Blacks in U.S. imprisoned at 5 times the rate of whites

[peejay 327]

I think socio-economic background is at least as strongly correlated, if not more so, than race when it comes to criminality. The POOR are more likely to be incarcerated for sure, no matter what color they are.

So this thread brings us back to the original reason I posted this. Why are the Black incarceration rates higher predominately in Northern liberal Blue states whose Democratic politicians claim to be the saviors of the African-American population, poor folks, and their best interests? Myself...I don't have a clue. It's a mystery to me in light of the hype that gets pushed as common knowledge or is commonly perceived by stereotypical thinking. It seems that this angle is conveniently ignored in this case.

[NeverSeen 0]

Just curious?

If slavery didn't exsist where would they be now? Dying of AIDs and malnutrition in Africa?

[Scott & Lai 12]

Just curious?

If slavery didn't exsist where would they be now? Dying of AIDs and malnutrition in Africa?

That's one of those questions you're not supposed to ask

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think socio-economic background is at least as strongly correlated, if not more so, than race when it comes to criminality. The POOR are more likely to be incarcerated for sure, no matter what color they are.

So this thread brings us back to the original reason I posted this. Why are the Black incarceration rates higher predominately in Northern liberal Blue states whose Democratic politicians claim to be the saviors of the African-American population, poor folks, and their best interests? Myself...I don't have a clue. It's a mystery to me in light of the hype that gets pushed as common knowledge or is commonly perceived by stereotypical thinking. It seems that this angle is conveniently ignored in this case.

from Sean Gonsalves...

Joe Black says that lack of real economic opportunity, especially in a consumer culture, is one major factor in explaining why a disproportionate number of black men are in prison for "street crimes."

Therefore, Joe Black suggests, if we as a society are interested in transforming that situation, we ought to be committed to creating in black communities, at the very least, dignified living-wage employment and the infrastructure needed for any community to thrive; not just survive.

Joe White says: "Man, you're just making excuses for black criminals. They have to take responsibility for their own lives. I have no sympathy for them or this victim-culture."

See, right there. Joe White is responding as if social analysis and "making excuses" is synonymous. The economic conditions strangling many black communities does not "excuse" black criminal behavior. But it does aid and abet the incarceration of an alarming number of poor blacks.

But don't blacks commit more crime? Well, in California, felony arrests for black and brown youth have declined by a third since the 1970s, while the rate for white adults over 30 has increased 171 percent.

Nationally, whites commit about 56 percent of all violent crime, the Justice Department reports. Whites are twice as likely as blacks to be involved in child sexual molestation and are also more than twice as likely as black youth to kill their own parents, according to Howard Snyder and Melissa Sickmund's 1999 National Report for the National Center for Juvenile Justice.

Whites are nearly twice as likely to drive drunk and more likely to bring a weapon to school with them than are black males, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's "2000 Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Survey Summary."

These well-documented but infrequently discussed statistics pull back the veil of white myth that shrouds black America. But one must look deeper to see the hidden reality of how ("serious") crime is self-servingly defined by a mostly white overclass.

Do blacks commit more crime? The Nashville-based (white) antiracist activist, writer and lecturer Tim Wise has an interesting answer. "Well yes, if by 'crime' you mean the traditional interpretation of the term: violence or property offenses committed on the street or in the home, which are punished as crimes in the justice system," he writes.

"Since these kind of offenses are highly correlated with low socioeconomic status, there will be a higher rate of offending in communities of color, which thanks to the interplay of race and economic marginalization will tend to be poorer," Wise observes.

"Then again, if we thought of crimes as any behaviors that result in the unnecessary deaths, injury or illness (like the manufacturing of tobacco and numerous faulty consumer products, as well as corporate pollution, which contributes to occupational disease and death at three times the rate of homicides), then the answer would be no. But we don't think of it that way, so we stay focused on the violence of the dark and poor, over that of the white and wealthy," Wise continues.

Sean Gonsalves is a Cape Cod Times staff writer and syndicated columinist. He can be reached via email: sgonsalves@capecodonline.com

Edited July 20, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Plus 'assuming' that every slave was treated poorly and without dignity.

Yeah, because there's so much dignity in treating a man like chattel.

[Jenn! 918]

Just curious?

If slavery didn't exsist where would they be now? Dying of AIDs and malnutrition in Africa?

Actually, they would be dead.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Just curious?

If slavery didn't exsist where would they be now? Dying of AIDs and malnutrition in Africa?

Wherever they'd be, whatever they'd be - it'd be their own fault.

With things as they stand now, it's the white mans fault.

Just curious?

If slavery didn't exsist where would they be now? Dying of AIDs and malnutrition in Africa?

Actually, they would be dead.

Old age is a killer.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Many, on the sea voyages back and forth. Thrown off if they fell sick or if the ship just needed to lose weight. Many more once in the States, if they were weak or otherwise unproductive.

Read up on it, the history of that era is tragic.

What about the fact that many slaves where actually sold by their own people in Africa.

Not 'exactly' their own people was it... Powerful tribes selling the captives of defeated rivals for profit.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Many, on the sea voyages back and forth. Thrown off if they fell sick or if the ship just needed to lose weight. Many more once in the States, if they were weak or otherwise unproductive.

Read up on it, the history of that era is tragic.

What about the fact that many slaves where actually sold by their own people in Africa.

Not 'exactly' their own people was it... Powerful tribes selling the captives of defeated rivals for profit.

Even if it was their own people, so what? It's their bad and it's our bad. Not like American/European complicity in the crime lessens by the fact that they had African accomplices.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Plus 'assuming' that every slave was treated poorly and without dignity.

Whether or not a person gets tied out in the sun, or lashed red-raw with a bamboo cane, 'slave' is a status designation that removes the basic human rights from a person. You can't relativise that treatment by saying that 'some' were treated better than others. Some were - but its not like a slave could expect humane treatment, or that it didn't rely fundamentally on the goodwill of the 'owner'.

Edited July 20, 2007 by Number 6

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

A slave was a good. A good that was sold in the Wal Marts of that time. You had various qualities of the product and they went for different prices. When a dealer couldn't move his inventory after a while, he would put it on sale. It was kind of like selling a toaster or a flat screen TV today.

Except it was a person.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Many, on the sea voyages back and forth. Thrown off if they fell sick or if the ship just needed to lose weight. Many more once in the States, if they were weak or otherwise unproductive.

Read up on it, the history of that era is tragic.

What about the fact that many slaves where actually sold by their own people in Africa.

Not 'exactly' their own people was it... Powerful tribes selling the captives of defeated rivals for profit.

Even if it was their own people, so what? It's their bad and it's our bad. Not like American/European complicity in the crime lessens by the fact that they had African accomplices.

Certainly not. And as I said of that previous post - its not hard to see statements like that as racist. Soon the "they've been that way for 5000 years" will be trotted out - as though that empty statement somehow justifies the bloody history that followed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A slave was a good. A good that was sold in the Wal Marts of that time. You had various qualities of the product and they went for different prices. When a dealer couldn't move his inventory after a while, he would put it on sale. It was kind of like selling a toaster or a flat screen TV today.

Except it was a person.

Except back when people were doing that sort of thing, they were measuring skulls to prove (by dubious means) that those people were inferior and subhuman, thereby justifying their treatment as 'cattle'.

Even used parts of the bible to justify it - that old story about the sons of Noah (Ham, Japheth and Shem) which basically justifies the racial superiority of certain races. In the story Ham (forefather of African peoples) is cursed by his father to be the "servant of servants".

Edited July 20, 2007 by Number 6

[peejay 327]

I think socio-economic background is at least as strongly correlated, if not more so, than race when it comes to criminality. The POOR are more likely to be incarcerated for sure, no matter what color they are.

So this thread brings us back to the original reason I posted this. Why are the Black incarceration rates higher predominately in Northern liberal Blue states whose Democratic politicians claim to be the saviors of the African-American population, poor folks, and their best interests? Myself...I don't have a clue. It's a mystery to me in light of the hype that gets pushed as common knowledge or is commonly perceived by stereotypical thinking. It seems that this angle is conveniently ignored in this case.

from Sean Gonsalves...

Joe Black says that lack of real economic opportunity, especially in a consumer culture, is one major factor in explaining why a disproportionate number of black men are in prison for "street crimes."

Therefore, Joe Black suggests, if we as a society are interested in transforming that situation, we ought to be committed to creating in black communities, at the very least, dignified living-wage employment and the infrastructure needed for any community to thrive; not just survive.

Joe White says: "Man, you're just making excuses for black criminals. They have to take responsibility for their own lives. I have no sympathy for them or this victim-culture."

See, right there. Joe White is responding as if social analysis and "making excuses" is synonymous. The economic conditions strangling many black communities does not "excuse" black criminal behavior. But it does aid and abet the incarceration of an alarming number of poor blacks.

But don't blacks commit more crime? Well, in California, felony arrests for black and brown youth have declined by a third since the 1970s, while the rate for white adults over 30 has increased 171 percent.

Nationally, whites commit about 56 percent of all violent crime, the Justice Department reports. Whites are twice as likely as blacks to be involved in child sexual molestation and are also more than twice as likely as black youth to kill their own parents, according to Howard Snyder and Melissa Sickmund's 1999 National Report for the National Center for Juvenile Justice.

Whites are nearly twice as likely to drive drunk and more likely to bring a weapon to school with them than are black males, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's "2000 Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Survey Summary."

These well-documented but infrequently discussed statistics pull back the veil of white myth that shrouds black America. But one must look deeper to see the hidden reality of how ("serious") crime is self-servingly defined by a mostly white overclass.

Do blacks commit more crime? The Nashville-based (white) antiracist activist, writer and lecturer Tim Wise has an interesting answer. "Well yes, if by 'crime' you mean the traditional interpretation of the term: violence or property offenses committed on the street or in the home, which are punished as crimes in the justice system," he writes.

"Since these kind of offenses are highly correlated with low socioeconomic status, there will be a higher rate of offending in communities of color, which thanks to the interplay of race and economic marginalization will tend to be poorer," Wise observes.

"Then again, if we thought of crimes as any behaviors that result in the unnecessary deaths, injury or illness (like the manufacturing of tobacco and numerous faulty consumer products, as well as corporate pollution, which contributes to occupational disease and death at three times the rate of homicides), then the answer would be no. But we don't think of it that way, so we stay focused on the violence of the dark and poor, over that of the white and wealthy," Wise continues.

Sean Gonsalves is a Cape Cod Times staff writer and syndicated columinist. He can be reached via email: sgonsalves@capecodonline.com

Lots of words...but where is the math to back it up. Words can be skewed and twisted to give all sorts of impressions, perceptions, and deceptions. Math is a science of logic and precise measurement of the facts.

If we follow the insinuation of this article we must conclude that Whites commit more crimes, but there are more more Blacks in jail (for whatever reason). So you are saying that Whites are not serving jail time for commiting crimes? They are gettin' away with murder while Blacks are doin' time for the same offenses?

I ain't buying it...prove it with hard facts and numbers. Are you talking percentages or raw total numbers? How about incarceration rates for similar offenses as represented by the per capita racial representation in the general population?

Do you honestly believe that most Whites (or Blacks for that matter) let criminals of their own race off the hook just to be a "Brutha"? That's pretty lame.

Give us a rundown of various offenses and the racial makeup of of people serving time for those offences in a geographic area and compare that to the general population in that geographic area. Then we might be on the trail to the truth. Once we learn the truth we might be able to begin to investigate root causes. Numbers don't lie like words do.

Edited July 20, 2007 by peejay

[pedroh 21]

Plus 'assuming' that every slave was treated poorly and without dignity.

Yeah, because there's so much dignity in treating a man like chattel.

LOL OMG

there's no such thing as a 'slave with dignity'...