Need Your Opinion, Pls

[MM_MS 0]

So, I'm on the phone yesterday talking with MS about my trip to Istanbul in July - where to buy the wedding rings, buying things we want for the house, maybe travel a bit.

Then he suggested that he come to San Francisco in July instead. I would LOVE that!

But I silently worried about the I-129F at CSC and the embassy in Istanbul and how blinkin' slow they are under the best of conditions. Perhaps applying for a Tourist Visa might muck things up good, and really slow down the K-1 approval.

I'm going nuts as it is - just waiting as everything moves along at it's normal lightning turtle pace.

Please advise! Thanks -

MM in San Francisco

MS in Istanbul

[Aniomaman 0]

So, I'm on the phone yesterday talking with MS about my trip to Istanbul in July - where to buy the wedding rings, buying things we want for the house, maybe travel a bit.

Then he suggested that he come to San Francisco in July instead. I would LOVE that!

But I silently worried about the I-129F at CSC and the embassy in Istanbul and how blinkin' slow they are under the best of conditions. Perhaps applying for a Tourist Visa might muck things up good, and really slow down the K-1 approval.

I'm going nuts as it is - just waiting as everything moves along at it's normal lightning turtle pace.

Please advise! Thanks -

MM in San Francisco

MS in Istanbul

Well since you have a K1 visa already with CSC, I would advice him not to make the trip or he might be sent back at POE, that's my 2cents there but I guess it would be better for you to visit him.

Cheers

[TracyTN 237]

No, the OP does not have the K1 visa yet. They are awaiting NOA2 from CSC - look at their timeline.

MM_MS - your fiance can surely visit here. Just be sure he can show substantial ties to home (a letter from employer expecting his return, letter from landlord, return ticket, etc) at the POE and when applying for the tourist visa.

I'm not sure of his chances in obtaining the tourist visa, so maybe pose the question in the regional discussion section of the site.

Edited March 30, 2007 by TracyTN

[Nanusia & Lukaszek 0]

Your fiance can definitely try for a tourist visa, but in Turkey, they are VERY VERY hard to get. Also, remember that if he does get denied, he'll have some explaining to do when it comes for the K-1 interview. Seriously, they'll say flat out "why were you trying to go to the US when you had a visa in process, couldn't you wait?" I know this from some VJers that told me their experiences.

I know that people here will tell you its ok to travel while the K-1 is being processed, and I think that's more true for countries with waivers that don't need visa's to get into the US.

[Andy 2]

Your fiance can definitely try for a tourist visa, but in Turkey, they are VERY VERY hard to get. Also, remember that if he does get denied, he'll have some explaining to do when it comes for the K-1 interview. Seriously, they'll say flat out "why were you trying to go to the US when you had a visa in process, couldn't you wait?" I know this from some VJers that told me their experiences.

I know that people here will tell you its ok to travel while the K-1 is being processed, and I think that's more true for countries with waivers that don't need visa's to get into the US.

It's true in almost all circumstances, not just for those able to use the VWP.

It's important to remember that tourist visas are processed by non-immigrant sections on consulates, while K-1 visas are processed by immigrant sections. That's not just a semantic issue, it's a structural one based on the purpose of the visa. As such, applying for and even being denied a B visa does not have any real bearing on an application for, and approval of, a K-1.

It is important to declare that a K-1 process is underway when making the application, and it's possible that as a result the consulate will have heightened suspicion that the applicant has immigrant intent, but if sufficient evidence of continuing ties to the home country are presented, the chances of getting the B visa are pretty good. If it IS denied, then during the K-1 application the denial of the B visa must be declared, but it would raise very few eyebrows since by the nature of the K-1 it is clear that the applicant has reasons to have wanted to visit the US, and since the K-1 is only issued to an applicant if their immigrant intent is clear, the denial of a B visa has no impact unless it was the result of the applicant being found ineligible for US entry for any of the same reasons that would apply to immigrant applications. There would be a question or two likely, just to ensure there are no issues outstanding and because it'll show up on the name check as a hit, but nothing problematic unless there was an indication of an attempt to hide the fact that the visa application and denial had taken place.

[pushbrk 13,611]

Your fiance can definitely try for a tourist visa, but in Turkey, they are VERY VERY hard to get. Also, remember that if he does get denied, he'll have some explaining to do when it comes for the K-1 interview. Seriously, they'll say flat out "why were you trying to go to the US when you had a visa in process, couldn't you wait?" I know this from some VJers that told me their experiences.

I know that people here will tell you its ok to travel while the K-1 is being processed, and I think that's more true for countries with waivers that don't need visa's to get into the US.

It's true in almost all circumstances, not just for those able to use the VWP.

It's important to remember that tourist visas are processed by non-immigrant sections on consulates, while K-1 visas are processed by immigrant sections. That's not just a semantic issue, it's a structural one based on the purpose of the visa. As such, applying for and even being denied a B visa does not have any real bearing on an application for, and approval of, a K-1.

It is important to declare that a K-1 process is underway when making the application, and it's possible that as a result the consulate will have heightened suspicion that the applicant has immigrant intent, but if sufficient evidence of continuing ties to the home country are presented, the chances of getting the B visa are pretty good. If it IS denied, then during the K-1 application the denial of the B visa must be declared, but it would raise very few eyebrows since by the nature of the K-1 it is clear that the applicant has reasons to have wanted to visit the US, and since the K-1 is only issued to an applicant if their immigrant intent is clear, the denial of a B visa has no impact unless it was the result of the applicant being found ineligible for US entry for any of the same reasons that would apply to immigrant applications. There would be a question or two likely, just to ensure there are no issues outstanding and because it'll show up on the name check as a hit, but nothing problematic unless there was an indication of an attempt to hide the fact that the visa application and denial had taken place.

I'm sure this varies by country but ties to home are trumped by immigrant intent. Filing of an I-129F for a K1 visa is prima facia evidence of immigrant intent. If the fiance already has a valid visitor visa they have a pretty good chance of being allowed in for a visit using that visa but it isn't a sure thing.

[Yodrak 7]

Andy,

It's also important, I believe, to have a well defined purpose for the trip, make that purpose clear, and if possible have evidence of that purpose. Both when applying for the B2 visa and when entering if the visa is granted. Showing some specific items that require a visit, and which after completion leave the visitor with no reason to remain in the USA, can be helpful in dispelling fears that the person will enter and decide remain. It helps to guide the consular or CBP officer's thoughts in the direction that you want them to think. Having no purpose for the trip other than 'I want to spend time with my fiance(e)' leaves the officer's mind free and clear to imagine that the worst may happen.

Yodrak

Your fiance can definitely try for a tourist visa, but in Turkey, they are VERY VERY hard to get. Also, remember that if he does get denied, he'll have some explaining to do when it comes for the K-1 interview. Seriously, they'll say flat out "why were you trying to go to the US when you had a visa in process, couldn't you wait?" I know this from some VJers that told me their experiences.

I know that people here will tell you its ok to travel while the K-1 is being processed, and I think that's more true for countries with waivers that don't need visa's to get into the US.

.....

It is important to declare that a K-1 process is underway when making the application, and it's possible that as a result the consulate will have heightened suspicion that the applicant has immigrant intent, but if sufficient evidence of continuing ties to the home country are presented, the chances of getting the B visa are pretty good. .....

Edited March 30, 2007 by Yodrak

[MM_MS 0]

Your fiance can definitely try for a tourist visa, but in Turkey, they are VERY VERY hard to get. Also, remember that if he does get denied, he'll have some explaining to do when it comes for the K-1 interview. Seriously, they'll say flat out "why were you trying to go to the US when you had a visa in process, couldn't you wait?" I know this from some VJers that told me their experiences.

I know that people here will tell you its ok to travel while the K-1 is being processed, and I think that's more true for countries with waivers that don't need visa's to get into the US.

It's true in almost all circumstances, not just for those able to use the VWP.

It's important to remember that tourist visas are processed by non-immigrant sections on consulates, while K-1 visas are processed by immigrant sections. That's not just a semantic issue, it's a structural one based on the purpose of the visa. As such, applying for and even being denied a B visa does not have any real bearing on an application for, and approval of, a K-1.

It is important to declare that a K-1 process is underway when making the application, and it's possible that as a result the consulate will have heightened suspicion that the applicant has immigrant intent, but if sufficient evidence of continuing ties to the home country are presented, the chances of getting the B visa are pretty good. If it IS denied, then during the K-1 application the denial of the B visa must be declared, but it would raise very few eyebrows since by the nature of the K-1 it is clear that the applicant has reasons to have wanted to visit the US, and since the K-1 is only issued to an applicant if their immigrant intent is clear, the denial of a B visa has no impact unless it was the result of the applicant being found ineligible for US entry for any of the same reasons that would apply to immigrant applications. There would be a question or two likely, just to ensure there are no issues outstanding and because it'll show up on the name check as a hit, but nothing problematic unless there was an indication of an attempt to hide the fact that the visa application and denial had taken place.

I'm sure this varies by country but ties to home are trumped by immigrant intent. Filing of an I-129F for a K1 visa is prima facia evidence of immigrant intent. If the fiance already has a valid visitor visa they have a pretty good chance of being allowed in for a visit using that visa but it isn't a sure thing.

He does not yet have the Tourist Visa. He would be applying for it.

[Andy 2]

It's also important, I believe, to have a well defined purpose for the trip, make that purpose clear, and if possible have evidence of that purpose.

Yes indeed, thank you for adding that. I wasn't so much concerned here about the probability of approval/denial and how to affect it so much as the contention that making the application at all was a bad thing or likely to create difficulties for the K-1 process to come.

[Andy 2]

I'm sure this varies by country but ties to home are trumped by immigrant intent. Filing of an I-129F for a K1 visa is prima facia evidence of immigrant intent.

Actually it works the other way around - ties to home trump the mandated belief that immigrant intent exists if the evidence presented of those ties is sufficient enough. If not, the presumption of immigrant intent remains and the visa must then be denied.

The filing of an I-129F is indeed evidence of immigrant intent, but that doesn't prevent a non-immigrant visa being approved if the applicant can show that on that visit, or any subsequent one during which the visa may remain valid, the intention is to leave the country before the date required. If that were not the case, no-one with a pending K-1 case could expect entry to the US for a visit, and clearly many K-1 beneficiaries do travel successfully to the US while the case is pending - sometimes even while their K-1 visa applications are in process at the consulate.

[sunset2005 0]

I was told by the Amman Embassy that it would not hurt the petition to apply for a tourist visa but chances of getting one were SLIM!

So, I'm on the phone yesterday talking with MS about my trip to Istanbul in July - where to buy the wedding rings, buying things we want for the house, maybe travel a bit.

Then he suggested that he come to San Francisco in July instead. I would LOVE that!

But I silently worried about the I-129F at CSC and the embassy in Istanbul and how blinkin' slow they are under the best of conditions. Perhaps applying for a Tourist Visa might muck things up good, and really slow down the K-1 approval.

I'm going nuts as it is - just waiting as everything moves along at it's normal lightning turtle pace.

Please advise! Thanks -

MM in San Francisco

MS in Istanbul

[pushbrk 13,611]

I'm sure this varies by country but ties to home are trumped by immigrant intent. Filing of an I-129F for a K1 visa is prima facia evidence of immigrant intent.

Actually it works the other way around - ties to home trump the mandated belief that immigrant intent exists if the evidence presented of those ties is sufficient enough. If not, the presumption of immigrant intent remains and the visa must then be denied.

The filing of an I-129F is indeed evidence of immigrant intent, but that doesn't prevent a non-immigrant visa being approved if the applicant can show that on that visit, or any subsequent one during which the visa may remain valid, the intention is to leave the country before the date required. If that were not the case, no-one with a pending K-1 case could expect entry to the US for a visit, and clearly many K-1 beneficiaries do travel successfully to the US while the case is pending - sometimes even while their K-1 visa applications are in process at the consulate.

Obtaining a nonimmigrant visa for travel while the K1 is in process is not the same thing as being admitted to the US for a visit. I'm sure many K-1 beneficiaries do travel successfully to the US while the case is pending but a very small number of those needed to apply for and be approved for a visa. Among those, their Country of residence was a major factor.

I agree that compelling reasons to return home CAN trump already declared immigrant intent but the chances are slim. Depending on the country, the attempt to do so is often viewed quite differently. For instance, it doesn't work at all from China.

[Andy 2]

Obtaining a nonimmigrant visa for travel while the K1 is in process is not the same thing as being admitted to the US for a visit. I'm sure many K-1 beneficiaries do travel successfully to the US while the case is pending but a very small number of those needed to apply for and be approved for a visa. Among those, their Country of residence was a major factor.

I agree that compelling reasons to return home CAN trump already declared immigrant intent but the chances are slim. Depending on the country, the attempt to do so is often viewed quite differently. For instance, it doesn't work at all from China.

Well, yes they are - at least in terms of the principles that apply regarding the presumption of immigrant intent and the evidential standards required to overcome that presumption. The same rules of ineligibility apply too, and are applied in the same way.

The difference is a telling one - that of course the first is judged by the DoS and the other by the DHS. The DHS apply them in a reasonably coherent and uniform way (though not independently of personal judgments), while the DoS apply them based on a uniform set of rules which are applied with varying emphasis from one post to another, largely dependent on local issues, or the perception of local issues held by consular staff. Hence you see variations is success rates for non-immigrant applications between consular offices around the world, just as you see patterns of denial of admission that tend to reflect the same national patterns.

However, the principle remains. The law requires DHS and DoS staff to assume immigrant intent unless sufficiently demonstrated otherwise. It's in the definition of 'sufficient' that the variations lie.

[Yodrak 7]

pushbrk,

I agree - a submitted petition is advance notice that ties to home will be severed. That's why it's important to emphasize the purpose of the proposed visit and compelling reasons why the applicant will depart the USA when the purpose has been accomplished. It's necessary to establish that although the person does intend to ultimately take up residence in the USA they do not intend to do so on this visit.

A different way of looking at the issue that has significance, and a concept that many people can't seem to grasp, but it is something that can add pounds to those slim chances.

Yodrak

I agree that compelling reasons to return home CAN trump already declared immigrant intent but the chances are slim. ......

Edited March 30, 2007 by Yodrak

[MPGGPM 0]

First, the I-129F will go through Ankara......not Istanbul.

However, as far as the tourist visa is concerned..............the points made by "Andy" and "Yodrak" are good ones. Basically.....................if you make a good case, there are people in the consulate who are willing to listen. I think it would be worth a try. You only have $100 or so to lose.........