LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[Jenn! 918]

We didn't have any of the red flags listed above, but our red flags were a difference in education and also that I sent him money. We were both living and working in Europe, and he went back to Morocco when I came back to the U.S. so we could do the petition. I guess he could have worked during the waiting period so as to reduce any suspicion by the consulate, but we just hoped that things would go quickly and that it would be better for him to spend the time with his family (he hadn't seen them in over 6 years!). Turns out it wasn't brought up at all at the interview - his being unemployed or my sending him money. And we were really lucky to have a speedy process so that he was in Morocco for less than six months.

[deemabrouk 0]

the First being that we did get married relatively soon after we first started talking.. My husband knew about me Months before I knew about him.. My friend thinks she is SUCH the match maker So he(and his family) already felt like he "knew" me before we even started talking.. (pictures and everything!!!) The both of us being 30's.. and knowing we still had a long road ahead of us(visa, inshallah).. And wanted to Keep things as Halal as possible.. We deceided to get married.

I do not want to read too much into your personal story because this may not apply to you at all BUT it reminds me of another red flag. Meeting your fiance/husband through family or friends. This can raise suspicion in the mind of a CO. For most of it it makes so much sense- that two people are introduced by a common friend/relative. who would know beeter that a couple would be a perfect match. It sounds liek it should be proof for a legitimate relationship, but it often can be a double edged sword. It raises the question of the family/friend trying to match a woman for marriage to bring that familymember or friend over to the US.

Actually None of his family wants him to leave.. He especially doesnt want to leave his mom.. But they are happy he found a "Good Muslim Girl" (little do they know... bahahaha... J.K!!)

But isnt that how it is supposed to be done??!! For how many centuries did people get married through friends, family or religious figure ??? Geeze I even know a few people who had arranged marriages..

I would think that would add some validity.. not suspicion..

I hate being under a microscope (not Vj'ers - but the Visa process).. but alhamdulillah for everything

[deemabrouk 0]

I agree too, beautifully stated !

and I agree with the other comment too... My husband would much rather move anywhere but here.. He is hanging on by a thread with this whole visa thing.. I am the one pushing this of now.. cause I want a Nice Nest Egg saved up before I move back to Egypt with him (or another country)

Heee! Yeah, mine never wanted to go to the US and is only going because he can finish his PhD here. he actually was lined up to go to Canada or germany and had scholarships to both! Sigh. Anyway, because I am doing my degree here he decided to come and do his here too. i totally screwed up all of his plans! And now we're really hoping to buy this house in his village and cut out of ehre after the PhDs, so we hope to be gone in about 5 years. My work and his work are both in Jordan, but I need the PhD credentials to co-direct excavations with him and be first or second author in papers. Now if only I could get him to feel the awesomeness in the late Byzantine instead of his Late Roman/Early Byzantine stuff, we'd be perfect

Mine had a really Good job lined up in Kuwait.. He was soo bummed out that I told him i was not ready yet to move over sea's.. Even now a mutual friend could have a job lined up in Italy for him.. BUT my roots are just alittle too firm right now poor man....

[kerewin21 2]

Wow, mabruk all for keeping this real and informative. I think we get into trouble when we start applying these *general* principles to specific people.

Umm, I think our red flag was education difference, plus my husband was only marginally employed at the time of the interview. Neither of these things were mentioned. We had a million photos, letters, etc, but the CO was most interested in the photos. He only looked at a few of them and then approved us. I think this goes to show that they make up their minds *before* the interview (sadly).

I hope this thread helps some people to realistically look at their "red flags" and to address them.

Sharon

[kerewin21 2]

Wow, mabruk all for keeping this real and informative. I think we get into trouble when we start applying these *general* principles to specific people.

Umm, I think our red flag was education difference, plus my husband was only marginally employed at the time of the interview. Neither of these things were mentioned. We had a million photos, letters, etc, but the CO was most interested in the photos. He only looked at a few of them and then approved us. I think this goes to show that they make up their minds *before* the interview (sadly).

I hope this thread helps some people to realistically look at their "red flags" and to address them.

Sharon

[Nasturtium 500]

In general I'd say we all have at least one We all married a "furrinor." If you can't address your red flags, then I think that's an issue.. and by address I mean at least know them, examine them, and be able to explain them. Trying to ignore them probably isn;t the best option-- so I hope everyone approaches it with an open mind!

[sarah and hicham 3]

Oh boy.

We have none of the above.

[Henia 11]

I guess it does sometimes pay to be online all day, find a wife eventually then actually getting a real job. (again sorry if this offends anyone.... but I am going off my own experience here)

I hope everyone here knows and fully comprehends that this DOES happen! For real! So I hope they are not offended because really! And in a way, I completely understand it. You live in an impoverished area, your future looks like #######, and you have heard of a way out-- meeting a woman and making her happy for a while, she trades you a greencard and it's all good. Then you can move on. No big deal. But I can imagine the actual and real desperation of people who are in these countries for a better life. My husband is that way.. but his choice is through his education and research. Most people have a plan as to how to better themselves. It's just that maybe ours doesn't involve a marriage and immigration.

I would just add that some of these men are quite willing to stick out the marriage even if the intention starts with the desire to get to the US or Europe. Marriage has its own cultural interpretations for ME/NA men that are far different than western expectations. Sometimes the marriages work out and sometimes they don't. It's not as simple as beign duped for a green card. I think too many American woman go into these marriages with MENA men and have HUGE expectations on what love and marriage from a US POV and can find themselves in a situation they couldnt predict when it was all love and romance in the beginning.

Esalaam

Just quickly reading the 2nd page of this thread but many more to go...just a quick note: Yes MBP I agree if the man or woman sticks it out...nothing wrong with it...esp if they have a real realaltionship/love form...but it is those who play the role of online casanova, get the visa come over stay with the sponsor until they get their papers theeeeeeeeen...leave or damage the sponso'r's life by let's say...breaking their heart, making unwanted children, creating debt and humilation ....and other terrible acts...this is what I have a problm with you know.

ANd I would even go as far to say if the sponsor was just willing to help out a fellow human being or both parties couls benefit from this type marriage (meaning they have a contract-written or unwritten) and they stick to that...i have myself no problem with that.

I just destest the USERS... I dislike the fact I see people online trying to *work* several people over online, so see which comes and files for them first... or the old (be my girlfriend or wife in Islam only ->no legal marriage, meaning you are not worth marrying for real, it owuld be marriage of pleasure ...but could you marry my brother or cousin for papers) deal... sorry to say I have had this purposed to me on 2occasions...both times I told the *pious* Muslim brother to go sod off!

anywho back to reading the rest of the post...then i will reply

Edited April 3, 2007 by Henia

[Henia 11]

Henia and I have mentioned before that our hubbies aren't even all that keen to come here anyway. By the time our process is over, if he gets a visa, I'll be dragging him kicking and screaming here, he's so sick and tired of the whole thing and more than ready for me to just come back there for good!

Esalaam GEG! Yuuuuuuup I hear you on that one! My husband never asks about the visa process...like we are not even going throu it but when I mention it he says: Don't you like to live in Algerie? I guess some men are just set in their ways, comfortable where they are and do not want change! This may not be true for all, but I think the men who are little older (meaning not in their 20s anymore) I think are more likely to not want this change: leaving the country they grew up, where they knows the ways, are little kings in their own right...then to go off to a foreign land where they must start from ground 0 (plus have wife and possibly children in tow)... not everyone is up for that! Buuuuuuuuut from my side, I keep praying... and he keeps saying "I will do it for you if you want me to" with that yellow smile. I just love him for it!

[Henia 11]

and also that I sent him money. We were both living and working in Europe, and he went back to Morocco when I came back to the U.S. so we could do the petition. I guess he could have worked during the waiting period so as to reduce any suspicion by the consulate, but we just hoped that things would go quickly and that it would be better for him to spend the time with his family (he hadn't seen them in over 6 years!). Turns out it wasn't brought up at all at the interview - his being unemployed or my sending him money. And we were really lucky to have a speedy process so that he was in Morocco for less than six months.

Esalaam

This is not directed at you Jenn, but you have brought up a good point I would like to comment to...

I see nothing wrong with sending each other money or gifts when the occasion arises. But when the man does not have a job, and makes NO attempt to even look for one (ie: he is online all the day) then I feel it is major red flag. I understand the ecomonically hardships of various countries, but come on --> even a shitty little job selling tea or ice creme on the corner can make you little money (and more importantly make you humble and show you are TRYING) I think a good man with serious intentions would be out there trying his best to put a little something away for the next time he sees you or to buy that fon card to call you or for when you both are together. Amount of money he makes really is not the issue...it is that fact he is trying. And as far as women go... could/should go the same route...she should be active in making the future *possible*...not whining and crying until you wire her some money.

From my side, my husband sent me gifts all the time...none of them were *waw* gifts but the sentiment in them were worth more then gold. He never asked me to do anything for him, esp with the finances. He saved up for our wedding and paid for my tickets to come. Not cos I required that of him or cos I am broke one... just cos his pride told him to do that. He knew my first marriage was like a jail sentence and that I never had a real wedding. And even thou I assisted it be a small and very cheap affair he went out of his way to make it special..... And believe me I appreciate the gesture more then he could ever know. Dollar is worth much much more then the dinar... and takes alot longer to save up that dinar then the dollar. So anyway got off topic there little....

I see nothing wrong with occasional gestures like this. But what I do find beastly wrong is when the sponsor goes into debt sending their SO monthly allowances, when visiting them small gifts become iPODs, laptops, complete wardrobes, etc. (And please anyone who feels they must comment, "ooooooo but I just give my husband this little thing or that little thing" save it... I am not talking about that -----> I am talking about the people sending their SO a monthly $300-400 allowance, ones who have no job yet seem to have new Nike shoes every few months) I have actually heard some stories about the woman going into debt with the visa process, visiting the SO, sending him money (since he is soooooo poor) and bringing lavious gifts when visiting. Sorry ladies, but we have to live too... we have rent, bills and things to do here. Even with economical hardships, if you want to eat...you will find a way to eat.

I know from myself, when I went out shopping, I alwasy saw something that caught my eye that would look *good* on my husband... ended up with 1 suitcase of ####### just for him, forgettting all the stuff I had bought before. I ended up taking all I could back, slapping my own hand and bringing what I could not return here to Algeria. I did not give him all of it. I am not going to train him into that mode. I gave him 2 things, gave some to his family and th rest to the masjid. That way I least felt better about this heinous act of mine.

And I also want to add: Living with my husband turned out to be so much different then the man I had met years before and had talked to on the Net. Different not in a bad way of course, elhamdullah...just different. I saw all his flaws, his attributes, his mannerism for the real true self that he is. The reality of marriage life sank in. No more romantisized amour talk: I miss you, I love you, I cannot live without you...etc. We learned to lean on each other, finally understood we are all that we have...each other. Talking in the Net, looking at him throu that little screen did not tell the whole story. I mean, yes we talked and got to know each other. Knew all the facts about the other, all the words exchanged. Met over the years, buuuut the truth be told you can only know a person once you spent much much time with them...live with them. And with this said: I beg you all out there, get to know your man. Life is not one day or one 2 week holiday. For me, I am glad I spent this much time with him. Got to understand his culture, his culture's mentality and customs... I get what he is about now. Maybe if I had not have come here, spent this much time with him...maybe we have gone throu the process, he come over and knowing myself I get pretty much fed up with him and tell him 'sod off' ...but Subhan'Allah coming here...has been a blessing. Nothing can replace the gestures, the actions, the behaviours you see when you are with that person. Words can be used, manipulated, twisted, formed ... but actions cannot lie. As my husband says "we must build experiences".

_______________

Bismikal lahumma amootu wa ahya Henia

[Jenn! 918]

But when the man does not have a job, and makes NO attempt to even look for one (ie: he is online all the day) then I feel it is major red flag. I understand the ecomonically hardships of various countries, but come on --> even a shitty little job selling tea or ice creme on the corner can make you little money (and more importantly make you humble and show you are TRYING) I think a good man with serious intentions would be out there trying his best to put a little something away for the next time he sees you or to buy that fon card to call you or for when you both are together. Amount of money he makes really is not the issue...it is that fact he is trying.

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about this, really. Maybe it just didn't really apply to our situation since we were already living together and had mixed finances well before his time in Morocco. I didn't see the need for him to be selling ice cream on the corner when it was not that big of a deal just to send a bit of money. I can't imagine him making me do something like that just to prove a point about work ethic.

It makes me kind of sad to think of a man who is planning his future life in America with a woman who perhaps is not all that strapped for cash selling tea on the corner. Is it just me, or does it seem a little sad? I have a hard time seeing how the need for him to get a job, any job, is much more than gender roles at work.

I suppose one must just make the distinction between someone who is temporarily unemployed and one who makes a living off of mooching....

[brnidokiegurl 0]

I think that would be quickly noticed, meaning his work ethics. Does he pride himself in working and doing for himself? does he make the effort to call you, does he make at least some effort to send at least a small card? etc Basically we know they are not (money) rich but hey im not either, but they need the desire, their past and present work norms will become the future when you are together. Luckily mine works morning until late night every day so much i tell him he needs to take a break because he wanted to save for the doctor, the visa etc and have money in his pocket if and when he gets to come. Also at the same time, he helps his family and help with the children at the orphanage so i feel he has a good background in this area.

[Aymerlu 3]

But when the man does not have a job, and makes NO attempt to even look for one (ie: he is online all the day) then I feel it is major red flag. I understand the ecomonically hardships of various countries, but come on --> even a shitty little job selling tea or ice creme on the corner can make you little money (and more importantly make you humble and show you are TRYING) I think a good man with serious intentions would be out there trying his best to put a little something away for the next time he sees you or to buy that fon card to call you or for when you both are together. Amount of money he makes really is not the issue...it is that fact he is trying.

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about this, really. Maybe it just didn't really apply to our situation since we were already living together and had mixed finances well before his time in Morocco. I didn't see the need for him to be selling ice cream on the corner when it was not that big of a deal just to send a bit of money. I can't imagine him making me do something like that just to prove a point about work ethic.

It makes me kind of sad to think of a man who is planning his future life in America with a woman who perhaps is not all that strapped for cash selling tea on the corner. Is it just me, or does it seem a little sad? I have a hard time seeing how the need for him to get a job, any job, is much more than gender roles at work.

I suppose one must just make the distinction between someone who is temporarily unemployed and one who makes a living off of mooching....

Khallid had been teaching in Egypt for 17 years when we applied for his visa. There in Egypt teachers have to sign a contract to teach for a year and they are not able to get out of the contract easily. Bascially if he signed a 1 year teaching contract, he worked for 6 and then received his visa and wanted to come to me, he'd have to pay the remaining 6 months of his salary to get out of the contract. And in Egypt if you are a teacher....that's really the only work you can do. Your profession is stamped on your I.D When we started the process we honestly didn't think it would take over a year for him to get his visa so we both talked and decided he wouldn't work till he received his visa. He was able to do private duty tutoring on occasion and he did look for work in cafes and such, but when they asked him "what did you do wrong to why you are not teaching now?" he know it was a lost cause. I did send him money to help him out since he did quit his job for me. Thankfully this was never brought up at his interview.

[Marry American 0]

i think some people think red flags are a joke. i am so sorry for them. why get into a relationship and know you wont be able to get through the immigration process?? i dont get it. was it really a joke on all of us here???

chi

I agree, chi. The whole "I laugh in the face of red flags, HA HA HA"-attitude is a little hard to swallow. But you can only help people to a certain point. The most we can do is make the issues known and hope that people will come to realize that a consular officer might not have the same impression of your relationship that you do.

I too agree with Chi. Despite what we think, it is not our right to marry whom we choose, as stated on the other thread. We are really at the mercy of the US government and the consulate.

In addition to number 7, we have the age diff but only 10 years. Then there is the overweight divorced with kids that someone mentioned..but the only thing really addresssed at the interview was previous marriage to moroccan. Fortunately I had not petitioned a visa for him, only AOS. The best way to overcome any red flag is make sure your SO is comfortable enough to respond to any questions about it at the interview.

(no I am not mad about the overweight divorced with kids comment from another thread...I understand the point that was being made with it).

You can marry whoever you want to marry. Bringing them to the United States is a different thing.

I do not forsee us having a problem with any of the redflags.

[Marry American 0]

We didn't have any of the red flags listed above, but our red flags were a difference in education and also that I sent him money. We were both living and working in Europe, and he went back to Morocco when I came back to the U.S. so we could do the petition. I guess he could have worked during the waiting period so as to reduce any suspicion by the consulate, but we just hoped that things would go quickly and that it would be better for him to spend the time with his family (he hadn't seen them in over 6 years!). Turns out it wasn't brought up at all at the interview - his being unemployed or my sending him money. And we were really lucky to have a speedy process so that he was in Morocco for less than six months.

Must be nice not to work and get money sent to you. A vacation that last for months.