berber_wife

Before he got here!
We had lots of things lined up, and other things up in the air. He works at my family's business, and we discussed the pros and cons of that while we were waiting on visa stuff. Once he had his EAD, he had a job there. So far, it's working well. It was important to him and me both that he not arrive destitute. He had savings for while he waited for his EAD. If that's important to you guys, cool. If not, cool too. Understand, like Nasturtium mentioned, how he fits in with where he's from, and how you fit in that picture. No matter what, even though my husband and i are both Muslims, even though we both have similar thoughts and opinions on our religious practices, even though we both love milkshakes, but disagree on chocolate vs strawberry, and even though we grew up both loving Belle and Sebastian cartoons, it's still totally out of the norm that we're together. Culturally, some of the arrangements that come up amongst couples on vj can be really, really out of the norm. Some of that has to do with their individuality, and both sides are happy and comfortable. Other times one side or both sides are uncomfortable with the arrangement, or their partner's stance on something. It can sometimes be a really tricky to deal with combination of cultural and personal stuff. Knowing as much as you can about each others societal norms and your SOs place there can help with sorting them out sometimes.
Sorry for rambling.

How did you know he was going to be such a good partner? How did you keep faith that he would pick things up so easily once in the US and integrate so well into your life, your family's life and US culture? What made you sure that his intentions were good ones? I ask you these questions because I am honestly curious about other people's thought processes as they have moved forward with their relationship and the visa process and if they have been similar to mine.
As someone who is still somewhat of a "newbie" herself, I would love to see less vague ZOMG we're so love statements and less vague dire warnings and more about how the couples who have gone through the process and are happy, got from Point A to Point B. How did you determine that they were a good person, with good intentions, that you were compatible with? What did you do before your partner came here to prepare them, your relationship and if applicable, your kids, for the transition? What have you done after immigration to ensure that your relationship stays strong and healthy? And the reverse-if you didn't stay married, how did you go from happy to unhappy?

How did you know he was going to be such a good partner? How did you keep faith that he would pick things up so easily once in the US and integrate so well into your life, your family's life and US culture? What made you sure that his intentions were good ones? I ask you these questions because I am honestly curious about other people's thought processes as they have moved forward with their relationship and the visa process and if they have been similar to mine.
As someone who is still somewhat of a "newbie" herself, I would love to see less vague ZOMG we're so love statements and less vague dire warnings and more about how the couples who have gone through the process and are happy, got from Point A to Point B. How did you determine that they were a good person, with good intentions, that you were compatible with? What did you do before your partner came here to prepare them, your relationship and if applicable, your kids, for the transition? What have you done after immigration to ensure that your relationship stays strong and healthy? And the reverse-if you didn't stay married, how did you go from happy to unhappy?

I didn't have the opportunity to be in country for very long at all and get any data from acquaintances or co workers unfortunately. One thing that was important to me was getting my parents on board with the whole deal, and having them meet my husband and his family. They weren't all fluttery lovey dovey over him like I was, so their insight was a little more clear headed. All kinds of factors figured into me liking him ss a person, and that turning into him being somebody I loved, and then feeling that he could be someone I could raise my son with and want to have more children with, and all kinds of other life things, some really specific to us as a couple, others more universal. I liked him, my parents liked him, his parents liked us, etc. It's always a bit of a gamble, but everyone has different stakes, and consequences for taking that gamble. Sone bets are played really rashly, and that often ends badly, more often than when the same bets are played with more contemplation. I didn't even go to morocco until I'd been talking to and getting to know my husband for two years. We took it really, really slow.

1. How did you determine that they were a good person, with good intentions, that you were compatible with?
Well, my answers will be a bit vague, but hopefully I make it clear why. Obviously, since everyone is different there isn't going to be a one-size-fits-all kind of measure of a person. My husband and I knew people in common that we both attended school with/worked with separately in the two countries. So first, I figured he couldn't be too weird of a person if he had managed to keep a working relationship with my university as well as work at his university teaching. That was sort of my starting point. I asked around about him, and got fairly consistent answers. I worked with him for a while and saw how he treated other people-- including ones he seriously disliked. I asked a lot of questions of him. I talked to people I knew or met who were involved with Jordanians to try to learn more about the culture and what did and did not make sense. I looked for people who appeared to me to be stable, rational people-- even if they seemed acerbic.
Some of the stuff/most of the stuff we discussed were life goals, morals, values, and things like that. We spent a lot of time wrapped up on gobbledygook too, but most of our time was spent trying to determine if in the long run we shared the same vision of life and had the same standards. We also discussed kids, living in different countries, jobs, and things like that. Practical stuff. I wasted a lot of money calling him for the squishy stuff because I really missed him. if I could do it over again, like mithra said-- I would be less spastic and more controlled during the visa period. I'd be way less worried and more trying to save money.
I guess now is also as good of a time as any to say that there is no real assurance of any kind though that person X is being honest-- in the end, you have to kind of take it on faith to an extent. House says everybody lies.
2. What did you do before your partner came here to prepare them, your relationship and if applicable, your kids, for the transition?
Hmm. Well I bought a lot of practical things for him like socks and stuff. I squished my closet on to one side. Things like that. But I am assuming you mean not the basic stuff lol. So when I was in Jordan for a few months, if I noticed something that seemed different (for example paying the water bill) I just generally would comment on that. That wasn't really prep work though. I didn't prep him much I guess? I think we had covered a lot of cultural stuff in our initial talk about expectations and such. He just pretty much consulted me on whatever he encountered on his own. No horror stories, no weird cultural breakdowns.
At first he was nervous about the cats, but now they are inseparable. That's as close to kids as I get.
I think one of the biggest realizations he had was how much debt many Americans are in and how many Americans are making car and house payments or using credit cards. So that was something you may wish to address beforehand. At first he wasn't into using a credit card, but then he got over that when he realized we just paid it off every month. Some people mentioned having to try to explain the no floor drains stuff or how the roads aren't insane, but I never had those issues.
3. What have you done after immigration to ensure that your relationship stays strong and healthy?
It's the same as any other marriage. You spend time together, make sure you work out disagreements completely, and try to give the other person the benefit of the doubt especially if you're dealing with crossed cultural wires or lingual issues. We usually try to do something outside the house together at least once a week, even if it's just window shopping.
4. And the reverse-if you didn't stay married, how did you go from happy to unhappy?
(N/A- -still married )

And of course the old, tired generalizations about Moroccan women being gold-digging baby makers.

I really don't think anyone is trying to change your mind. I've read the whole 7 pages over the last couple of days. I don't remember every post, but I didn't notice anyone degrading him either. I think most people were sincerely trying to offer their best advice. I'm going to do my best to offer mine without offending anyone.
The first few replies after your original post offer the most important advice for you at this stage. Slow down. Spend as much time together in person as you possibly can before you file.
Save everything: chat logs, emails, pictures, boarding passes, receipts...the list goes on and on. You can search these forums and find hundreds of threads discussing the evidence people send with their petitions and/or bring to the interview.
Before I answer that, I wanted to say that a denial is not supposed to be based on age difference alone, even though it seems people are denied for that reason often. So, again, take your time. Build a strong case. Don't let them find another reason.
Anyway I don't have numbers for you, but I've heard/read about plenty of approvals for MENA couples with similar age gaps. A few of those couples got through the process without a hiccup. Most of them, however, didn't have it so easy. Some of the couples faced a denial the first time around. Some of them waited two or three years or longer, and dealt with multiple denials. In the end though, they got what they were fighting for. If you search the MENA forum for denials, refusals, 221g's, age gaps, etc you'll find loads of information. I won't tell you it will be fast or easy, but I do think your chances are pretty good if age difference is the only issue.
Like the others have said, if by "happy endings" you mean the visa was issued, then there are plenty.
If you mean still together after citizenship and financial independence, there are some, but not too many. I think some of those ladies already shared their stories with you.
Personally, I don't know any. I've stayed in touch online or in person with some of the couples that went through the immigration process around the same time as I did. They are American women married to Algerians or Moroccans. I could probably remember more, but right now I can think of 12 couples. Of the twelve, five are still married and seven are divorced. In 5 of those couples the woman was ten or more years older. All five of the younger man/ older woman couples are now divorced. All of them say the age difference was not the reason for the divorce. Anyway, those are just the people I know, I'm not implying in any way that those numbers mean a damn thing.
Honestly, I do hope that this man is everything you think he is. I do believe that it's possible for a couple with your age difference to have a successful marriage.
Yes, most Algerian guys are great. They love their country. They don't want to leave their home. But here's the thing...there are tons of Algerian guys online looking for women to marry as a way out of Algeria. They look for Europeans, Americans, Canadians...wherever they think they will be happier, and find more opportunities. They tend to look for older, divorced women who they think will be more financially stable. More desperate for a man. Easier to fool. Most likely to come to Algeria and believe their silly love stories. These guys exist. And they do think like that. And they will tell you anything you want to hear. How on earth can you logically dismiss the possibility that this guy might be one of them? It makes no sense to me at all. You've got all of these little red flags waving at you. Please, don't ignore them. Investigate them first and then hopefully you can dismiss them. Just stop pretending they are not there. He could very well turn out to be everything you think he is, but what if he isn't? People keep telling you "eyes wide open", "blinders off"...and I agree with them. This is not the time to "follow your heart", you've got to let your brain do some of the work here. Be happy, be in love, but don't be a fool.

And of course the old, tired generalizations about Moroccan women being gold-digging baby makers.

+1.
I know I found the generalizations not only offensive, but completely incongruent with my own experiences with American males. By the same token, I found the generalizations about Moroccan men to probably hold an equal amount of truth. People are individuals, not a breed. There are definite cultural traits that people absorb, and certainly values and morals instilled through upbringing. However, people make their own choices. If someone is a good person, it is because they choose to be-- not because of their genetics, environment, or even entirely their upbringing or religion. it is best to take the good with the bad and to have a more rounded and objective picture of a place than something on either extreme.

mithra has the right idea....I mean, think of it this way. 20 odd years older may be OK when the petitioner is in her 40s. Fast forward 10yr and see if the young man is still with her, or if he has moved on to a woman who can give him children, or just moved on in general. Also I can speak for this. I married the first time when I was 20. I grew up over the course of the marriage and my growing up is what killed things; we do not stay the same when we enter into a union so young. Mindsets and goals and outlooks on life change. We aren't the same at age 22 as we are at 27, and so on.

I'm sorry but that above is ridiculous. 23 year old men from any country can be capable of being lazy and childish just the same as 23 year old men can be mature and responsible. It's not where they're from that matters, it's how they were raised, their own personality, and what they've been exposed to.

and
Exactly what I was getting at.
Obviously, I do not think badly of MENA men as a whole. If I did, I wouldn't be planning on marrying one. And if I thought all older woman-younger man relationships were doomed to fail, I wouldn't have directed the OP to another member who has a happy marriage and a significant age gap. I'm a skeptical and cautious person by nature and the advice I'm given and questions I've asked in this thread would be similar if I were giving advice to a woman who was in the midst of an online romance with a USC who was 18 years her junior. For that matter, I would be advising ANY woman who was planning marriage with a guy she had never met face-to-face, regardless of age/nationality/religion, to SLOW DOWN.
And really, that's what made up a lot of the advice to the OP. No one is barging in and saying "YOU ARE DOOMED." People advised her to take things slow, get to know him well, not ignore red flags. Several large age difference couples came out of the woodwork and shared happy marriage stories. Go read some of the archives and you'll see that everyone has actually been quite gentle.

and
Exactly what I was getting at.
Obviously, I do not think badly of MENA men as a whole. If I did, I wouldn't be planning on marrying one. And if I thought all older woman-younger man relationships were doomed to fail, I wouldn't have directed the OP to another member who has a happy marriage and a significant age gap. I'm a skeptical and cautious person by nature and the advice I'm given and questions I've asked in this thread would be similar if I were giving advice to a woman who was in the midst of an online romance with a USC who was 18 years her junior. For that matter, I would be advising ANY woman who was planning marriage with a guy she had never met face-to-face, regardless of age/nationality/religion, to SLOW DOWN.
And really, that's what made up a lot of the advice to the OP. No one is barging in and saying "YOU ARE DOOMED." People advised her to take things slow, get to know him well, not ignore red flags. Several large age difference couples came out of the woodwork and shared happy marriage stories. Go read some of the archives and you'll see that everyone has actually been quite gentle.

and
Exactly what I was getting at.
Obviously, I do not think badly of MENA men as a whole. If I did, I wouldn't be planning on marrying one. And if I thought all older woman-younger man relationships were doomed to fail, I wouldn't have directed the OP to another member who has a happy marriage and a significant age gap. I'm a skeptical and cautious person by nature and the advice I'm given and questions I've asked in this thread would be similar if I were giving advice to a woman who was in the midst of an online romance with a USC who was 18 years her junior. For that matter, I would be advising ANY woman who was planning marriage with a guy she had never met face-to-face, regardless of age/nationality/religion, to SLOW DOWN.
And really, that's what made up a lot of the advice to the OP. No one is barging in and saying "YOU ARE DOOMED." People advised her to take things slow, get to know him well, not ignore red flags. Several large age difference couples came out of the woodwork and shared happy marriage stories. Go read some of the archives and you'll see that everyone has actually been quite gentle.

Lol @ the persecutory complexes here. Good grief. You realize a lot of the same people who
supposedly hate alllll the MENA guys are the very same ones who adamantly speak up in defense of the very real good guys coming out of MENA when people post about relationships gone wrong, and how it must be alllll of MENA guys' fault and they're all bad when that happens. But whatever, MENA baddd.

There's a wide range of MENA male capabilities and norms among guys in their 20s living at home, just like any other group of guys. My husband came to the US knowing some basic cooking and cleaning and self sufficiency skills, and actively worked to learn more of these skills while we have been married. No women in his house wait on any males in his house hand and foot. But there's plenty of stories and experiences shared here in MENA over the years of utter incompetence in these areas, and the guys seeing absolutely nothing wrong with that incompetence, and not looking to make any changes or improvements there. Some relationships with American females are totally ok with that. Others it takes completely by surprise, and it becomes a big source of conflict. Reading experiences shared on this website since 2006, I've seen a lot of complaints and frustration expressed about it. Far too many to write off. And far too many to agree with general statements about how it's silly not to assume that guys in their 20s, MENA or not, are totally prepared to run households with women of any age. That's ridiculous.
Money has been a major source of conflict too, I've read countless complaints about MENA guys who once they start working in the US contribute absolutely zero to the financial needs in the house. This has to be discussed beforehand. There are no guarantees at all that a MENA guy in his 20s, or any other guy, is financially responsible, or knows how to or wants to contribute to household expenses, just because Madeinmorocco2 says they " understand the meaning of money and how to spend money wisely at a very young age as we start working and helping our families live." No. That is not even remotely a universal truth. MENA guys can be just as big of losers in this area as any other guys.
Comparing broken marriage rates in the US of same age couples to couples with age differences in Morocco is like trying to compare apples to bowling balls, Madeinmorocco2. Sociologically, there are HUGE differences, reasons, and consequences that make it impossible to compare side by side the way you're trying to do here. Pointless comparison really.

Speaking of him being younger-what does he have as far as life/relationship/practical experience? As in, has he ever lived on his own, has he ever managed money, has he had any prior romantic relationships? A big differential in terms of experience can be a big issue in any relationship.

Speaking of him being younger-what does he have as far as life/relationship/practical experience? As in, has he ever lived on his own, has he ever managed money, has he had any prior romantic relationships? A big differential in terms of experience can be a big issue in any relationship.

Take what you like snd what is beneficial from what I say. I've been martied to my Algerian husband for more than 11 years. We have two boys and another coming in 3 weeks. Except for one Couple on this board(meriem dz), I've never known in real life or online any other couple in your exact situation. All of the couples are close in age or have an older Algerian husband like myself. Over the last couple years, as the number of applicants from Algeria increases, it has become a much more difficult embassy ti get through than it once was. I cannot say his intentions aren't real but for sure it is a odd combination there. Even though the age difference between my husband and I is commin(10 yrs), I know my ILs would have preferred he married an Algerian... Even after all these years and the grandchildren I gave them. My children were their first grandchildren and no doubt they love them and me very much. However, I'm sure I'm not what they ever imagined for their son.
Concentrate on getting to know him better. Knowing what I know, I'd be concerned if him or his family pushed you to move too fast.

Speaking of him being younger-what does he have as far as life/relationship/practical experience? As in, has he ever lived on his own, has he ever managed money, has he had any prior romantic relationships? A big differential in terms of experience can be a big issue in any relationship.

Speaking of him being younger-what does he have as far as life/relationship/practical experience? As in, has he ever lived on his own, has he ever managed money, has he had any prior romantic relationships? A big differential in terms of experience can be a big issue in any relationship.

AP wouldn't have stopped your husband from doing what he did, AP is security checks, not sociopaths checks. You had huge red flags before your husband received his visa and you chose to ignore them.
To the OP, I will say again, you plan to meet your fiance only for a week and then file. A week simply isn't enough time to get to know a person, no matter how much time you spend online, real life is totally different. You need to spend not only a lot of time with him, but also with his family and friends to get to see the entire picture. Marriage is a lot of work, no matter the age difference or the difference in culture. I was married to my first husband for 20 years, we are the same age and from similar backgrounds and beliefs, it ended in a very bitter divorce. I knew the moment I married him it was a mistake, yet I chose to stay and work on the marriage, and then I stayed for the children. My now husband has been here for a year, it has been great, but it has also been hard at times, the waiting for him to get a job was excruciating and he was getting depressed. He is working now, loves his job, and he is loving it here now, but he misses his family and friends. Hopefully in the Spring we will be able to go to Jordan for a visit, he is dying to go and so am I. I need a vacation.

The mods will not remove this thread, they will only close it to more posts if you ask and they feel like obliging.
Honestly the more of these threads that are on this forum the better because I feel like too many women (and even some men) come on here with sunshine and stars in their eyes because they've been swept off their feet by some foreign amour that they may or may not have met yet or know well. These fantasy balloons need popping, for the good of these newbies. If threads like this offer a reality check, then it's well worth the responders time to give their thoughts based on a wealth of experience that they have, and that you the OP do not have. Let it serve as a warning to both be self-guarded and humble.
Anyone can be scammed, anyone can have a bad marriage. None of us are above that. To an extent marriage is always a leap of faith, but better it be a well-researched leap than a blind one.

Wow. Your guy "seems" to adore you.
That's reason enough to run off to a country in such turmoil people are like crabs in a bucket trying to get out.
The last time I flew out of Cairo, my driver, Ahmed, was complaining about how hard it is to get a visa to the U.S. He agreed with me, that if the U.S. didn't make it hard to get a visa, everyone (Egyptians) would leave - by walking and, adding that (then president) Morsi would be pointing his finger and yelling at the flies.
You don't know what you're getting into. If you did, you wouldn't be posting here because a visa is the least of your concerns.
Visit. Get to know him. Learn the culture - because, lady, you know nothing about Egyptian traditions. Then decide if you can live with what your life will look at in five, then ten, and, finally, 20 years.

Before you go to Algeria, get yourself an accordion file folder, and put all boarding passes, receipts, and other paper evidence in it to use in the future if you decide to file.
Aside from that, wipe marriages and visas from your mind. Focus your energies on getting to know him and determining whether you are actually compatible face-to-face.
All you need to file is one visit, but I would recommend getting as much in-person time as you can. Yes, it looks better to immigration, but much more importantly, it gives your relationship a stronger foundation. After all, isn't the ultimate goal not simply to get a visa but to have a happy and long-lasting marriage?
As far as older woman-younger man relationships, from reading the archives it seems like there are 3-4 couples that made it past the five-year mark. I don't think any of them are still active. As far as current posters, I think mimolicious has an age gap of 20 years (although you wouldn't be able to tell from her picture!)
Good luck.