Elvira Arellano deported, Chicago pastor says

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Emma Lozano, Coleman's wife and head of immigration rights group Centro Sin Fronteras in Chicago, said she was Saul's legal guardian. At an afternoon press conference in Los Angeles, the boy hid behind Lozano and wiped away tears.

Looks like mom abandoned her child.

Set him up with other care and walked away courtesy of her own law breaking activities. The choice to leave her son behind … well she did make that choice.

Don't you love how the same people who are all against gay marriage to preserve "family" have no sympathy for a family being broken up due to immigration issues?

The mom broke up the family.

She chose to leave the child behind. The guilt belongs to mom ... nobody else or any other entity ... but mom.

And you missed the point entirely.

Because you had no point. All you tried to do was make a link between people that don't like gay marriage and a felonious gate crasher having to make the choice between taking her child with her or leaving it behind. There is no linkage except in your own mind.

So I was too abstract for you then? There are many people who make the argument against gay marriage on the basis of preservation of family. But many of those same people are willing to throw away preservation of family when nationalism comes into play. Which makes the arguing for the preservation of family hypocritical if your willing to throw it away in a situation where a family was is seperated by a crime. When that crime isn't necessarily morally reprehensible. We are not talking about murder, violence, or theft.

If you are really are sympathetic, show it, instead of your nationalistic arrogance.

Excellently put!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

justice served

[GaryC 7]

Emma Lozano, Coleman's wife and head of immigration rights group Centro Sin Fronteras in Chicago, said she was Saul's legal guardian. At an afternoon press conference in Los Angeles, the boy hid behind Lozano and wiped away tears.

Looks like mom abandoned her child.

Set him up with other care and walked away courtesy of her own law breaking activities. The choice to leave her son behind … well she did make that choice.

Don't you love how the same people who are all against gay marriage to preserve "family" have no sympathy for a family being broken up due to immigration issues?

The mom broke up the family.

She chose to leave the child behind. The guilt belongs to mom ... nobody else or any other entity ... but mom.

And you missed the point entirely.

Because you had no point. All you tried to do was make a link between people that don't like gay marriage and a felonious gate crasher having to make the choice between taking her child with her or leaving it behind. There is no linkage except in your own mind.

So I was too abstract for you then? There are many people who make the argument against gay marriage on the basis of preservation of family. But many of those same people are willing to throw away preservation of family when nationalism comes into play. Which makes the arguing for the preservation of family hypocritical if your willing to throw it away in a situation where a family was is separated by a crime. When that crime isn't necessarily morally reprehensible. We are not talking about murder, violence, or theft.

If you are really are sympathetic, show it, instead of your nationalistic arrogance.

Your missing the point. Nationalism has nothing to do with it. It's all about breaking the law and suffering the penalty for it. This woman committed a felony. Just because she has a child has no bearing on the situation. SHE could have elected to take her child with her but she didn't. Why should be look the other way and in the interest of "family unity" let her stay? It was her choice to break up the family, not ours. And you attempt to change the subject isn't working. It's obvious what your trying to do and I will not let you get away with it. Instead of showing your elitist arrogance try showing some respect for the law.

[smoke20 0]

I would like to remind everyone that this woman committed a felony. She was here illegally, was deported and came back. The second offence is a felony. She is lucky all she got was deported.

Immigration law contains both civil and criminal provisions. The removal of aliens,

however severe its consequences, has been “consistently classified as a civil rather than

a criminal procedure” by the courts.1 On the other hand, the Immigration and Nationality

Act (INA) contains several provisions that are unambiguously penal in nature, subjecting

offenders to imprisonment and/or fine under Title 18 of the U.S. Code.

Certain immigration violations carry civil and criminal consequences. An alien who

enters or attempts to enter the United States without authorization is not only subject to

removal or exclusion but is also subject to criminal prosecution, with a first offense

subject to six months’ imprisonment (a misdemeanor) and any subsequent offense

punishable by up to two years’ incarceration (a felony).

http://www.ilw.com/immigdaily/news/2006,0509-crs.pdf

GARY HOW DARE YOU CLOUD THE ISSUE WITH FACTS!!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There are many people who make the argument against gay marriage on the basis of preservation of family. But many of those same people are willing to throw away preservation of family when nationalism comes into play. Which makes the arguing for the preservation of family hypocritical if your willing to throw it away in a situation where a family was is seperated by a crime. When that crime isn't necessarily morally reprehensible. We are not talking about murder, violence, or theft.

Nobody but the illegal alien has separated a family. It's all by her doing and by her choice.

[Ban Hammer 14,602]

next up, bank robbers and killers let out of jail because they have family.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I would like to remind everyone that this woman committed a felony. She was here illegally, was deported and came back. The second offence is a felony. She is lucky all she got was deported.

Immigration law contains both civil and criminal provisions. The removal of aliens,

however severe its consequences, has been “consistently classified as a civil rather than

a criminal procedure” by the courts.1 On the other hand, the Immigration and Nationality

Act (INA) contains several provisions that are unambiguously penal in nature, subjecting

offenders to imprisonment and/or fine under Title 18 of the U.S. Code.

Certain immigration violations carry civil and criminal consequences. An alien who

enters or attempts to enter the United States without authorization is not only subject to

removal or exclusion but is also subject to criminal prosecution, with a first offense

subject to six months’ imprisonment (a misdemeanor) and any subsequent offense

punishable by up to two years’ incarceration (a felony).

http://www.ilw.com/immigdaily/news/2006,0509-crs.pdf

GARY HOW DARE YOU CLOUD THE ISSUE WITH FACTS!!

Really, Gary. Facts have no place in this debate. Shame on you.

[GaryC 7]

Really, Gary. Facts have no place in this debate. Shame on you.

Yeah I know. My bad. As long as I am clouding the issue with the facts I would also like to point out that she committed a second crime of using a false SSN. The woman isn't some sort of a symbol of our countries lack of compassion, she is a criminal that is lucky to have her freedom in her own country instead of sitting in prison.

[Dan J 277]

Emma Lozano, Coleman's wife and head of immigration rights group Centro Sin Fronteras in Chicago, said she was Saul's legal guardian. At an afternoon press conference in Los Angeles, the boy hid behind Lozano and wiped away tears.

Looks like mom abandoned her child.

Set him up with other care and walked away courtesy of her own law breaking activities. The choice to leave her son behind … well she did make that choice.

Don't you love how the same people who are all against gay marriage to preserve "family" have no sympathy for a family being broken up due to immigration issues?

The mom broke up the family.

She chose to leave the child behind. The guilt belongs to mom ... nobody else or any other entity ... but mom.

And you missed the point entirely.

Because you had no point. All you tried to do was make a link between people that don't like gay marriage and a felonious gate crasher having to make the choice between taking her child with her or leaving it behind. There is no linkage except in your own mind.

So I was too abstract for you then? There are many people who make the argument against gay marriage on the basis of preservation of family. But many of those same people are willing to throw away preservation of family when nationalism comes into play. Which makes the arguing for the preservation of family hypocritical if your willing to throw it away in a situation where a family was is separated by a crime. When that crime isn't necessarily morally reprehensible. We are not talking about murder, violence, or theft.

If you are really are sympathetic, show it, instead of your nationalistic arrogance.

Your missing the point. Nationalism has nothing to do with it. It's all about breaking the law and suffering the penalty for it. This woman committed a felony. Just because she has a child has no bearing on the situation. SHE could have elected to take her child with her but she didn't. Why should be look the other way and in the interest of "family unity" let her stay? It was her choice to break up the family, not ours. And you attempt to change the subject isn't working. It's obvious what your trying to do and I will not let you get away with it. Instead of showing your elitist arrogance try showing some respect for the law.

Sometimes a crime is just. The world isn't blank and white. Nationalism has everything to do with it. Nationalism only lets you see this issue one way, with no exceptions.

I never said she had to stay, your going black and white again and making assumptions. If I don't agree with you, I have to be against you. What I did say is you can stop making these arguments and actually show sympathy for her situation. But since you really haven't, I doubt you really have any sympathy for issues in this situation whatsoever.

I'm not arguing for her or against her in this situation, just against those, like you who want to turn this into propaganda for their cause. If you really have any sympathy, you can keep your arguments for another thread.

[keltic 1]

We are not talking about murder, violence, or theft.

theft is taking something that is not rightly yours... she stole someones SS#... isnt that identity theft?

besides, how many crimes does it take to make a criminal?

[Dan J 277]

We are not talking about murder, violence, or theft.

theft is taking something that is not rightly yours... she stole someones SS#... isnt that identity theft?

besides, how many crimes does it take to make a criminal?

Again black and white, may take some time to understand what I am saying.

[Ban Hammer 14,602]

Sometimes a crime is just. The world isn't blank and white. Nationalism has everything to do with it. Nationalism only lets you see this issue one way, with no exceptions.

I never said she had to stay, your going black and white again and making assumptions. If I don't agree with you, I have to be against you. What I did say is you can stop making these arguments and actually show sympathy for her situation. But since you really haven't, I doubt you really have any sympathy for issues in this situation whatsoever.

I'm not arguing for her or against her in this situation, just against those, like you who want to turn this into propaganda for their cause. If you really have any sympathy, you can keep your arguments for another thread.

she'll find sympathy here.

We are not talking about murder, violence, or theft.

theft is taking something that is not rightly yours... she stole someones SS#... isnt that identity theft?

besides, how many crimes does it take to make a criminal?

Again black and white, may take some time to understand what I am saying.

and probably quite a few shots of alcohol too.

[keltic 1]

We are not talking about murder, violence, or theft.

theft is taking something that is not rightly yours... she stole someones SS#... isnt that identity theft?

besides, how many crimes does it take to make a criminal?

Again black and white, may take some time to understand what I am saying.

dont insult my intelligence with snarky remarks... i understand what you are saying... i just dont agree

while i think its right for her to have to face the consequences of her actions, i feel sympathy for her... i also feel sympathy for drug addicts, but think they should seek treatment and rehabilitate... i dont think i should enable them or coddle ppl who are doing the wrong thing... even in the world of shades of grey, there are also black and whites

[GaryC 7]

Sometimes a crime is just. The world isn't blank and white. Nationalism has everything to do with it. Nationalism only lets you see this issue one way, with no exceptions.

I never said she had to stay, your going black and white again and making assumptions. If I don't agree with you, I have to be against you. What I did say is you can stop making these arguments and actually show sympathy for her situation. But since you really haven't, I doubt you really have any sympathy for issues in this situation whatsoever.

I'm not arguing for her or against her in this situation, just against those, like you who want to turn this into propaganda for their cause. If you really have any sympathy, you can keep your arguments for another thread.

Oh really? And who decided what crimes are just and what crimes are not just? You? Her? We are a nation of laws. Disregard for those laws is not "just" as you put it. Just because you don't have respect for the law doesn't mean my motivation is nationalism. I have respect for the law and that is why I have no sympathy for HER. The true victim in this whole thing is the kid. His mother used him as an tool to break the law and try to get away with it. When she was caught she used him to garner sympathy from people like you in the hopes of gaining a reprieve. The mother is a true criminal in the real sense of the word and you have misguided sympathy for her.

[Dan J 277]

Sometimes a crime is just. The world isn't blank and white. Nationalism has everything to do with it. Nationalism only lets you see this issue one way, with no exceptions.

I never said she had to stay, your going black and white again and making assumptions. If I don't agree with you, I have to be against you. What I did say is you can stop making these arguments and actually show sympathy for her situation. But since you really haven't, I doubt you really have any sympathy for issues in this situation whatsoever.

I'm not arguing for her or against her in this situation, just against those, like you who want to turn this into propaganda for their cause. If you really have any sympathy, you can keep your arguments for another thread.

Oh really? And who decided what crimes are just and what crimes are not just? You? Her? We are a nation of laws. Disregard for those laws is not "just" as you put it. Just because you don't have respect for the law doesn't mean my motivation is nationalism. I have respect for the law and that is why I have no sympathy for HER. The true victim in this whole thing is the kid. His mother used him as an tool to break the law and try to get away with it. When she was caught she used him to garner sympathy from people like you in the hopes of gaining a reprieve. The mother is a true criminal in the real sense of the word and you have misguided sympathy for her.

Laws can change. Usually it takes enough people breaking the law to make that happen.

We broke the laws of england to become our own country. We broke the laws of segregation to bring equal rights to all. Are you saying that should have never happened. Because its always wrong to break the law?