Collapse in US lending standards has "central banks are scared out of their minds"

[Dan J 277]

You know what you sound like? The stereotypical republican!! Welcome friend!!!!

More like a libertarian actually

[Heracles 417]

Its a conundrum - at what point do we strike a balance between paying a fair wage for USC to maintain a bare minimum standard of living and ensuring a companies profits and the availability of affordable products. Seems to me that a lot of people want it every which way. Can we have all these things without illegal labour being in the mix somehow?

The problem is we could set a minimum wage to $1000 a week but as long as illegal immigrants are an option to employers; employers will continue to use them.. So it cancels out the minimum wage.

Hence why the US needs to urgently and properly secure the borders and heavily punish anyone who employs illegal immigrants.. With them out of a job this will greatly increase the demand. Therefore wages will automatically rise; especially for the low paid worker. That is, the worker who needs it the most..

Edited August 21, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Thats irellevent. Many illegals are also get paid above minimum wage. Although your arguments don't sound so good when you look at it that way.

Of course I'm anti-union, mostly anyway (As they have been rather abused). I don't think what a person earns should be based only on how long you work for a company. That style of thinking died a long time ago. What you should be paid, should depend what you can bring to the company.

Yes, life is unfair, welcome to life.

I agree it should be. But then I look at a number of my former bosses and wonder why they were paid so much more than me for doing so much less...

[GaryC 7]

If someone doesn't have a job, there is probably a good reason for it.

such as?

Illegals?

Or they don't want to do the jobs that are available. Have disabilities that limit the kind of jobs they can do. Have trouble holding down a job. No initiative to take education seriously or try to get ahead.

So let me understand you. You think it's OK to hire someone for sub minimum wages (which puts you on the side of big business). This by definition makes you anti-union because they are not paying union scale and are working without a contract. You don't care about the little guy (USC) because you say they should compete against an unfair system. You know what you sound like? The stereotypical republican!! Welcome friend!!!!

Thats irellevent. Many illegals are also get paid above minimum wage. Although your arguments don't sound so good when you look at it that way.

Of course I'm anti-union, mostly anyway (As they have been rather abused). I don't think what a person earns should be based only on how long you work for a company. That style of thinking died a long time ago. What you should be paid, should depend what you can bring to the company.

Yes, life is unfair, welcome to life.

Lets make it fair then, give an illegal your job. Go ahead, put your money where your mouth is.

[Dan J 277]

If someone doesn't have a job, there is probably a good reason for it.

such as?

Illegals?

Or they don't want to do the jobs that are available. Have disabilities that limit the kind of jobs they can do. Have trouble holding down a job. No initiative to take education seriously or try to get ahead.

So let me understand you. You think it's OK to hire someone for sub minimum wages (which puts you on the side of big business). This by definition makes you anti-union because they are not paying union scale and are working without a contract. You don't care about the little guy (USC) because you say they should compete against an unfair system. You know what you sound like? The stereotypical republican!! Welcome friend!!!!

Thats irellevent. Many illegals are also get paid above minimum wage. Although your arguments don't sound so good when you look at it that way.

Of course I'm anti-union, mostly anyway (As they have been rather abused). I don't think what a person earns should be based only on how long you work for a company. That style of thinking died a long time ago. What you should be paid, should depend what you can bring to the company.

Yes, life is unfair, welcome to life.

Lets make it fair then, give an illegal your job. Go ahead, put your money where your mouth is.

Did I say I wanted to make it fair? I think that was you, so about your job.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

At what point did this become about illegals?

[Dan J 277]

Its a conundrum - at what point do we strike a balance between paying a fair wage for USC to maintain a bare minimum standard of living and ensuring a companies profits and the availability of affordable products. Seems to me that a lot of people want it every which way. Can we have all these things without illegal labour being in the mix somehow?

The problem is we could set a minimum wage to $1000 a week but as long as illegal immigrants are an option to employers; employers will continue to use them.. So it cancels out the minimum wage.

Hence why the US needs to urgently and properly secure the borders and heavily punish anyone who employs illegal immigrants.. With them out of a job this will greatly increase the demand. Therefore wages will automatically rise; especially for the low paid worker. That is, the worker who needs it the most..

Your assuming that illegals will always be paid below minimum wage. So lets change your argument a little to the reality. Minimum wage is $1000 per week, and that what illegals are getting paid. Then we have the USC who comes in and wants $1500 a week, but doesn't have any extra skills or is no more productive. But its likely you will still be upset.

Minimum wage is relative. You could make it $100,000 per year, and those making minimum wage would still be in poverty. Everyone else with more skills would still be making more than that.

Your going to pay benefits to those in poverty no matter what they are making. Unless you don't mind the crime rates going up. Is it really necessary to have an artificial floor?

At what point did this become about illegals?

Didn't you hear, its the new trend, blame all your trouble on illegals. To hell with taking personal responsibility for your situation.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Libertarians coming out. So nice.

[Ban Hammer 14,571]

Libertarians coming out. So nice.

don't you guys have some sorta test before you can proclaim being a libertarian?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Libertarians coming out. So nice.

You guys are all over the map with your positions. I don't remember you embracing illegal aliens in this country.

[Caladan 19]

At what point did this become about illegals?

Everything is about illegals, Trolly McTroll.

Aren't you 'libertarians' supposed to be against things like national ID cards? 'Libertarian' means more than 'non-religious Republican who likes wars.

[Caladan 19]

Given that these days you need a degree to meet the minimum requirements for most (if not all) professional jobs, if you don't have that / can't afford it you're going to have real problems.

so again i have to wonder. if a kid wants to go to college yet can't get one of these low skill jobs to save money while on summer vacation, what then is he or she to do?

Plenty of kids I went to school with still worked construction or painting houses in summers to get themselves partially through school. The biggest problem with the low-wage-to-save-for-college plan is the rising cost of college, not the inability to find summer work. When my dad went to college it was possible to come up with tuition and living expense in a summer's work. That's $45,000 a year at some schools now. So summer work tends to be more book money.

I would love to see the U.S. re-establish its manufacturing base.

Try doing that now... Not an option anymore with illegal immigrants..

I'm 28. My friends were working construction jobs and painting jobs in 2001. It is an option. Not everything can be blamed on illegals.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

One of my first jobs after getting my EAD was working as a day-labourer for a construction / land surveying company. And that was in 2005.

[Heracles 417]

Your assuming that illegals will always be paid below minimum wage. So lets change your argument a little to the reality. Minimum wage is $1000 per week, and that what illegals are getting paid. Then we have the USC who comes in and wants $1500 a week, but doesn't have any extra skills or is no more productive. But its likely you will still be upset.

Minimum wage is relative. You could make it $100,000 per year, and those making minimum wage would still be in poverty. Everyone else with more skills would still be making more than that.

Your going to pay benefits to those in poverty no matter what they are making. Unless you don't mind the crime rates going up. Is it really necessary to have an artificial floor?

The have the skills lol.. The only thing the have is the ability to screw over poor Americans and steal their jobs. I don't blame them for that. I blame the employers for hiring them. I also blame the government for doing nothing to protect this nation..

[Heracles 417]

Try doing that now... Not an option anymore with illegal immigrants..

I'm 28. My friends were working construction jobs and painting jobs in 2001. It is an option. Not everything can be blamed on illegals.

Where did you live? What is the rate of illegal immigrants in your area? Between 2001 to 2007 there has been a huge influx of illegal immigrants.