Farmers Mull Replacing Illegal Workers With Robots

[GaryC 7]

LOS ANGELES — With authorities promising tighter borders, some farmers who rely on immigrant labor are eyeing an emerging generation of fruit-picking robots and high-tech tractors to do everything from pluck premium wine grapes to clean and core lettuce.

Such machines, now in various stages of development, could become essential for harvesting delicate fruits and vegetables that are still picked by hand.

"If we want to maintain our current agriculture here in California, that's where mechanization comes in," said Jack King, national affairs manager for the California Farm Bureau.

California harvests about half the nation's fruits, nuts and vegetables, according to the state Food and Agriculture Department. The California Farm Bureau Federation estimates that the job requires about 225,000 workers year-round and double that during the peak summer season.

More than half of all farm workers in the country are illegal immigrants, according to U.S. Department of Labor statistics.

Last year, amid heightened immigration enforcement, California's seasonal migration was marked by spot worker shortages, and some fruit was left to rot in the fields.

"There's a lot of very nervous people out there in agriculture in terms of what's going to be available in the labor force," said Robert Wample, viticulture and enology program director at California State University, Fresno.

Mechanized picking wouldn't be new for some California crops such as canning tomatoes, low-grade wine grapes and nuts.

But the fresh produce that dominates the state's agricultural output — and that consumers expect to find unblemished in supermarkets — is too fragile to be picked by the machines now in use.

The new pickers rely on advances in computing power and hydraulics that can make robotic limbs and digits operate with near-human sensitivity. Modern imaging technology also enables the machines to recognize and sort fruits and vegetables of varying qualities.

"The technology is maturing just at the right time to allow us to do this kind of work economically," said Derek Morikawa, whose San Diego-based Vision Robotics has been working with the California Citrus Research Board and Washington State Apple Commission to develop a fruit picker.

The process involves sending a mechanized scanning unit into orchards and orange groves. Equipped with digital-imaging technology, it creates a three-dimensional map displaying the location, ripeness and quality of fruit. A robotic picker then follows the maps, using its long mechanical arms to carefully pluck the ripe produce.

A prototype was tested last month, but it is still a few years from being ready for widespread commercial use, said Ted Batkin, a grower and president of the citrus board.

A set of scanning and harvesting units will likely cost about $500,000 when the equipment reaches market, Morikawa said.

Elsewhere, a team led by wine specialists at California State University, Fresno, is working on an automated picker to further mechanize the wine-grape business.

Growers of low- and mid-grade wine grapes already use mechanical harvesters, but picking and sorting premium grapes still requires a human touch.

The new technology includes a device called a near-infrared spectrometer, which measures the sugar levels and chemical content of grape samples before they are picked, Wample said. The data is then plotted to a global positioning system map, which a mechanical harvester uses to navigate the vineyards and pluck specific bunches at ideal ripeness.

The system has been under development for the past four years and is being tested in vineyards. The approximate cost of the two components is $230,000.

Salinas Valley-based Ramsay Highlander sells machines that partially automate lettuce picking by using band saws or water knives to cut the lettuce from the earth and convey it into bins for cleaning and processing.

The company is nearing completion on a new model that picks, cleans, cores and packs lettuce and other greens, chief executive Frank Maconachy said. It will likely cost between $250,000 and $400,000, he said.

"Because of the immigration issue, migrant workers are becoming a difficult entity to find," Maconachy said. "If growers have a crop that needs to be harvested and there aren't the people to do it, they'll need to find a mechanized way to do it."

Philip Martin, an agricultural economist at the University of California, Davis, said it was still unclear if heightened immigration enforcement would drive away enough workers to justify huge expenditures by growers on new machinery.

And the number of variables involved makes it difficult to determine how much, if anything, growers could save by switching to automated systems.

But some growers are excited by the prospect of having robots and a few trained technicians who know how to operate them replace the droves of manual laborers they currently depend on.

"It will open up a lot of opportunity for better paying jobs in the agriculture industry and perhaps get us out of the mentality that being a farm worker is a dirty job," said Batkin, the citrus farmer.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295965,00.html

[Jasman0717 9]

They won't need a medical exam

[Dan J 277]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

[pedroh 21]

domo arigato señor roboto!

[GaryC 7]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

[Dan J 277]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

[Ban Hammer 14,269]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

just can't win with you can we?

who do you think is going to manufacture, program, and maintain these robots?

[GaryC 7]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the beginning of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skilled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

Progress is inevitable. Without the added preasure of millions of gate crashers our workforce would adapt. I would rather have robots picking fruit than illegals.

[Dan J 277]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

just can't win with you can we?

who do you think is going to manufacture, program, and maintain these robots?

Not the people who are going to loose their jobs.

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the beginning of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skilled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

Progress is inevitable. Without the added preasure of millions of gate crashers our workforce would adapt. I would rather have robots picking fruit than illegals.

I was not talking about progress. I was talking about wether or not you care about jobs for low skilled citizen workers. In one context you seem to, but in another, you don't. Which is it?

[Ban Hammer 14,269]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

just can't win with you can we?

who do you think is going to manufacture, program, and maintain these robots?

Not the people who are going to loose their jobs.

they are illegal, why is that a major issue? and those who manufacture, program, and repair/maintain the robots will have a job, plus you'll still have your low cost lettuce and other veggies.

[GaryC 7]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

just can't win with you can we?

who do you think is going to manufacture, program, and maintain these robots?

Not the people who are going to loose their jobs.

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the beginning of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skilled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

Progress is inevitable. Without the added preasure of millions of gate crashers our workforce would adapt. I would rather have robots picking fruit than illegals.

I was not talking about progress. I was talking about wether or not you care about jobs for low skilled citizen workers. In one context you seem to, but in another, you don't. Which is it?

I don't give a flying fukc about illegals. They don't deserve any jobs here. We can deal with progress.

[Dan J 277]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

just can't win with you can we?

who do you think is going to manufacture, program, and maintain these robots?

Not the people who are going to loose their jobs.

they are illegal, why is that a major issue? and those who manufacture, program, and repair/maintain the robots will have a job, plus you'll still have your low cost lettuce and other veggies.

Your making an assumption, all Ag workers are illegal. While some of them are, many are citizens or are here on a visa. So what will happen to the citizens who will loose their jobs?

I don't give a flying fukc about illegals. They don't deserve any jobs here. We can deal with progress.

Apparently, you feel the same about low skilled workers, regardless of their status.

[Ban Hammer 14,269]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

just can't win with you can we?

who do you think is going to manufacture, program, and maintain these robots?

Not the people who are going to loose their jobs.

they are illegal, why is that a major issue? and those who manufacture, program, and repair/maintain the robots will have a job, plus you'll still have your low cost lettuce and other veggies.

Your making an assumption, all Ag workers are illegal. While some of them are, many are citizens or are here on a visa. So what will happen to the citizens who will loose their jobs?

who do you think will be well qualified to operate those robots? at the same time, they can cross train in repairing and maintaining them too. the glass isn't always half empty, you know?

[GaryC 7]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

just can't win with you can we?

who do you think is going to manufacture, program, and maintain these robots?

Not the people who are going to loose their jobs.

they are illegal, why is that a major issue? and those who manufacture, program, and repair/maintain the robots will have a job, plus you'll still have your low cost lettuce and other veggies.

Your making an assumption, all Ag workers are illegal. While some of them are, many are citizens or are here on a visa. So what will happen to the citizens who will loose their jobs?

I don't give a flying fukc about illegals. They don't deserve any jobs here. We can deal with progress.

Apparently, you feel the same about low skilled workers, regardless of their status.

No, but I do feel that way about your opinions though.

[Dan J 277]

I do recall one of the arguments you made Gary against illegal aliens is that they take away jobs from low skilled citizens, but don't robots do the same thing? Low skilled citizens wont be able to run or maintain any of these robots. Not to mention, it keeps more of the money in higher skilled jobs, which further increases the disparity between rich and poor.

And as I recall you said that illegals were necessary for our economy. It seems that in the agriculture arena they are not.

Running a machine isn't very hard. That argument was given at the begining of the automated machine tool era. The machines are a "push to start" and "push to stop" type. You could train anyone to run them.

But you miss the point, robots would take away 200 low skill jobs and replace them with a couple higher skilled jobs. These low skilled workers are not all illegal, many are citizens, and others are here on work visas. Your argument has been that illegal aliens take away jobs from low skilled workers, but so do robots. But to you its OK in one case, but not OK in the other. Your inconsistent in how you apply that argument. Its ok to take jobs away from low skiled citizens if replacing them with robots, but not OK, if replacing them with cheap immigrant labor.

just can't win with you can we?

who do you think is going to manufacture, program, and maintain these robots?

Not the people who are going to loose their jobs.

they are illegal, why is that a major issue? and those who manufacture, program, and repair/maintain the robots will have a job, plus you'll still have your low cost lettuce and other veggies.

Your making an assumption, all Ag workers are illegal. While some of them are, many are citizens or are here on a visa. So what will happen to the citizens who will loose their jobs?

who do you think will be well qualified to operate those robots? at the same time, they can cross train in repairing and maintaining them too. the glass isn't always half empty, you know?

But you need many fewer people to run and maintain a robot, than you need manual labor to handle the harvesting. Low skilled workers will be out of a job, and fewer jobs will be available for them. I think you were saying about how not everyone can afford to go to school?