Mithra

i think it was dear abby that said "it's better to be alone than wish you were."

No, Resha, not every man is an "a-hole." My husband, my father, my brothers, my husband's father and brothers, and so many more - none of them are "a-holes." It makes me sad to think about what kind of experiences in your life could have led you to such a conclusion. And it disturbs me that you would want to remain married to a man that you describe in this way.
Anyway - as I said before - no one can decide how you will accept being treated except you. I don't believe that anyone here wishes you any ill or any more pain - I think we all wish you and your daughter a happy and safe life. You said you are in counseling, which is a very good start. But please remember that it takes two to make a marriage work, no matter how hard one person may try. Your husband needs counseling as well. He (and you !) have to do a lot more than just be willing to change - you both have to make the effort to actually change.
Treating each other with respect is the foundation of a successful marriage, and it's a two-way street. If you really think your marriage can be repaired, remember that referring to your husband in terms like "a-hole" is not respectful - even if it wasn't said to his face, or only said in anger and frustration.
I do wish you and your family the best.

The way you worded it made it sound like being a doormat is an exclusively American female trait. I agree that some of the women on this board or have been on this board have let themselves become doormats but a lot have not. They either nip it in the bud or eliminate the problem (the husband).
It's not purely love that's keeping her with her husband but I do believe that's what she thinks it is. Love, attachment, desire to keep her family intact, not wanting to feel like a failure, not wanting to hear I told ya so's, not wanting to feel foolish for spending time and money bringing her husband here, etc. I think it's all those things and probably more.

I'm not going to go around and around about this but in the original post you stated you didn't know what was wrong with American women. Not some so it reads as - all. You may have meant some. I get what you mean though. I used to have way more patience and love for bickering over technicalities but not so much anymore. lol.
I think the topic of red flags and what to look for in a good mate has been discussed ad nauseum around these parts. Some women will always make bad choices and some women will always go for cute, sexy, exotic, etc. instead of going for quality. Those are the ones that have repeatedly imported men from MENA and have failed repeatedly as well.

The way you worded it made it sound like being a doormat is an exclusively American female trait. I agree that some of the women on this board or have been on this board have let themselves become doormats but a lot have not. They either nip it in the bud or eliminate the problem (the husband).
It's not purely love that's keeping her with her husband but I do believe that's what she thinks it is. Love, attachment, desire to keep her family intact, not wanting to feel like a failure, not wanting to hear I told ya so's, not wanting to feel foolish for spending time and money bringing her husband here, etc. I think it's all those things and probably more.

The way you worded it made it sound like being a doormat is an exclusively American female trait. I agree that some of the women on this board or have been on this board have let themselves become doormats but a lot have not. They either nip it in the bud or eliminate the problem (the husband).
It's not purely love that's keeping her with her husband but I do believe that's what she thinks it is. Love, attachment, desire to keep her family intact, not wanting to feel like a failure, not wanting to hear I told ya so's, not wanting to feel foolish for spending time and money bringing her husband here, etc. I think it's all those things and probably more.

I'm not going to go around and around about this but in the original post you stated you didn't know what was wrong with American women. Not some so it reads as - all. You may have meant some. I get what you mean though. I used to have way more patience and love for bickering over technicalities but not so much anymore. lol.
I think the topic of red flags and what to look for in a good mate has been discussed ad nauseum around these parts. Some women will always make bad choices and some women will always go for cute, sexy, exotic, etc. instead of going for quality. Those are the ones that have repeatedly imported men from MENA and have failed repeatedly as well.

I'm married and living with a MENA man and while he's certainly no perfect angel, he's not disrespectful, abusive or unfaithful. I wouldn't even classify him as irresponsible even though sometimes *I* think he is. Like Jenn said it's mostly maturity/personality and being spoiled (in my opinion) before coming to the U.S. He has improved a lot since coming here and realizing marriage is the real deal and not a fantasy of love and romance. I have to say that impending fatherhood has really made him step up and remove any silliness that may have been lingering. Not to brag or anything but he's been absolutely awesome the past couple months since I've become pregnant. Very understanding, patient, attentive, etc. My bitchiness hasn't phased him one bit which, I think, shows a great amount of self control considering how bad I can be at times. I'm really proud of how far he's come since arriving in the US. Probably more than the poll is looking for but...

I'm married and living with a MENA man and while he's certainly no perfect angel, he's not disrespectful, abusive or unfaithful. I wouldn't even classify him as irresponsible even though sometimes *I* think he is. Like Jenn said it's mostly maturity/personality and being spoiled (in my opinion) before coming to the U.S. He has improved a lot since coming here and realizing marriage is the real deal and not a fantasy of love and romance. I have to say that impending fatherhood has really made him step up and remove any silliness that may have been lingering. Not to brag or anything but he's been absolutely awesome the past couple months since I've become pregnant. Very understanding, patient, attentive, etc. My bitchiness hasn't phased him one bit which, I think, shows a great amount of self control considering how bad I can be at times. I'm really proud of how far he's come since arriving in the US. Probably more than the poll is looking for but...

I don't think it's necessarily American women who put up with this sort of behavior. I'm sure there are women all over the world that put up with it but we only see the American women doing it because we're American women on this board. I agree with Julianna in that the men would get more family/social pressures to "behave" in their home countries. I know Mid Eastern men here that act a fool (men who have Mid Eastern wives) but because they are here and their families are there, they get away with more longer. Those women put up with it because they're kinda stuck here without many options and usually with a kid or two or three to take care of.
I think it's sad that the OP has devalued herself and is putting up with this behavior. I know it's because she loves her husband and isn't able to step away from the situation enough to get herself out. The husband probably got coaching both here and back home about how American women are push overs and are willing to pay for everything. He got here and low and behold - everyone was right! Life is sweet and he can manipulate his wife into feeling like a bad wife because she isn't catering to him properly. He also knows that he's stuck her with his child so she's going to do her best to hold it together for the good of the family. It's all sad. If the husband leaves that would be the best thing for her. She would be the winner in the end because she has the most precious thing - the child.
This is purely my opinion based on years of seeing this kind of story on this board.

LOL @ greenies.
Actually the "greenies" who act so defensive and victimized sound a lot ruder in their comments than the "rude" ones giving them advice. What most would read as matter of fact they read as mean and rude. My kids are kind of like that when I tell them "no" or something else they don't want to hear. In their minds I've turned into this mean, awful screaming beast when really I just said what they didn't want to hear in a normal, calm manner. Absolutely nothing to do with this thread but I find it funny anyways.

I don't think it really has to do with class. Upper class just have a different means of escape than the lower classes and that is about affordibility. I imagine he'd be out on a yacht with his cousin if they had one as soon as be playing pool.
I think part of the problem is that the culture clash hits here. I bet if someone jacked around like this in the home country, the woman has a better chance of recourse-- in that there are social pressures that could be made. Here the guy is free from social pressures. This happens with us too though... in that the guy who is always out with his friends at a bar ends up with the locks changed and whatnot. We just know it will end in divorce.
I think this is it.
I am sorry to hear that. But maybe things are becoming more clear and you can figure out how to move forward from this instead of just treading water. And you have your daughter, which is awesome.

We have also seen cases here in MENA where the women clearly did NOT tolerate this type of behavior - not even for one day.
It's normal to remember the drama rather than the non-drama, so sometimes the many successful relationships may kind of get disregarded. Maybe I should make a poll ! (although it still wouldn't be anywhere near acceptible social science.)
I am not convinced that the MENA sub-forum (or even VJ at large) is a representative cross-section of American society or the attitudes of American women in general. Americans marrying foreign spouses are actually a very small segment of the U.S. population, and women marrying MENA men are an even smaller group.
But it's always fascinating to read the various subjective characterizations of *fill-in-the-blank-nationality* women (or men) which are made all across VJ (and spark endlessly entertaining discussions !) What one person perceives as common is the exact opposite of what another perceives.
I agree that for even one woman (or man !) to put up with disrespect, mistreatment, abuse, etc. from their spouse is one too many. But I agree with Mithra that the problem is not some kind of "American woman" thing.

I don't think it's necessarily American women who put up with this sort of behavior. I'm sure there are women all over the world that put up with it but we only see the American women doing it because we're American women on this board. I agree with Julianna in that the men would get more family/social pressures to "behave" in their home countries. I know Mid Eastern men here that act a fool (men who have Mid Eastern wives) but because they are here and their families are there, they get away with more longer. Those women put up with it because they're kinda stuck here without many options and usually with a kid or two or three to take care of.
I think it's sad that the OP has devalued herself and is putting up with this behavior. I know it's because she loves her husband and isn't able to step away from the situation enough to get herself out. The husband probably got coaching both here and back home about how American women are push overs and are willing to pay for everything. He got here and low and behold - everyone was right! Life is sweet and he can manipulate his wife into feeling like a bad wife because she isn't catering to him properly. He also knows that he's stuck her with his child so she's going to do her best to hold it together for the good of the family. It's all sad. If the husband leaves that would be the best thing for her. She would be the winner in the end because she has the most precious thing - the child.
This is purely my opinion based on years of seeing this kind of story on this board.

I don't think it's necessarily American women who put up with this sort of behavior. I'm sure there are women all over the world that put up with it but we only see the American women doing it because we're American women on this board. I agree with Julianna in that the men would get more family/social pressures to "behave" in their home countries. I know Mid Eastern men here that act a fool (men who have Mid Eastern wives) but because they are here and their families are there, they get away with more longer. Those women put up with it because they're kinda stuck here without many options and usually with a kid or two or three to take care of.
I think it's sad that the OP has devalued herself and is putting up with this behavior. I know it's because she loves her husband and isn't able to step away from the situation enough to get herself out. The husband probably got coaching both here and back home about how American women are push overs and are willing to pay for everything. He got here and low and behold - everyone was right! Life is sweet and he can manipulate his wife into feeling like a bad wife because she isn't catering to him properly. He also knows that he's stuck her with his child so she's going to do her best to hold it together for the good of the family. It's all sad. If the husband leaves that would be the best thing for her. She would be the winner in the end because she has the most precious thing - the child.
This is purely my opinion based on years of seeing this kind of story on this board.

I don't think it's necessarily American women who put up with this sort of behavior. I'm sure there are women all over the world that put up with it but we only see the American women doing it because we're American women on this board. I agree with Julianna in that the men would get more family/social pressures to "behave" in their home countries. I know Mid Eastern men here that act a fool (men who have Mid Eastern wives) but because they are here and their families are there, they get away with more longer. Those women put up with it because they're kinda stuck here without many options and usually with a kid or two or three to take care of.
I think it's sad that the OP has devalued herself and is putting up with this behavior. I know it's because she loves her husband and isn't able to step away from the situation enough to get herself out. The husband probably got coaching both here and back home about how American women are push overs and are willing to pay for everything. He got here and low and behold - everyone was right! Life is sweet and he can manipulate his wife into feeling like a bad wife because she isn't catering to him properly. He also knows that he's stuck her with his child so she's going to do her best to hold it together for the good of the family. It's all sad. If the husband leaves that would be the best thing for her. She would be the winner in the end because she has the most precious thing - the child.
This is purely my opinion based on years of seeing this kind of story on this board.

I don't think it's necessarily American women who put up with this sort of behavior. I'm sure there are women all over the world that put up with it but we only see the American women doing it because we're American women on this board. I agree with Julianna in that the men would get more family/social pressures to "behave" in their home countries. I know Mid Eastern men here that act a fool (men who have Mid Eastern wives) but because they are here and their families are there, they get away with more longer. Those women put up with it because they're kinda stuck here without many options and usually with a kid or two or three to take care of.
I think it's sad that the OP has devalued herself and is putting up with this behavior. I know it's because she loves her husband and isn't able to step away from the situation enough to get herself out. The husband probably got coaching both here and back home about how American women are push overs and are willing to pay for everything. He got here and low and behold - everyone was right! Life is sweet and he can manipulate his wife into feeling like a bad wife because she isn't catering to him properly. He also knows that he's stuck her with his child so she's going to do her best to hold it together for the good of the family. It's all sad. If the husband leaves that would be the best thing for her. She would be the winner in the end because she has the most precious thing - the child.
This is purely my opinion based on years of seeing this kind of story on this board.

Thanks for your concern. Everything is just fine for me. I'm not the police of the forum but I do have the right to speak my mind and if something doesn't strike me or anyone else as cool then I or you or anyone has the right to say so. Just like you did right now. Only I don't express condescending and false concern for others' well being just because their opinions differ from my own. This is similar to accusing women of having their periods or not getting laid when they're not particularly agreeable. That is absurd.

Did "iceyspots" give you permission to tell her story and name names on here? If not - totally uncool. That is not your story to tell. If you were going to tell it you should've done it anonymously. That's not right.

It is what it is. You can't change the truth about certain relationships. I think almost all of us going through this process have had some strange feelings regarding hearing stories of fraud along the way. There does come a time where you have to be secure in your own relationship and try not to pay attention to the stories. I would be willing to bet half if not more of the women who have gone through this have fought with their spouses over some ####### story they've read on here. Most won't admit it though. I'll admit the stories affected me during my "visa journey" and I did feel somewhat insecure especially before my husband came here. And when he did come here I still didn't relax because of the other stories. The stories of what happens after they get here ie abuse, cheating, etc. I finally had enough of letting that affect my life and let it go. If he was going to cheat, lie, leave, etc he was going to do whether or not I was uptight about it. The best thing I ever did was let go of the insecurity. Try to let go now. If not, don't read these threads. I know it's hard to avoid them but try. It does help.

I read correctly. You said you would never insult me. I never insulted you and wouldn't. I'm not angry at all actually. I'm just a tad more down to earth and realistic that a lot of ladies on this forum. Maybe those of us who don't subscribe to husband/fiance worship are just angry down deep. Is that it? Maybe because I live with my husband and don't see everything as candy and roses that makes me angry. Because I don't think my husband is the be all end all most awesome, gorgeous, infallible god of a man that must mean I hate my life. Because I don't post pics of myself and my husband all done up in Egyptian garb with glittery accents that makes me bitter and miserable. Because I don't b!tch about evil mean COs that must mean my life sucks. Oh and I don't like when women come on here spilling other ppls' stories. God I'm such a rotten b!tch for disliking that.

With all due respect, and I'm not picking on you specifically, I think that some of the things I've bolded in your post, are some of the things that bring out the negativity sometimes.
And, again, I don't mean to direct this directly at your statements because I've seen a bazillion statements like this here in MENA. They have affectionately been labelled "rainbows and unicorns" by women who are been on here forever.
I don't recall how long exactly you've actually spent physically in the same country as your husband, so again, I'm not directed this at you. But, comments like these are frequently tossed around by people whose spouses have not yet gotten here, and for those living with their husbands, the comments really do bring about a lot a roll of the eyes. Simply because many people who make these statements have spent a pathetically little amount of time with their fiance/spouse, etc. And, the time they have spent has not been "real life" time.
So, I know that when the lollipops and rainbows and "perfect for each other" and "we are one" and "we are soulmates" and "the consulate is torturing us because the CO wants someone as hot and wonderful and perfect as my man" and "he's my life and my everything" and blah, blah, blah, blah blah comments are made when the couple has physically spent one or two weeks together ON VACATION, then it brings out people who have lived more of the experience - to warn - to express - to verbalize - that it's not all lollipops, rainbows and unicorns.
And, then on the other hand, it's not all scammers either. It's somewhere in the middle. It just seems like the two "groups" on here, if you will, bring out the extremes in each other. When the lollipop gang is chirping about rainbows and perfection, the others want to bring out the reality, and when the reality is being talked about the others want to talk about "perfection" and "soulmates" and "he's my everything", and "we're perfect together".
There's not a lot of balance on MENA lately and the worst is usually brought out in the two extremes.
Just an observation, for what it's worth. And, again, I used some of your words, but not directly at you, because as I said, it's common phrasing here, and I just was using them as examples.

Just to put things in perspective a bit - across the board MANY couples who went through immigration when I did have gone their separate ways. It's not just a MENA thing - but the addition of occurrences of fraud combined with those that just don't plain work out makes the % higher for MENA. People are even starting to meet on VJ and hook up/get married, etc. It's quite an interesting result. The outlook is just not good and it makes me incredibly sad to see one of my friends deal with a difficult situation after being so hopeful and (sometimes unfortunately) starry-eyed. So, I guess if reading some of the old-timer's experiences is upsetting - the upper forums are really much more supportive and cheerleading based. The Regionals are kinda more "real" and have a much higher % of people who have already walked the walk through immigration and are dealing with the (much harder) adjustment to life phase.

I guess we are somewhat of a success story, although Wadi doesn't have his citizenship yet, so the verdict is still out. I kid, I kid.
Anyway, we met almost 8 years ago now - we were both living in Genoa, Italy. We dated "traditionally" I guess, and then lived with each other for a while there as well. We went through the K1 process back in 2005 and have been married for over 5 years. Had our first child in 2009.
Right now, things are good, but it hasn't always been smooth sailing. We are a lot more different due to our upbringings than I realized when we were all wrapped up in the romance. It hasn't been anything insurmountable, but I would say that intercultural marriages are much more challenging overall. I think that when we met we were both already compromising in a way by living in Italy - more fast-paced than Morocco, more laid-back than the U.S. Moving to the U.S. was my comfort zone, and Wadi had to be the one to stretch. It's an ongoing process.
Now we have the greatest thing in common, our love for our child, that helps bridge our divides and makes us work extra hard to understand where the other is coming from. We're making a life here together - my career is going well, his business is starting to take off, we're thinking about when we'd like to add to our family. All in all, things are pretty good, and I wish the same for all of you.

Haven't you been to the various offices in Egypt for stamps and such? It's like a party in there. People shooting the breeze, drinking tea, smoking and just having a good old time while ppl are waiting to take care of business. Then they treat you like you're interupting them when you want something signed or stamped. It's terrible. Does not surprise me that ppl are laughing and whooping it up at the embassy like that.