TX Gov. Perry: Allow concealed handguns everywhere.

[Otto 83]

What's wrong with allowing someone to defend themselves?

I guess it really depends on what you see as a threat and how likely you consider yourself to be a victim of crime.

Well why don't you share what you see as a threat and how likely you consider yourself (or loved one) to be a victim of crime erekose?

How would I do that? I've not been the victim of a violent crime in the various countries I've lived in. The wife (USC) hasn't either. So no I don't consider myself "at risk". But even if I did - it would imply (at least to my thinking) living in constant fear of attack.

Well, you're at risk of getting a flat tire, and probably carry a spare and a jack (etc), are you constantly in fear of getting a flat?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What's wrong with allowing someone to defend themselves?

I guess it really depends on what you see as a threat and how likely you consider yourself to be a victim of crime.

Well why don't you share what you see as a threat and how likely you consider yourself (or loved one) to be a victim of crime erekose?

How would I do that? I've not been the victim of a violent crime in the various countries I've lived in. The wife (USC) hasn't either. So no I don't consider myself "at risk". But even if I did - it would imply (at least to my thinking) living in constant fear of attack.

Well, you're at risk of getting a flat tire, and probably carry a spare and a jack (etc), are you constantly in fear of getting a flat?

Battle of the pointless analogies eh? Nope I'm not in 'fear' of getting a flat. But then again I don't see a firearm as a necessity for dealing with everyday life.

There should be a national law that every man, woman and child be wrapped with explosives, so if anyone attacks us or tries to kidnap us, all we have to do is go kaboom. That would be quite a deterrent.

Dead man's handle. I thought of that - but I wouldn't want to be near the guy who has the heart attack in a crowded shopping mall. Imagine the domino effect

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

If I get a flat, a spare and a jack will get me home.

If I'm the target of an attempted carjacking, a gun may get me home or it may escalate the issue and get me killed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Seems to me that any proliferation legislation off the back of the VA Tech massacre is politically motivated and suspicious. The random madman like Cho isn't the cause of the majority of gun related crime - most of which is of the "organised" variety and/or is related to drugs.

[Otto 83]

What's wrong with allowing someone to defend themselves?

I guess it really depends on what you see as a threat and how likely you consider yourself to be a victim of crime.

Well why don't you share what you see as a threat and how likely you consider yourself (or loved one) to be a victim of crime erekose?

How would I do that? I've not been the victim of a violent crime in the various countries I've lived in. The wife (USC) hasn't either. So no I don't consider myself "at risk". But even if I did - it would imply (at least to my thinking) living in constant fear of attack.

Well, you're at risk of getting a flat tire, and probably carry a spare and a jack (etc), are you constantly in fear of getting a flat?

Battle of the pointless analogies eh? Nope I'm not in 'fear' of getting a flat. But then again I don't see a firearm as a necessity for dealing with everyday life.

It's not a battle... I'm glad you don't feel at risk and hope you never are - or for that matter myself or anyone I care about either.

[homesick_american 1]

He (Perry) says something smart now and then...

Not very often though. Kinky would have been and is better than Perry ever will be. Maybe next go around?

i 100% agree..kinky is the man...i wished i lived in texas, so i could have voted for him

I got to vote for Ann Richards in 1994. Unfortunately she lost. It was too bad...she RAWKED. RIP.

[homesick_american 1]

Yeah, school campuses, malls, courthouses, police stations, etc. What a stupid idea.

Not such a stupid idea - several years ago a maniac rammed his truck into a restaurant, got out shooting and killed 21 (I believe) people - at least three patrons inside at the time held concealed weapon permits but because the establishment didn't permit handguns - they were powerless to stop the killing because their weapons were outside in their cars... it's not stupid if you or someone you love is in harm's way..

That was Luby's, Killeen, 1991...about half my lifetime ago.

Nobody in that restaurant held a concealed carry permit because they didn't come in until 1995, four years after the Killeen massacre...which was used as justification for the law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre

If we're gonna argue for a crazy law, let's at least get our facts straight!

[yogib37 3]

He (Perry) says something smart now and then...

Not very often though. Kinky would have been and is better than Perry ever will be. Maybe next go around?

i 100% agree..kinky is the man...i wished i lived in texas, so i could have voted for him

when I lived in Texas, I never voted for Perry. Never. I never voted for that slickster sen. John Cornyn.

So it is not my fault you have a NRA gun slinging gov in Texas..

[Ban Hammer 14,271]

I'm not sure I've suggested anything to that effect. I think the broad availability of firearms is a big part of the national problem. Whether or not people carrying the guns are law abiding or not is irrelevant.

really now? so people who are law abiding are lumped in with criminals in your eyes now?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm not sure I've suggested anything to that effect. I think the broad availability of firearms is a big part of the national problem. Whether or not people carrying the guns are law abiding or not is irrelevant.

really now? so people who are law abiding are lumped in with criminals in your eyes now?

That's not what I'm saying. Its simply not very easy to tell who is a 'law abiding citizen' and who isn't.

[Ban Hammer 14,271]

I'm not sure I've suggested anything to that effect. I think the broad availability of firearms is a big part of the national problem. Whether or not people carrying the guns are law abiding or not is irrelevant.

really now? so people who are law abiding are lumped in with criminals in your eyes now?

That's not what I'm saying. Its simply not very easy to tell who is a 'law abiding citizen' and who isn't.

here's a hint - the law abiding citizen is the one with the cch. the one without it and carrying concealed is the criminal.

[homesick_american 1]

I'm not sure I've suggested anything to that effect. I think the broad availability of firearms is a big part of the national problem. Whether or not people carrying the guns are law abiding or not is irrelevant.

really now? so people who are law abiding are lumped in with criminals in your eyes now?

That's not what I'm saying. Its simply not very easy to tell who is a 'law abiding citizen' and who isn't.

If you look at concealed carry permit holders in TX, they are convicted of violent crimes at a rate far less than that of the general population. Whether you agree with the permits or not, you can't really argue those stats.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm not sure I've suggested anything to that effect. I think the broad availability of firearms is a big part of the national problem. Whether or not people carrying the guns are law abiding or not is irrelevant.

really now? so people who are law abiding are lumped in with criminals in your eyes now?

That's not what I'm saying. Its simply not very easy to tell who is a 'law abiding citizen' and who isn't.

If you look at concealed carry permit holders in TX, they are convicted of violent crimes at a rate far less than that of the general population. Whether you agree with the permits or not, you can't really argue those stats.

Not arguing them - I just don't believe that the average person has any need to carry a gun.

As it pertains to things like schools & college campuses - the carrying of a firearm should be the exception rather than the rule. Seems fairly obvious to me - if it becomes commonplace to carry a gun, then it will also be commonplace not to question it.

Similarly the governor's statement about carrying in bars seems ludicrous to me, while not touching the issue that facilitated the VA Tech massacre. That's really the issue that needs to be addressed - the willingness of different agencies to talk to one another and for a person's mental health to factor more directly into ownership applications.

[homesick_american 1]

Not arguing them - I just don't believe that the average person has any need to carry a gun.

I'm no longer prepared to battle the second amendment (it's a waste of time) but I've never felt the need to arm myself. I doubt I'll ever own a gun.

As it pertains to things like schools & college campuses - the carrying of a firearm should be the exception rather than the rule. Seems fairly obvious to me - if it becomes commonplace to carry a gun, then it will also be commonplace not to question it.

It wasn't that commonplace in TX when I left, even tho concealed carry had been law for 6 years. You could usually tell which men were packing by the way their clothes fell on them, and the women who packed were usually excruciatingly careful with their handbags, i.e. they were afraid if they dropped their bag or set it down hard, the gun would go off. Personally I think it's stupid to go everywhere cocked and locked, but that's just me. I never felt scared of the armed people around me, because people with permits are so law and order that they're much less likely than the average person to cause any trouble. It's the people without permits who scare me.

Similarly the governor's statement about carrying in bars seems ludicrous to me, while not touching the issue that facilitated the VA Tech massacre. That's really the issue that needs to be addressed - the willingness of different agencies to talk to one another and for a person's mental health to factor more directly into ownership applications.

I think if his mental health history had been part of the BG check he wouldn't have gotten the guns the way he did, but there are ways around that. There's no guarantee that the massacre would have been prevented even with tougher background checks due to private seller loopholes and the endless supply of illegal, black-market firearms in the US. If you are really motivated you can go out and buy a gun with less hassle than you could a bottle of vodka. There needs to be tighter regulation, definitely. I'd rather that the sea of guns didn't exist than feel like I have to arm myself to protect myself and my family from the baddies.

[slim 1,533]

Yeah, school campuses, malls, courthouses, police stations, etc. What a stupid idea.

Not such a stupid idea - several years ago a maniac rammed his truck into a restaurant, got out shooting and killed 21 (I believe) people - at least three patrons inside at the time held concealed weapon permits but because the establishment didn't permit handguns - they were powerless to stop the killing because their weapons were outside in their cars... it's not stupid if you or someone you love is in harm's way..

How about we take the gun away from the maniac instead?

How is that possible?

Yeah, school campuses, malls, courthouses, police stations, etc. What a stupid idea.

Not such a stupid idea - several years ago a maniac rammed his truck into a restaurant, got out shooting and killed 21 (I believe) people - at least three patrons inside at the time held concealed weapon permits but because the establishment didn't permit handguns - they were powerless to stop the killing because their weapons were outside in their cars... it's not stupid if you or someone you love is in harm's way..

I have to say that as cynical as I might be - I can't imagine that what you just described constitutes a typical "Texas experience", and you're probably far far more likely to be hit by a truck crossing the street than you are to be gunned down by a maniac who just rammed his car through a restaurant. Seems to me more ought to be done about relatively predictable (and prolific) causes of death, rather than spending all this time and effort 'arming up' to deal with weird off-the-wall stuff.

yeah yeah, we know your thoughts on concealed carry. and i've yet to see anyone post any statistics showing those with concealed carry permits are reckless and commit crimes.

I'm not sure I've suggested anything to that effect. I think the broad availability of firearms is a big part of the national problem. Whether or not people carrying the guns are law abiding or not is irrelevant.

It is relevant. Those who carry guns legally are held to a high standard whenever they're used. Additionally, those who are permitted to carry guns concealed, are trained in the appropriate ways to use them, and more importantly, when to use them.

What a lot of people fail to realize is that concealed carry or any other kind of "gun permits" are not a license to shoot people or "enforce the law." They are simply a legal way to ensure the person carrying the gun is "certified" in how and when to use it. If anything, anti-gunners should be cheering CCH or CCW permits. It doesn't equal more guns in people's hands, it equals more guns in "certified" people's hands. If people are "certified" to use something, the use of that something is no more dangerous at a school or shopping mall than it is anywhere else.

I simply do not understand why people are afraid of having someone who is "legally certified" to carry a weapon around when there is always the possibility there are "uncertified" wackos out there carrying weapons around.

Edited May 2, 2007 by slim