I received my kids' certificates of citizenship few days ago ( Through N600 application). They are under 14. The letter says parents can sign for the kids. I thought not to do it till they are over 14 and have them sign it themselves ( since this is going to be with them for the rest of their life and better to have their own signature on), i was just wondering, when applying for the passport ( when i obviously have to provide these certificates as the proof of citizenship for them) would that be a problem not having a signature on ! ( i guess it would be, so any way to go around this?)

3 minutes ago, Jake Lake said:

Passport is a joke! They can deny it anytime and you can do nothing about it! ( lots of examples here and there), cert of citizenship is something else!  Department of state ( the one issuing passport) is not the one who can confirm your citizenship when certain issues come up! And their judgment  can be questioned easily and they can dent passport renewal in a snap! But cert if citizenship ( issued by USCIS ) is not that easy to play with! And USCIS is the only source in this country whose words are counted when your citizenshio status is in question!  Not to mention  it never expires and you dont need to renew it and pay the fees over and over along with all those stupid popaper works that go with that at every passport renewal time! 

 

 

 

 

Agree 100% 

I refer those who think a passport is so reliable and a proof of citizenship, to this post; 

Like i said before, apply for N600 as soon as you naturalize, before future complications and save your kids and yourself lots of frustrations, extra costs and worries . Laws keep changing and you dont want to get caught in appeals and courts after courts just to get what is your right now and might not be then!  If saving an n600 fee is all matters to you, then be happy with your passport untill it is your turn! 

15 minutes ago, geowrian said:

This is incorrect.

1) A US passport - even if expired - is valid evidence of US citizenship. Even if they refuse to renew the passport, it's still evidence of being a US citizen.

2) In the case you mentioned regarding the ISIS bride, her entire citizenship was found (legally or not is debatable...) to been granted by mistake. This would make her naturalization certificate invalid as well. It's not any harder than declaring the passport invalid.

3) What is she going to do with a US naturalization certificate abroad? In what way would it / could it help her?

 

Again, the US passport acts as evidence of US citizenship. If somebody requires seeing specific citizenship documents, that would actually be a violation of law.

If you read my post one more time carefully, you will understand i was not questioning the fact a passport is an evidence of citizenship!  But based on the facts i see , passport can be questioned easily like the case of ( isisi gal) but certificate of citizenship will be harder to deny! of course you could go with a passport and fight all your life court to court to get to this reality that why i did not spend that damn money to get the certificate and finish this once and for all!  What i am trying to clarify is the fact that at some points in life ( specially when loans and financial matters are concerned as a USCIS officer once pointed out ) based on what i have learned, only certificate of citizenship ( or naturalization) is accepted and NOT a passport! you could say that is a proof of citizenship! that is correct but that is NOT accepted sometimes at some places ! so no matter you have the proof of citizenship using your passport, simply it is not the proof requested or accepted in that specific office.  Like the case of a 64 year old guy when he applies for his SSI, he finds out he needs to provide a certificate of citizenship and passport was not accepted in his case!  and guess where he can find his parents documents now? I hear certain loans and financial helps are also requesting for Certificate not a passport! ( why? i don't know!)

Like the example of insurance policy i mentioned before, you could live without it all your life and never need it, but when you need it, you know what happens next! My preference is to pay that extra money and have the documents that will NOT expire every 5 to 10 years and dont have to go through lots of paper works each time to reapply for new passports over and over again or live with an expired passport!

I am done here with this topic. Goodbye.

On 1/27/2019 at 5:22 PM, geowrian said:

True. Just seems kinda pointless in 99% of the cases.

It is NOT pointless!  your passport ( as a proof of citizenship) can be denied for renewal anytime anyone at the power decides so! ( like the case of isis bride - which i feel good about it in this case though) and simply claim it was a mistake and that becomes your nightmare going court after court to prove it otherwise! but certificate of citizenship is nothing easy to be denied! ( unless it is obtained by falsifications which can void any documents regardless of the title) . Also a lot of financial helps or financial related matters in future of your kid will demand for citizenship documents and NOT passport ( google to find about it)! Also, when the time comes, your kids need such a proof!  then if the parents are divorced, deceased or moved back to their countries or they are nowhere to be found! then do you think it would be easy for your kids to gather all that extra documents and go through all the hassles  without endless frustrations!  Now that everything in your life is in place is the right time to apply for it! Going after passport and renewing  it every 5 or 10 years and paying the fees which during the years also keep increasing, is also not cheap specially if you are not really doing much international trips though! ( i mean air trip, otherwise for driving, an enhanced drivers license is enough for Canada and Mexico). I look at it like an insurance policy! you could live without it saving money for years and years and nothing ever happens, but when it does, well you know what comes after? 

1 minute ago, ThomasNC1988 said:

No one is probably going to be able to help you on this because nobody does it. Why? Because Naturalization certificate < US passport. You seem to be really confused an anxious. USCIS will never help you fill out any forms. Do yourself a favor and just get the passport.

Like i said, i am not starting to discuss which is better! simply i am trying to find an answer for my question! if you don't have an answer for that, please simply ignore this topic. Thanks.

42 minutes ago, H&T said:

Instead apply for N600, you can apply US passport for the kids( money saving).

you can take a look at this link: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/citizenship-evidence.html

I have my own reasons why i am doing this! so i prefer to keep focused on my initial question here instead of discussing why this and why not that!

 I am struggling with this application for quite some time and i need some help if you have the experience!  SInce my wife and i both naturalized, automatically , by law, our kids (under 16)  who are living with us as legal permanent residents derive the citizenship from us. either parents can apply for the certificate for the kids as citizen . what i need to understand is if that would make a difference if we put both our names on the application or just one of us ( as the US parent) , the reason i am asking this, is because some of the supporting long list of documents are not available for me at the moment to provide but we have them all for my wife ready. on the other hand i am afraid not adding myself to the application, might raise the suspicion that i am not residing with the family or the kid and might encourage them to ask for further documents to clarify that which will make this long process even longer!  i just dont know what to do right now! worse than that is when you call USCIS asking for help about such forms , all the operator can say is ; " sorry we are not able to download the form so we can not go step by step with you on the form! please consult a lawyer!"  total waste of time! no help whatsoever! and they charge you over a $1000 to process that! 

Well we know after taking the oath and receiving the certificate of naturalization, our kids of under 18 who have lived with us on legal permanent residents status,  also become citizens automatically as a result. 

I was planing to go to Social security office to update our status , but noticed we have nothing to show as a proof of citizenship for the kids! ( we have NOT applied for the passport or N600 yet) and i was under the impression that just having our certificate of naturalizations would be enough to prove our children's citizenship to them, assuming they are aware of the law and since they already have all the family info in their system, there should be no need to even prove the relationship.  So to be on the safe side i called the social security call center and waited for their call back. The representative who called seemed not to be aware of the law and she could not say much! so just suggested we take our certificate of naturalization along with kids green cards to the office and they should be able to update it, but still she was not so sure!

I would appreciate if anyone who had a situation like us, to share their experience. Thank you!

5 minutes ago, carmel34 said:

.  I think Prince Albert of Monaco did too in order to avoid paying US taxes on the fortune he inherited when he became a prince.  He inherited his US citizenship through his Mom Grace Kelly.

Thanks for the input. 

As part of citizenship questioner, you have to confirm your willingness to give up your titles, such as prince! But it is good to know after citizenship still we can upgrade to a prince !

7 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

decide which passport to use to enter a third country.

That is very important too

Many years ago when i was working in China, i recieved more favorable treatments from the public compared to my American colleagues and cheaper visa extension fees too 😁😁😁 but i dont think it is good to be a Canadian in China today! You follow the news? 😁😁 

14 minutes ago, Going through said:

 

"A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian

True!

7 minutes ago, Going through said:

Canada is more tolerant

On second thought i should disagree to some levels though! Its more about the party in power i guess! I remember Harper trying to cancel Canadian citizenship of those not really residing in Canada for long and benefiting the citizenship coverage outside the borders! Though that plan is history now 🙂

True 😀

7 minutes ago, Going through said:

12 minutes ago, Dave&Kal said:

 

Legally, once a citizen, you are required to declare yourself as American when entering the US.  Canada has no such rule (you don't have to declare yourself Canadian upon entry)

Didnt know that ! Nice to know. Thanks.  So in other words, the US government will never consider you anything but an American after taking the oath!  How about Canada? Would they recognize you as only Canadian or both US and Canadian? Or just an American with Canadian citizenship privileges?

10 minutes ago, HonoraryCitizen said:

Don’t worry yourself, it’s one of those things you just accept as is.

😁

2 minutes ago, Going through said:

 

Personally speaking for only myself, the only time I ever refer to myself as "American" is at the US border.

 

Otherwise---when people ask me my nationality, or where I'm from I say "I'm a Canadian living in America", or that "I was born and raised in Canada, but I live in America now", or say "I'm a dual Canadian/American citizen.

 

However, when visiting Canada, I refer to myself as Canadian only.

Well, that was more about border situation for myself as well. A couple of times when crossing the Canadian border, i found calling yourself Canadian creates longer delay since driving a US license plate creates more questions for the immigration people, its more about import export tax related concerns! Also on US border side is always the concern where you reside! And then the citizenship question! 

I find it a paradox, while you taking an oath to give up loyalty to other countries and still you identify yourself as those country's citizen! I mean being a citizen, doesnt mean you are still loyal? 

Two of the very important questions during the interview are, if you have ever stated orally or in written to be a US citizen! And also agreeing to give up loyalty to your previous country/ies of citizenship as part of becoming a US citizen. I am curious, after becoming a US citizen, if it would be against any law when you are asked to identify yourself,  to reply  being a US & any other country's citizen all together? I know you could keep other citizenship/s ( except few countries), but what specifically wanted to know if it is that sensetive, the person finds himself/herself the citizen of other countries while having agreed to give up loyalty to those contries after citizenship oath!   Being dual citizen is not illigal! And i know that! My emphesis is on identifying yourself as dual while you have taken oath just to be a US citizen!  Am i making my point clear?

No matter how many pages you have , you can always combine all in one pdf file, to do it,  find a pdf editor app such as "nitro pdf pro". In this way all pages are in one pdf file and that counts as one file only!

this is a normal issue and does happen due to software glitches and not necessarily your mistakes! since you can not go ahead unless you provide that document ( child support), you can very easily in word application  write something like this, " This is just to confirm all my family (my wife, my child and myself) all live together all the time and we share the same address, but i have no idea why i am being asked to provide a proof of child support which has nothing to do with my status. "   then save it as "Child support issue.Doc "  then convert it to PDF file and upload it. so this way you can bypass what is stopping you in here, and when the USCIS is going through your file they understand what has happened !  i have had issues like this many places and this has been the best way to bypass it.

This is an update to my situation so far, putting down the findings in here for any one who might later on run into such situation.

I contacted USCIS regarding this issue, and i was advised in such case, simply when we sign in the office,  we should let the officer know about we both having interview with single copy of the original documents and they can accommodate us with that.  ( i guess that would be like what i thought first, meaning, one of us would be called for the interview first and when done, the second one would be called in, or if we both happen to be interviewed in different rooms , they can arrange some one collect the documents from one room to the other , but the first idea seems more practical)

So no need to spend extra hard earned money on duplicate copies of documents that you already have!

There is also another option known as " True copy"  and UCIS agent confirmed that could also be accepted ( but i still go with the first option) . Here in the state of NY, there is something like that, as the public notary office clarified ( i talked to few minutes ago) , which is you make a photo copy of the original document and in front of the public notary under document you write and sign that this copy is a true copy of the original ( something like that) and the notary public certifies your signature! 

11 hours ago, Lil bear said:

We had two complete sets of original documents when we had our IR5 interviews...each packet had to be complete and stand alone 

Doesnt make sense to me. I mean some documents are just issued once and if replacement is requested, the initial one is considered void!  Also original documents issued in multiple countries can not easily be repreduced ! There should be another way, like on the day of interview we talk to someone and have them see and verify the documents before the interview and issue a note certifying the presence of documents or to be called seperately with some delay in between so that when one is done with the interview , then the second person is called and the documents to be handed to the next person.  I mean there should be some way!

I just noticed, since my wife and i have been scheduled for the interview on the same day and same time, assuming we are not going to see the same interviewer together at the same time,  what happens  if we are called to see 2 different interviewers ( let's say the same time) while we both share the same single original documents ( meaning we have only one original document ) , such as our kids' birth certificates! i mean if she takes the documents with her, then i wont have them with me to present when requested! i was just wondering if anything like this was anywhere discussed or any one knows how this will be handled.

4 minutes ago, dilip said:

 

Department of Homeland Security

USCIS: USCIS is funded by filing fees, so the USCIS is expected to continue to process immigration applications as normal. Some field offices have already issued statements indicating they will maintain regular operations.

Thank you. Such a relief