Blackwater video

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its not the same argument at all. I'm talking about soldiers that aren't American, who are getting paid from America, but also other people. Americans with the UN still get paid by the US. They still come from the US, and their loyalty is still to the US. Mercenaries have a long long history of not caring about any of that.

Makes you wonder how the govt can employ these people - surely they must take on trust that the hiring procedures are suitably stringent to not question it; but that seems very shaky to me.

How do we know what background these people have, what crimes they have committed - what theaters of war they've been involved in. Its very cloak and dagger.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Generally, thats true. US 'contractors' in, say, Japan, would be prosecuted for committing crimes. But in Iraq the CPA has declared that they are in Iraq and America can't try them, and also that they are America, so Iraq can't try them.

That still has me wondering about who has juridictional authority over these guys - as far as investigating alleged abuses. The commander of Abu Ghraib was pretty specific that interrogations were conducted by PMC 'specialists' - yet rank and file troops who committed prisoner abuses were jailed. I wonder whether this has happened to any of these private guys - certainly nothing I've seen on the news would seem to indicate that this has happened.

[Portlander 0]

How do we know what background these people have,

Many of them are not American at all. We don't know, and the mercenary groups and the neocons don't really care, so long as the job gets done. Thats the thing. Morality has absolutely nothing to do with it. America's "reuptation" has absolutely nothing to do with it. Their "American" only insofar as America has hired them to do a particular job.

Incidentally, another 800 American "contractors" have died in Iraq ... at least their families have filed for death benefits. They get death benefits from the US gov't, but aren't soldiers. Meanwhile, true American soldiers are getting mistreated and their benefits revoked.

Its scandalous. Spitting on soldiers is one thing. Taking their pensions away and giving them bad medical care is something else altogether. They are crying "support the troops" when they really mean "support the large multinational coorporations"

[sara535 15]

there has actually been quite a bit of press on these companies, particularly blackwater (which, incidentally, is a sub-contractor of Cheney's buddies KBR)... I think CNN has covered it and someone like 60 minutes tried to do an expose.

as for who's jurisdiction they are under, there was an interesting bit on NPR just this morning about it, let me see if I can find a link....

aah here we go:

military contractors from NPR's Morning Edition

Everything about this whole phenomenon is pretty disturbing.

[Portlander 0]

I've heard it mentioned before, and talked about before, but nothing that goes into the neocon policy papers regarding it. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitx et al are all on paper wanting a major permanent ground force of US troops in the Middle East, with Iraq being a good beachhead, but not stopping there, for over 10 years now.

For example, the story you are referring to

Morning Edition, June 25, 2007 · The use of private contractors in conflict zones like Iraq and Afghanistan has hit unprecedented levels. A civilian force of more than 120,000 people is in Iraq. But as the private contracting industry has exploded in the past few years, there has been little oversight.

"Civillian contractors" gets used repeatedly while the word military doesn't get mentioned. No mention of the Blackwater bases 1 mile from the Iranian border, and no mention of the Iran-Contra redeux going on where BushCo is illegally funding covert ops in Iran, and has been for a few years now. Reminder about Iran-Contra: Bush Sr. illegally sold weapons and plane parts to Iran and used the profits to fund ultra-right wing paramilitary group that, among other things, repeatedly killing American citizens, including several nuns and priests. This was in secret and against the explicit wishes of the US Congress. This began right after Iran stormed the US Embassy and took hostages. BushCo is now laundering money through arm sales to fund covert actions in iran.

The problem in the article is only with oversight. Granted, this is a problem, but the real problem is a lot bigger.

No mention of Blackwater and other "contractor" groups hiring non-Americans (That would have been an important point in the context of the story!) the number of countries they are in, the kinds of they do ... i.e. the kinds of things mercenaries have been hired to do for thousands of years. None of that.

Nothing about Bush's explicit plans to privitize the military, and nothing about hiring non-Americans to carry out US military goals.

*EDIT*

Military Contractors Getting Closer to the Action

by Steve Inskeep

This one does bring up some of these issues, and does talk about contractors not being liable, and how they are mostly hired by coorporations, and how it changes the balance of power, and also about rogue mercenaries. So thats one artice... back in 2003 ...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Considering that there are genuine "Civilian Contractors" in Iraq working on the reconstruction of the country's infrastructure - grouping mercenaries into that definition is a stretch at best, but not really all that surprising. The terminology is much more PC than what it actually is.

[Portlander 0]

What is there to be PC about? Mercenaries don't want to be called mercenaries? Can we call them Goodwill Ambassadors instead? Really, the words used by the press to refer to things is tightly controlled. Can you find any new articles from any major media that uses the word "mercenaries"?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What is there to be PC about? Mercenaries don't want to be called mercenaries? Can we call them Goodwill Ambassadors instead? Really, the words used by the press to refer to things is tightly controlled. Can you find any new articles from any major media that uses the word "mercenaries"?

Its a negative term with negative connotations - so naturally they don't use it; and so describe themselves as 'contractors' rather than 'hired killers'.

[Ban Hammer 15,183]

What is there to be PC about? Mercenaries don't want to be called mercenaries? Can we call them Goodwill Ambassadors instead? Really, the words used by the press to refer to things is tightly controlled. Can you find any new articles from any major media that uses the word "mercenaries"?

Its a negative term with negative connotations - so naturally they don't use it; and so describe themselves as 'contractors' rather than 'hired killers'.

gee, i'm a military contractor. i didn't know i was a mercenary

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What is there to be PC about? Mercenaries don't want to be called mercenaries? Can we call them Goodwill Ambassadors instead? Really, the words used by the press to refer to things is tightly controlled. Can you find any new articles from any major media that uses the word "mercenaries"?

Its a negative term with negative connotations - so naturally they don't use it; and so describe themselves as 'contractors' rather than 'hired killers'.

gee, i'm a military contractor. i didn't know i was a mercenary

But mercenaries are counted among military contractors. No?

[Portlander 0]

gee, i'm a military contractor. i didn't know i was a mercenary

If you didn't know you were a merenary then you aren't. What job do you do? Who do you work for? The topic is about businessses that provide armed support to people who pay them. The guys that are hired to use their guns. That is Blackwater, Executive Action and others. This is not Halliburton, although they are considered "civillian contractors" as well.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

gee, i'm a military contractor. i didn't know i was a mercenary

If you didn't know you were a merenary then you aren't. What job do you do? Who do you work for? The topic is about businessses that provide armed support to people who pay them. The guys that are hired to use their guns. That is Blackwater, Executive Action and others. This is not Halliburton, although they are considered "civillian contractors" as well.

In this context mercenaries being officially dubbed "Contractors" is a bit of a euphemism - including as it does numerous people who are engaged in a wide range of innocuous or (in this context) sinister activities.

But certainly a person would be hard-pressed to not know whether they are a mercenary - Charles is just being bloody minded

Question: Do you get paid by a private agency to provide armed military support to a government or company who contracts your company's services?

If Yes - you are a mercenary.

If No - you are not.