Collapse in US lending standards has "central banks are scared out of their minds"

[Dan J 277]

Sure they get displaced.

But that still doesn't answer my point does it?

so if they get displaced, what do they do then? live on welfare? since we've had quotes of what, 45 million in poverty in the usa, those 12-20 million taking up jobs surely does not help the lower end usc's.

Your making an assumption here. That those jobs would pay enough to get them out of poverty. Many low end jobs don't.

and those jobs could also serve as a springboard to higher paying jobs. but as they can't hold them, there goes their chance....and their chance to get out of poverty

How many low skilled jobs do that? Unless you improve your skills, you are going to stay were you are at. Some might get into lead or manager positions, but there are not positions like that for everyone. And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker. Depending on your situation, you may still be in poverty.

working is one of the best ways to get ahead in life. take that away and the lower class will never get anywhere. and yes, a low skill job can lead to a higher level job as the worker can learn something, make contacts, and network. but i see you'd rather the usc didn't have that opportunity.

That may have been true 50 years ago, when a low skilled manufacturing job could get you a middle class life. But things have changed. Without education, there are very few if any opportunities to get ahead. You can still do it, but you have to take more initiative to seek out better opportunities.

[Ban Hammer 14,569]

Given that these days you need a degree to meet the minimum requirements for most (if not all) professional jobs, if you don't have that / can't afford it you're going to have real problems.

so again i have to wonder. if a kid wants to go to college yet can't get one of these low skill jobs to save money while on summer vacation, what then is he or she to do?

Sure they get displaced.

But that still doesn't answer my point does it?

so if they get displaced, what do they do then? live on welfare? since we've had quotes of what, 45 million in poverty in the usa, those 12-20 million taking up jobs surely does not help the lower end usc's.

Your making an assumption here. That those jobs would pay enough to get them out of poverty. Many low end jobs don't.

and those jobs could also serve as a springboard to higher paying jobs. but as they can't hold them, there goes their chance....and their chance to get out of poverty

How many low skilled jobs do that? Unless you improve your skills, you are going to stay were you are at. Some might get into lead or manager positions, but there are not positions like that for everyone. And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker. Depending on your situation, you may still be in poverty.

working is one of the best ways to get ahead in life. take that away and the lower class will never get anywhere. and yes, a low skill job can lead to a higher level job as the worker can learn something, make contacts, and network. but i see you'd rather the usc didn't have that opportunity.

That may have been true 50 years ago, when a low skilled manufacturing job could get you a middle class life. But things have changed. Without education, there are very few if any opportunities to get ahead. You can still do it, but you have to take more initiative to seek out better opportunities.

yet the fact remains that such is possible and you admitted it. yet why are we short circuiting our fellow usc's?

[Dan J 277]

Given that these days you need a degree to meet the minimum requirements for most (if not all) professional jobs, if you don't have that / can't afford it you're going to have real problems.

so again i have to wonder. if a kid wants to go to college yet can't get one of these low skill jobs to save money while on summer vacation, what then is he or she to do?

Do what everyone else has to do. Show to a company that you are worth paying more for. Collage kids have the advantage of having a flexible schedule. That can be used to your advantage.

[Caladan 19]

Given that these days you need a degree to meet the minimum requirements for most (if not all) professional jobs, if you don't have that / can't afford it you're going to have real problems.

so again i have to wonder. if a kid wants to go to college yet can't get one of these low skill jobs to save money while on summer vacation, what then is he or she to do?

Plenty of kids I went to school with still worked construction or painting houses in summers to get themselves partially through school. The biggest problem with the low-wage-to-save-for-college plan is the rising cost of college, not the inability to find summer work. When my dad went to college it was possible to come up with tuition and living expense in a summer's work. That's $45,000 a year at some schools now. So summer work tends to be more book money.

I would love to see the U.S. re-establish its manufacturing base.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Work harder to compensate for being born working class. Class divide isn't really anything new. And the US is far from a classless society.

Unsurprisingly the people at the bottom of the pile are the ones who get shat on. Always been that way.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker.

Really? I must have always been quite lucky then. Across various industries and companies. You just made my day. Thx.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

College educations have also become devalued to some respects due to the large numbers of people graduating. These days an undergraduate degree is a bare minimum requirement to get any entry level position. You really need an MA to stand out - but if you don't have an idea what you want to do with your education - its tends to end up being wasted. That and some of the courses offered are of questionable application post-grad...

On the plus side - the kid who has had to fight to pay his/her way through college probably has a better idea of what they want from their education than someone whose parents pay their fare.

[Caladan 19]

I know it's trendy to blame illegals for everything (or the Hispanic ones, at least), but this just doesn't add up.

Securities traders tend not to have immigrated from Mexico. In fact, they're usually all-American chets from the best American private schools. Investment banking firms? Not known for hiring illegals. Illegal workers? Not known for flipping real estate.

You should know how difficult it is to migrate to Canada, unless you satisfy the points system. Why would Canada have such a great system?? Common sense. You only allow in the workers you need..

Whereas in the US, for example, you still have thousands upon thousands of IT workers coming here daily. Well as long as there is room in the visa quota; then you are in. It like guys time to bring the American immigration system into the 21st century.. Lets not even count the illegal immigrants, low skilled workers, who come in as 'they' see fit..

You're confusing everything together here. Illegal labor is not the same as H1-Bs going to IT workers is not the same as needing points to get to Canada (which isn't as hard as it looks.) We could switch over to a points system this instant and it wouldn't stop the flow of illegal workers.

And none of this has to do with mortgages. Some thing are not the fault of immigration.

[Dan J 277]

And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker.

Really? I must have always been quite lucky then. Across various industries and companies. You just made my day. Thx.

I bet most of the people you started out at the bottom with are still there or in a similar job.

[Caladan 19]

College educations have also become devalued to some respects due to the large numbers of people graduating. These days an undergraduate degree is a bare minimum requirement to get any entry level position. You really need an MA to stand out - but if you don't have an idea what you want to do with your education - its tends to end up being wasted. That and some of the courses offered are of questionable application post-grad...

On the plus side - the kid who has had to fight to pay his/her way through college probably has a better idea of what they want from their education than someone whose parents pay their fare.

In my experience, the kids from poorer backgrounds are more driven but less polished, meaning while they might value their education more, they don't know how to navigate a lot of the business world as easily. (i.e., rich Yale kid has his dad give him an internship after freshman year, they send him to DC to work for a Senator after sophomore year, and then just happens to have all that experience to land the Goldman Sachs internship which leads to the job. Poor Yale kid works at McDonald's one summer, a summer camp the next, and has a much harder time getting that golden internship.) Plus, master's degrees usually require a hell of a lot of loans, which is easier to bear if you're not already in debt from undergrad.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Mate of mine is just finishing a PHD. His burden of debt is frightening.

So is my wife - she only did an undergrad and her debt is around $60K ($300 a month in repayments).

I count myself lucky to have done my degree in the last year when the UK govt paid for the tuition. They don't any more, and also scrapped the assistance grants in favour of unlimited student loans. That was actually one of the big things (besides Iraq) which ruined Tony Blair's reputation with the electorate.

[Heracles 417]

Good grief Boo-Yah, where do you get these ridiculous ideas about our "stagnant economy"

or "Australian brick layers making more than US managers"?

Let's see...

US GDP per capita: $44,000 vs Australia's $32,900

US GDP growth: 3.2% vs Australia's 3.8%

US Inflation: 2.4% vs Australia's 2.1%

US unemployment rate: 4.4% vs Australia's 4.3%

So far the numbers seem pretty similar, except:

US National Debt: 62% of GDP

Australia's National Debt: 90% of GDP

The economy has stagnated in comparison to the rest of the world. The only thing still keeping it afloat is companies who are operating abroad. This easy credit and property flipping gave the economy the illusion that all was well. Which is clearly not the case. i would recommend looking at the WSJ..

PS Brick layers downunder can make up to $1000 USD per day.. Due to a shortage of skilled blue-collar workers, most average a good $65K to $130k annually..

[GaryC 7]

And even then, you don't earn much more in a lead position over your average worker.

Really? I must have always been quite lucky then. Across various industries and companies. You just made my day. Thx.

I bet most of the people you started out at the bottom with are still there or in a similar job.

I beg to differ. I started out in one of those jobs (many of them really) and I did work my way up from the bottom. I picked apples, hoed fields, put up hay, flipped hamburgers and washed cars. Each job taught me something that I could use to step up in the world. They also kept me going while I worked my way through tech school. Now I couldn't do the same thing because of the illegals. They are willing to work for half of what I would make at the same job. I am essentially shut out of the starter jobs that Americans need when they try to get a start in life.

[Heracles 417]

Sure they get displaced.

But that still doesn't answer my point does it?

so if they get displaced, what do they do then? live on welfare? since we've had quotes of what, 45 million in poverty in the usa, those 12-20 million taking up jobs surely does not help the lower end usc's.

Your making an assumption here. That those jobs would pay enough to get them out of poverty. Many low end jobs don't.

What about no job.. How much does that pay??

[mawilson 2,133]

The economy has stagnated in comparison to the rest of the world. The only thing still keeping it afloat is companies who are operating abroad.

Do you have any specific examples and numbers to substantiate this claim?