for 15 years so it seems like a certain percentage is going to be sent back to USCIS. Hang in there it will all work out. Dont rush the marriage he will not get here any faster it might even delay your case.

What about those of us from morocco that were denied & then returned to USCIS for review? Am I right that California just lets the K1s expire? I also heard that they don't give u the reason for the denial. So if u could update me on the list.

HichaMonica 2nd interview 6/14/2010 denied, returned to USCIS for review

I figure life is to short to stress over the stuff I have no control over. Helps that Hicham is so strong & supportive & positive himself

Monica

Monica,

I'm so sorry about all your pain and disappointment. I can't imagine how you would be feeling after Casa given you hope and ripped it away from you. Stay positive and keep your chin up, everything will work out in the end!

Aya

Thank u Aya. I figure everything happens for a reason, so we will do whatever it takes keep on fighting!!

Monica

yeah...i don't want Hicham to miss anymore time seeing my daughter grow than he has to. So we will move on with the next step asap. Marriage seems to look like the easiest & quickest option, since California won't be reviewing the K1.

Monica

We filed the I-130 without withdrawing the denied K1. It worked out okay for us. Before the I-130 interview, we got the letter back that the K-1 was inactive/expired/whatever the right terminology is.

So, for us, it wasn't a problem. We followed an attorney's advice - good, bad, or indifferent, I'm not sure how it works out for everyone. I could be wrong, but it seems like a crapshoot. There was someone on here who talked to the DOS and was told the case was being re-affirmed and sent back to CASA for another interview and processing. But, it turned out to be an error, and it wasn't re-affirmed at all. I don't know the % of returned cases that are re-affirmed and sent back to the consulate. I don't think high at all.

I don't think so either...I know our case will expire before it gets anywhere near the US...so I guess I will just send a rebuttle letter with the I130 & keep my fingers crossed About all we can do...like u said..its a crapshoot...depends on who's handling, what kinda day, etc.

Monica

Ok...been researching what to do in regards to the K1 case before filing CR1. I have attached below some info I've found from other posters along the way. It looks like you need to be sure to find out the reason for the original denial & prove it wrong before any on the visa CR1 or otherwise has a chance. Hope this helps others going through what we are.

If the K1 was denied at the consulate, but USCIS has not made a decision yet, then the petition is not yet dead. Filing an I-130 may not necessarily kill it, either. Apparently, there are people who've received NOID's on a returned K1 petition, and ignored them because they'd already filed a CR1 petition. Failure to respond to the NOID caused a P6C finding against the beneficiary (material misrepresentation). When they showed up for their CR1 interview they were told they were inadmissible due to the finding of fraud, their visa was denied, and they had to try to get a hardship waiver to overcome it.

The new CSC tactic described in the pinned topic by Marc Ellis could also conceivably be applied to a CR1 petition filed after a K1 petition was returned to USCIS. In those cases, CSC even SAID the K1 petition was dead, and still used it as a basis for a NOID on a subsequently filed petition.

There's certainly no danger in filing a CR1 petition after a K1 visa has been denied at the consulate. There may, however, be danger in presuming a K1 petition is dead. If you get a NOID then you must respond to it, even if it's for the original K1 petition. If you don't then you're inviting USCIS to conclude that the CO's accusation was true.

Assuming the visa was not denied for an inadmissibility, the most common reason for a consulate to use when denying a visa is "sham relationship for the purpose of evading immigration law". This constitutes an accusation by the CO that the beneficiary is lying about their relationship. The accusation is a time bomb. According to Marc, it sits in the beneficiary's file as a "P6C marker", referring to INA section 212, paragraph 6C, which deals with misrepresentation.

At the point that USCIS receives the petition from the consulate, the accusation is just that - an accusation. Whether it becomes anything else depends on what USCIS decides to do with it. If they reaffirm the approval of the petition, then they are discarding the accusation, essentially saying they don't buy the CO's argument. CSC had a habit of just letting the petition approval expire so they wouldn't have to deal with adjudicating the CO's accusation. Lately, they've been resurrecting those expired petitions and using the CO's denial as a basis for a NOID on the second petition, actually quoting the CO's reason for denying the first visa as a basis for the NOID on the second petition.

However it happens, if you get a NOID and don't respond to it, or if you respond and USCIS isn't satisfied and either denies the second petition or revokes the approval of the first petition, then the P6C marker becomes a "finding of fact" - the beneficiary is guilty of material misrepresentation - an inadmissibility that requires a waiver. A response of "no contest", "No intention to pursue", or anything else that does not rebut the CO's accusation will still result in the finding of fact being entered. Withdrawing the petition after the NOID is issued would have the same effect as not rebutting the NOID.

If the NOID is issued against the second petition, then you must successfully rebut the NOID in order to save the petition. If the NOID is issued against the first petition, then you still must rebut, but after the petition is reaffirmed it will either be administratively closed because the petitioner is now married to the beneficiary, or the petitioner can simply withdraw the petition and USCIS will close it. The point is that when that first petition dies it must be either because USCIS just let it expire, or because they reaffirmed it and then administratively closed it. If it dies because USCIS revoked the approval, then the beneficiary is facing some problems at the second interview.

I don't know of any sure fire way to force that first petition to go away. It dies when USCIS decides that it dies. Once a petition has been returned, if the petitioner wishes to continue to pursue the relationship, I think they should be prepared to respond with evidence in case they end up getting a NOID.

In these situations, when filing an I-130 prior to hearing from USCIS about the I-129F, I suggest including an I-129F withdrawal letter with the I-130 filing. I've seen it work just fine in a California case.

If you are serious to going and getting married, and file the I-130 -

then send of a letter to USCIS and US Embassy to WITHDRAW THE I-129F PETITION, on or about the same day that you file for the I-130. This will clear up any silliness that might linger ..

Whats everyones opinion on all of this info...most of it seems recently posted. Anyone have any experience with a K1 denial coming back to get u with a refile or CR1??

Thanks!!

Monica

Sorry that it was too late. Do you know when you'll be able to head back to get married? That is so frustrating, since you just came back from a long trip out there. Had you heard about this at his initial interview you may have had time to get married while you were still there.

Exactly...we are still trying to work out all the details, but it will be soon...we wanna get the CR1 started asap...my daughter is not understanding why he can't be here...and i don't know how to explain it do she will understand

Monica

I 100% agree...they need to hear some good news over there...maybe we should start a topic for Moroccan success stories & then send the link to the embassy Any little thing might help. Our case got out of Casa so we will be right behind u with the CR1....atleast I have my rebuttle letter already written...lol

Monica

Hello to all that have been following our case & thank u for all of your great advice & support. Called the embassy this morning & they restated that our case left 6/14, which I knew wasn't possible since Hicham's appt was at 3pm...lol So I called DOS & they said it left 6/16 So it looks like I was a day late sending my rebuttle letter...so to others that get in this situation (Inshallah none of u will!!) take action ASAP!!! I thought we'd atleast have till the end of the week to fight back...guess not. So from what I understand California just lets the cases expire...and ours will be expired before it gets back to the US anyway...so we will be on to the CR1 path, unless anyone knows of any other options that I haven't found yet?! Hope everybody has a good day & we start hearing some approvals with the upcoming interviews!!!!

Monica

The joys of the mentallity of doing it later...we have time...no worries u know what i'm talkin about!! 2 weeks...wow...time is flying!!! Hoping to hear ANYTHING on our case tomorrow. From what I understand...if it leaves Casa, we don't really have a chance, since California just lets them expire (if i'm wrong here someone PLEASE correct me) So I will be heading back to get married & start all over again...what's another yr compared to a lifetime...doesn't sound good when i write it either. Tomorrow will tell & Hopefully u guys will get all your papers Squeaky so no more havin to wrry about it Just tell him...u don't do it, u're locked out...hehehe

Monica

Sorry, squeaky, don't mean to go off-topic, but imho this is important...

Monica - we know you want to vent, we know that you want advice, we know that you want to express how you feel - we know because we all do the same lol...what I am trying to tell you is please bear in mind that some information can be misinterpreted and might be used against you. If you can't understand that, then so be it.

Don't worry, squeaky, I'll be off now. Good luck to you and everyone else with your applications

This.

I really am going now, bye!

Yes, I understand that any information can be misinterpreted....either here or the information that we give them, that's why I was saying that its good for us to try to explain to them what we mean, that way we don't get misinterpreted. Anything can be read in to just about any statement....I think it's our & especially our SOs jobs to make sure that the CO understands correctly the information provided to them. And if I remember right (i may be wrong) most of what I have posted is related to what the CO has said to us & trying to get more information to be able to handle the situation correctly. And I greatly appreciate those that have been helpful & supportive. I'm sharing so that others can learn from our experience & hopefully not make some of the same mistakes that we did.

Monica

seriously....i don't care if they read what i post...i post how i feel, because my relationship is important to me & i wanna do whatever i can to get us together...so hopefully they will learn something about us by reading our posts.

Monica

yeah that's why they never look at the proof lol

They took our 300 pgs of conversations at the first interview....then gave all the evidence back at the refusal appointment (don't consider it an interview since no questions were asked) including the original stuff i sent with the 129F...should make for an interesting review when it gets back to the US.

Monica