Three burglars enter home, son shoots them all dead with AR-15 assault rifle

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

24 minutes ago, bcking said:

Size of the bullet is not the only contributing factor. I admit i know very little about guns, and luckily haven't had any interactions with GSWs since medical school (my residency was in an area with relatively low gun violence, and pediatric GSWs are far less common thankfully. Now i work in neonates so it is even less likely).

 

I would imagine rate of fire, velocity of fire, clip size, recoil could also impact someone's ability to survive. 

 

I feel like a broken record with certain people but... Things aren't black and white. The world is full of nuance if you are willing and able to see it.

Thank you lets move on 

[bcking 3,157]

12 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Thank you lets move on 

Am I wrong in stating that the size of the bullet is not the only contributing factor to lethality? If I am, please explain. I'd love to learn.

[Eric-Pris 1,607]

56 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Well if a hand gun will do the same exact job as an a So called assault rifle, then why do you have a problem with them having an  rifle. 

Is this some kind of gun-craze, nonsensical, reverse logic?  To answer your question... because one is a handgun and the other looks like a machine gun that should be in the hands of a soldier (at war).

[Eric-Pris 1,607]

36 minutes ago, SRVT said:

Well then, it's easy, don't have what you call an "assault weapon" in your home. No one will mind.

 

However, what other people have in their home really isn't your business.

I don't and nobody else should either.  Those things should be outlawed for non-military use.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 minutes ago, Eric-Pris said:

Is this some kind of gun-craze, nonsensical, reverse logic?  To answer your question... because one is a handgun and the other looks like a machine gun that should be in the hands of a soldier (at war).

At least your honest .. 

[bcking 3,157]

Did a quick search. Looks like the AR-15 bullet velocity is estimated at ~975 m/sec, compared to a 9mm pistol which comes in at ~350 m/sec.

 

Considering the energy delivered from the shot squares the velocity, before halving both velocity and mass (1/2mv^2), it seems quite logical that an AR-15's bullet is delivering far more energy to the body. If they weighed the same the AR-15 would be delivering 9x more energy. The pistol bullet weighing slightly more than double does not make up for that.

 

That energy in turn allows it to penetrate more deeply (or go through), as well as increase the damage it does to surrounding tissue.

 

Of course if we were thinking about what truly makes a bullet lethal I would say where you aim is more important that what gun you are using (A pistol hitting your femoral vein or jugular vein would obviously do far more than AR-15 shot to your arm). However, if the pistol and AR-15 hit the same places, the AR-15 has the capability of doing far more damage. In some places it wouldn't make a difference, in others it definitely would. I'm no surgeon but the laws of physics would suggest that an abdominal wound from the AR-15 bullet would produce far more damage than a pistol. 

 

EDIT: This is only taking into account the bullet's potential energy. I would also argue (again based on only limited knowledge of firearms) that an AR-15 has other advantages. There were 3 assailants, so having 30 rounds in a clip would have also increased the defenders "lethality" because he had more room for error without having to reload. We could also argue about accuracy as well (assuming he was using the AR-15 properly and not hip firing).

Edited April 3, 2017 by bcking

[IAMX 3,055]

16 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

At least your honest .. 

.. in showing how little about guns he knows. 

 

"Bad looking gun, ban it!"

 

Nah, no thanks.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

15 minutes ago, SRVT said:

.. in showing how little about guns he knows. 

 

"Bad looking gun, ban it!"

 

Nah, no thanks.

Its really just amazing isnt it 

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Its really just amazing isnt it 

As usual i have responded to you providing objective information. Instead of glossing over it and only finding people and comments you can belittle, could you please try providing some semblance of a response?

 

I mentioned bullet velocity and its effect on the delivered KE from the bullet, and the impact that can have on lethality. There are certainly counter arguements to that, just waiting for you to bring them up.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

28 minutes ago, bcking said:

As usual i have responded to you providing objective information. Instead of glossing over it and only finding people and comments you can belittle, could you please try providing some semblance of a response?

 

I mentioned bullet velocity and its effect on the delivered KE from the bullet, and the impact that can have on lethality. There are certainly counter arguements to that, just waiting for you to bring them up.

what up 

[bcking 3,157]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

what up 

The crickets seem to continue. Very typical. You respond quite easily when it is an insult and/or some vague comment about how wrong someone else is without giving specifics.

 

I responded to your "O M G you are crazy for suggesting that" response by giving objective data and discussing bullet physics. I'm waiting for something close to an educated response. AR-15 velocity is 3 times that of a pistol, and velocity is squared when calculating potential energy. That means the AR-15 bullet would have 9 times more energy based on it's velocity. The increase in mass of the pistol's bullet wouldn't make up for that. 

 

That is only ONE additional factor in the "lethality" of the weapon other than the size of the bullet. You seemed to think it was all dependent on the size of the bullet. So now I'm waiting for you to actually provide a response with content.

 

Even I have reasonable counter arguments that I could give against my own argument because, gasp here it comes again, nothing is black and white and there are nuances and so a discussion of the lethality of one weapon vs another is not an "Oh wow you are an idiot" type of discussion. We could actually debate it if you wanted to give me some content. I'm waiting for your response since you seem an expert on the topic. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

6 minutes ago, bcking said:

The crickets seem to continue. Very typical. You respond quite easily when it is an insult and/or some vague comment about how wrong someone else is without giving specifics.

 

I responded to your "O M G you are crazy for suggesting that" response by giving objective data and discussing bullet physics. I'm waiting for something close to an educated response. AR-15 velocity is 3 times that of a pistol, and velocity is squared when calculating potential energy. That means the AR-15 bullet would have 9 times more energy based on it's velocity. The increase in mass of the pistol's bullet wouldn't make up for that. 

 

That is only ONE additional factor in the "lethality" of the weapon other than the size of the bullet. You seemed to think it was all dependent on the size of the bullet. So now I'm waiting for you to actually provide a response with content.

 

Even I have reasonable counter arguments that I could give against my own argument because, gasp here it comes again, nothing is black and white and there are nuances and so a discussion of the lethality of one weapon vs another is not an "Oh wow you are an idiot" type of discussion. We could actually debate it if you wanted to give me some content. I'm waiting for your response since you seem an expert on the topic. 

I never called you an idiot nor would I. I just said you suggesting that getting shot with a pistol rather than an assault looking would increase odds of survival, and there by suggesting the man being attacked should not have used an AR was ludicrous 

 

I dont really think googling a bunch of information and plastering back and forth to try to look intelligent  is a conversation.

 

P.S. I dont believe for  a second you are a doctor.  Having grown up in a family of doctors. Just my humble opinion. You probably dont believe  I am pro wrestler either 

[bcking 3,157]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I never called you an idiot nor would I. I just said you suggesting that getting shot with a pistol rather than an assault looking would increase odds of survival, and there by suggesting the man being attacked should not have used an AR was ludicrous 

 

I dont really think googling a bunch of information and plastering back and forth to try to look intelligent  is a conversation.

 

P.S. I dont believe for  a second you are a doctor.  Having grown up in a family of doctors. Just my humble opinion. You probably dont believe  I am pro wrestler either 

I could PM your my a photo of my medical school diploma, or my board certification, or my ID with the AAP if you'd like? Not sure how I would benefit from lying about what I do here. I have nothing to hide and I quite frequently admit when I'm not an expert in an area. Alternatively, you'd like we can talk about chronic lung disease, retinopathy of prematurity, or any number of things I deal with on a daily basis.

 

I'm looking for a discussion on the lethality of two different weapons. That discussion, if handled effectively, would include issues including mass of the ammo, shape of the ammo, velocity of the rounds, rate of fire, recoil, distance, location of entry wound. The responses I got only mentioned bullet size, so now I'm bringing up that it is far more complicated than that.

Edited April 3, 2017 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

11 minutes ago, bcking said:

I could PM your my a photo of my medical school diploma, or my board certification, or my ID with the AAP if you'd like? Not sure how I would benefit from lying about what I do here. I have nothing to hide and I quite frequently admit when I'm not an expert in an area. Alternatively, you'd like we can talk about chronic lung disease, retinopathy of prematurity, or any number of things I deal with on a daily basis.

 

I'm looking for a discussion on the lethality of two different weapons. That discussion, if handled effectively, would include issues including mass of the ammo, shape of the ammo, velocity of the rounds, rate of fire, recoil, distance, location of entry wound. The responses I got only mentioned bullet size, so now I'm bringing up that it is far more complicated than that.

Do you deal with patients with extreme bordam . Our conversation here drifted to is Doris Day still living

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Do you deal with patients with extreme bordam . Our conversation here drifted to is Doris Day still living

*Boredom

 

My patients are babies so I couldn't say if they are bored or not. They mostly sleep or eat.

 

(You're continuing to deflect from the actual content)

 

Honestly I try to be friendly and have good conversations with you. However the way you respond to me and others tends to be focused very much on the negative. You avoid providing actual content, and instead just make short "one liners" to avoid responding with objective information. I will gladly admit when I'm wrong, as I've done so before on here (Oriz should be able to attest to that). However I do generally like to discuss issues more in depth and not take any one person's word for anything. I also tend to play "devil's advocate" because, unfortunately, I do like to argue. I admitted I know nothing about firearms themselves, I do know a little about GSW's but I'm not a surgeon and I can count on one hand the number of cases I was involved in during med school (La Jolla also wasn't a very popular spot for GSW's, I remember when I interviewed at UCLA...I would have gotten a lot more first hand experience there). I brought up my opinion that a AR-15 would be easier to kill for a number of reasons (bullet velocity, penetration, rate of fire, less recoil, larger clip). If you'd like to argue otherwise please provide more than just "oh wow I can't even respond". 

Edited April 3, 2017 by bcking