Career advice needed

[FutureAmerican 2]

Hi all,

Although I'm still several months off getting the CR1 in hand, I'm doing my best to figure out my career choice in the meantime. In a nutshell, I'm seriously considering enlisting in the US military, for everything from wanting to do something for my new country, to the education/skills training, fast-track to Citizenship etc.

My choice is between the Army, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard (Navy doesn't have as many ratings which interest me, and USAF only take people who have lived in the US for 2 years). The USCG is something I might not be eligible for, due to the type of Green Card I'll be getting...

In the Marine Corps, Army, and Navy recruiting manuals I have seen, they all make note of the CR1 and accept holders of this for enlistment (on the condition you apply for the IR1 after the 2 years expires, or more likely go for the accelerated route to US Citizenship), the USAF specifically requires an IR1, and I have not seen any mention either way for the USCG (although it doesn't specifically forbid 2 year Green Card holders, it does not have a paragraph about them in the same way the Army, Navy, and USMC do).

I've been trying to get clarification on this from a USCG Recruiter, but have not had any luck yet

With the USCG I'm looking at Bosun's Mate or Operations Specialist. One advantage with the USCG is that I can go in as a non-rate, apply for my US Citizenship whilst I'm at my first posting after boot camp, and then once that comes through have the full choice of ratings (including things like OS which I'm not eligible for as a non-Citizen). Both of the above options include some Law Enforcement, but the former is generally more "hands on" (doing boardings etc), and the latter more to do with case preparation, controlling units from a command centre, some intel work etc.

The USMC/Army I'm looking at MOS's 5831 and 31E respectively (Corrections specialist) - again more hands on work, but should be useful experience. Possible locations is another deciding factor - wife&I would love to spend some time overseas (though working in a US capacity), and the Army could get us to Germany, Marine Corps to Japan. Both could involve possible deployment to the Sandbox, but it's less likely in this MOS (although I'm not counting on that, and if I get the call, then we'll take it as part of life's challenges). The USCG is very low likelihood of deployment, and we would like to spend some time in Alaska etc, which would be an option.

The final aim is to either get into Federal Law Enforcement, or go into USAF Space Operations once I finish up the initial enlistment in another service.

The funny thing is that my education/work experience is pretty different - Bachelor's in Materials Engineering, various internships doing research work, and now working as a Project Engineer for my Dad's company in the UK. I've always had a strong interest in Law Enforcement and the military though, and I want to do something like this whilst I'm still young and physically fit enough.

Overall, I'd be happy to hear any opinions/comments on the situation - I've posted about this on other forums (such as military, police centred ones), so I figured I'd throw it out here too. Apologies for the long post - just wanted to get all the information out there to clarify the situation!

Thanks in advance to all who respond!

FA.

[Otto 83]

Have you thought about OTS? (Officer's Training School) If you have a degree - it could happen - Id never suggest enlist if OTS were possible. Much stronger on your resume afterward.

[bostonparis 0]

Having served in the US Army, I can tell you that just because the Army has bases in Germany, it does NOT mean that you will be stationed there. Honestly, if you request it, you probably will not get there. Do not join the Army just because you think you might. My first husband was stationed in Germany. I requested a transfer from Massachusetts. I did not get the transfer, so I got out of the Army. If they're not stationing married couples together, think about how likely it is to be stationed there just because you want to...

Join the branch of service that you think will serve you best. Air Force treats their service members best (living conditions, training, etc.), but it's harder to get promoted.

Army and Navy are probably second to AF as far as the way its members are treated/promoted. The only thing I know about Marine Corps is that the training is tough (of course), but the way people come out of the training isn't really great (no offense to former Marines here) - very unobjective, very rigid, not open-minded... and I've seen this a lot (including my second ex).

[Lizzy 0]

I thought you had to be a UC citizen to be in the Army, am i wrong or have i misread your post and you are? Or is this that selective service?

Edited March 11, 2007 by Lizzy

[FutureAmerican 2]

OTS is not an option till I become a Citizen - either wait 3 years as a civilian (married to my USC Spouse), or enlist and get it fast-tracked (prob take around 6-9 months or so, from other people's experiences).

You can enlist in the US Military as a non-citizen, if you are a Green Card holder (i.e. CR1 or IR1). USAF only takes IR1 holders, Army, Navy, Marine Corps take CR1 holders or IR1 Holders, US Coast Guard is unclear, and I am trying to clear that up atm. There is a limited choice of MOS(or rating) - which is your speciality in the military (e.g. Infantry, Artillery etc - stuff like Intelligence is an example of what would be off-limits). Some services such as the USCG let you go in as a "non-rate", so although you'd be doing general duties at first (such as cleaning etc), that'd give you the opportunity to get the Citizenship through and then have a full choice of specialities. It may take a little longer to get your name down for the "A School" (training centre) which you want, but at least you do what want.

With my Bachelors, I would get a slightly better rank if I enlisted - Army = E-4, USCG = E-3, Marine Corps = E-2, and sometimes a monetary bonus or guaranteed first posting.

[rebeccajo 14]

I personally feel you might be a whole lot happier applying for local law enforcement work in your community. Perhaps even applying for a license as a private investigator.

Don't be deluded into thinking you can 'pick' a career path in the US military and necessarily get to stay on it. They have an interesting way of putting you where they need you.

[FutureAmerican 2]

Yeah - local LE is something else I've looked into, and have done a couple of "ride-alongs" with some sheriffs departments in colorado (both on patrol and in the county jail, to see both sides of the work). Luckily Colorado doesn't have a state law barring non-citizens from working in LE (unlike, say, California), so most departments (with a few exceptions such as Denver) would take my application. My wife and I are torn between the idea of getting new experiences through travelling etc (which the military could offer), and the relative security that Colorado offers with her family & friends there. We also understand that the classic phrase "needs of the service" overides all else in the military, so there's that to consider too.

[FutureAmerican 2]

BTW, anyone interested in the "fast track to Citizenship" which you can get by enlisting in the military, there's info at this link:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...00048f3d6a1RCRD

As I understand it, the current law is as follows:

- Active Duty members of the military are eligible for Citizenship after 1 year of service.

- This 1 year requirement is waived if the member serves during an authorised period of conflict.

- Recently President Bush signed an executive order to the effect that since the attacks on September 11th, 2001, the US is in an authorised period of conflict. This order has not been cancelled yet.

So, if you enlist now, then you are eligible for US Citizenship. I believe that it takes several months for the paperwork to go through (from reading about other people's experiences), but the fees etc are waived.

[Ban Hammer 12,837]

Having served in the US Army, I can tell you that just because the Army has bases in Germany, it does NOT mean that you will be stationed there. Honestly, if you request it, you probably will not get there. Do not join the Army just because you think you might. My first husband was stationed in Germany. I requested a transfer from Massachusetts. I did not get the transfer, so I got out of the Army. If they're not stationing married couples together, think about how likely it is to be stationed there just because you want to...

Join the branch of service that you think will serve you best. Air Force treats their service members best (living conditions, training, etc.), but it's harder to get promoted.

Army and Navy are probably second to AF as far as the way its members are treated/promoted. The only thing I know about Marine Corps is that the training is tough (of course), but the way people come out of the training isn't really great (no offense to former Marines here) - very unobjective, very rigid, not open-minded... and I've seen this a lot (including my second ex).

the military tries to station married couples within a certain radius of each other. however, there is always that catch phrase of "at the needs of the army"

to be stationed in germany, just put on your dream sheet the far east

it worked for me for 20 years

I personally feel you might be a whole lot happier applying for local law enforcement work in your community. Perhaps even applying for a license as a private investigator.

Don't be deluded into thinking you can 'pick' a career path in the US military and necessarily get to stay on it. They have an interesting way of putting you where they need you.

depends on the career path, becca. they won't take someone with lots of training and make them be a cook.

[rebeccajo 14]

I personally feel you might be a whole lot happier applying for local law enforcement work in your community. Perhaps even applying for a license as a private investigator.

Don't be deluded into thinking you can 'pick' a career path in the US military and necessarily get to stay on it. They have an interesting way of putting you where they need you.

depends on the career path, becca. they won't take someone with lots of training and make them be a cook.

That makes sense. Can you define 'lots of training'.

I've known several young people who DIDN'T have lots of training go into the service hopeful of a certain career path. Some came out disappointed that they didn't get exactly what the recruiter promised.

[slim 1,514]

Plain and simple, if you enlist in the Army or Marine Corps, you can pack your bags.... you're going to Iraq. If you're lucky, you may only go to Afghanistan, but either way, within 18 months of your enlistment, you're going to be spitting sand and dodging IEDs.

Don't listen to your recruiters. Recruiters are like used-car salesmen. They'll tell you anything you want to hear and amazingly "possible" stories, but in the real world, that stuff just doesn't happen. You've already been set up to enlist, make the transition to OTS, become a USC, etc., and it sounds really great. Did they tell you that's all "possbile"? In reality, you don't have time to do that stuff while you're escorting convoys down MSR Tampa. (That's what corrections specialists.... and everyone else in the Army does in Iraq.)

If you're going to join the military at all (and I'll say right now, getting married to a USC and immigrating here, then joining the military is like cutting your prospects for a happy marriage in half) go with the Coast Guard. You'll get still get all the benefits of the military, without all the costs. Navy isn't too bad either, Iraq is almost all landlocked.

I think it's great that you're going to join the military as soon as you get here. We can't even get our own people to join the military any more. (Although we will pay them to sit in free apartments and $#!^ out babies while they watch cable tv all day because they refuse to work.) You will take something from your military service and you'll be on the fast track to citizenship. BUT I STRONGLY RECOMMEND AGAINST THE HOO-RAH SERVICES!!!

You are better off to settle into your new life here in the States and if you want to work as a corrections officer (they are hiring here like crazy!) just join up with the local prison or LE agency. Since you have a degree in Materials Engineering, come on over here, get a degree in a related field, work for a few years, wait on your IR-1 and then join the Air Force where you can go in straight as an officer (where life is very nice) and finally transition into Space Ops. I can tell you as an Air Force vet, life in the military is cool, but after a while, it gets old. It's not like what you see on TV, and you may find that your interest in Law Enforcement/Military things dissipates quickly once you get into it.

But, who knows. Maybe for you it'll work out just fine. With a wife though, military life is extra hard.

If you want to help your citizenship process and still do something good for your new country, change the world, etc., since you already have a degree, check out some of the other govt. agencies like the Peace Corps or even something like the NOAA. The U.S. govt. has literally thousands of jobs and hundreds of agencies. I know, you could be an ICE agent!!! That would kill two birds with one stone!

Good luck in your decision. I just look at it like so many of the guys in the military are in there because they have to be. With a college education, you're already set up to do what most of those guys got suckered into joining to get.

[meauxna 15]

Whoa.. well balanced discussion... great info from FutureAmerican AND a great response from slim.

Thanks for all the references and links (I had a question about this myself not long ago...)

[Ban Hammer 12,837]

I personally feel you might be a whole lot happier applying for local law enforcement work in your community. Perhaps even applying for a license as a private investigator.

Don't be deluded into thinking you can 'pick' a career path in the US military and necessarily get to stay on it. They have an interesting way of putting you where they need you.

depends on the career path, becca. they won't take someone with lots of training and make them be a cook.

That makes sense. Can you define 'lots of training'.

I've known several young people who DIDN'T have lots of training go into the service hopeful of a certain career path. Some came out disappointed that they didn't get exactly what the recruiter promised.

certainly

if someone's job requires say more than 3 months of training, it's more cost effective to keep them in their job. along with that, add in a security clearance and an asi (additional skill identifier) and it pretty much keeps them employed in that particular job.

however, someone joining the military and not passing the required course for the job, failing the security requirements, and so on means they are at the needs of the army in the way of job assignment.

if their contract states they are going to be an inflight rocket repairman, and the school isn't available, then they have a breach of contract and can get discharged. in most cases i remember, it was the person failing to meet the standards in some way.

[FutureAmerican 2]

Thanks for the replies from everyone - particularly slim for the long response. In a way I'm hoping that the USCG will come through and allow me to enlist with the CR1 - they're the top choice right now, as they do have a strong Law Enforcement role, and everyone I've spoken to who has been in it has had nothing but good things to say about the service. The Coastie recruiter seemed to be very honest with me, about how tough it can be on spouses when on patrols, how much the benefits etc really stack up. I haven't yet spoken to an army or marines recruiter in person, although I did chat to a National Guard recruiter back in November - he gave a lot of useful information, and again was pretty honest about the amount of deployments etc they've had in recent years (I double checked the info he gave afterwards on the web etc).

To be honest the problem will be convincing my family about it:

I’ve tried to talk about this with my older brother (27 to my 23), and Dad, but the former seems to concentrate too much on the negative aspects (which I do appreciate to some extent, as I have to weigh up all sides), and although I’ve had some discussions with the latter, for the most part he’ll listen and nod, but then divert the conversation to something else (e.g. "have you thought about working in *fill in the blank*"). My Mum would probably take it the hardest tbh, as she worries the most about me, and the past year have had a lot of big turning points in my life (graduating college, getting married, starting the immigration paperwork etc).

My Brother suggested I draw up a Word Document with all the information on it, from pay and bonuses to MOS's, enlistment times etc, which I've been working on, and I hope will answer a lot of the questions they may have. One reason why it may be hard for my parents, is because my Bro and I are so different (he’s doing a Phd in Computer science, prob going to do research for the rest of his life, liberal/apathetic, pretty quiet and shy, "don't get involved" type etc).

My wife really supports it, as do her side of the family, partly I think because they're more conservative than my family, and my Father-in-Law was in the Marine Corps for 8 years, and both him and Mom-in-law do miss the life a lot, despite the moving around etc they had to go through.

So there it is...I guess that's the other sub-topic - if I go into the military or Law Enforcement, talking to my family about it!

Edited March 12, 2007 by FutureAmerican

[FutureAmerican 2]

Quick update - spoke to a US Coast Guard recruiter over the phone today - he said that as the only requirement is a valid I-551 or I-151, then the CR1 is covered under that, so I'm eligible to enlist.

So, in summary, if you want to enlist in the US Military, then CR1 = Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, IR1 = all the aforementioned and the USAF.