Another I-134 Question

[AlinaB 43]

Hi everyone,

I have searched through the forum and found the answers to some of my I-134 questions. Unfortunately, I have a few remaining. They stem from my Dad not wanting to cosponsor. He is a CPA and a stickler for the rules. Even though I can convince him that the I-134 will not hold up in court (likely will not anyway), he is still very hesitant. This leads me to the following questions:

1. What do you think my chances are? My fiance is coming from Indonesia.

I don't want to plaster my finances on the board, but I have a PhD stipend that ends in May. This plus my assests puts me above the min required. However, my job ends in May... And I have a weird stipend this school year because of research; it's only for one semester. My biggest fear is that regardless of the assets that put me well over the min required (savings and a house), they will deny us based on my current job being a temporary position.

2. Can I try myself first? What happens if we are denied at the interview? Could I then send in my Dad's form?

Thanks in advance

[military-wife 9]

You will need to show proof that you meet the income requirement, temporary position or not. This usually requires showing your actual income on your taxes. Income can also be investments, retirement funds, etc. I just sent in my husband's income tax return of past years and the recent one. Pay stubs are also proof of employment. He also had a lot of savings.

If they send you a Return for Evidence (RFE) after you send the docs, then I suggest you find another cosponsor. I don't think it's likely that they refuse your fiancé K1 visa at the interview if they accepted your docs in the first place and even requested an interview. Usually what they are searching for at your fiancé interview is if you're in a bona fide relationship. Money matters but it looks like you have assets well beyond min. I remember the interviewer mainly asking me how I met my fiancé, how long we have been dating, when's the last time we saw each other and what he does for a living, but the last part wasn't really emphasized.

Good luck!

[Ash.1101 1,756]

You will need to show proof that you meet the income requirement, temporary position or not. This usually requires showing your actual income on your taxes. Income can also be investments, retirement funds, etc. I just sent in my husband's income tax return of past years and the recent one. Pay stubs are also proof of employment. He also had a lot of savings.

If they send you a Return for Evidence (RFE) after you send the docs, then I suggest you find another cosponsor. I don't think it's likely that they refuse your fiancé K1 visa at the interview if they accepted your docs in the first place and even requested an interview. Usually what they are searching for at your fiancé interview is if you're in a bona fide relationship. Money matters but it looks like you have assets well beyond min. I remember the interviewer mainly asking me how I met my fiancé, how long we have been dating, when's the last time we saw each other and what he does for a living, but the last part wasn't really emphasized.

Good luck!

For K-1 Financial documentation isn't sent with the petition. They won't get an RFE at the NVC stage because finances aren't look at until the interview which would most likely be when he DOESN'T have the assets, as he posted. Until the interview, they have no idea what his finances look like, his fiance will bring the proof in as requested to give to the interviewer. Also, just for reference, there was just a case at the Canadian consulate about two months ago where the financials were passed through the NVC and then denied at interview. It does happen a bit.

As for the OP:

Finances are done at the interview, which is usually about 5-7 months after you file the I-129F, which could mean your fiances interview could be in April-June so you may not even be able to use your stipend as proof. Not to mention, there are a few federal holidays coming up this month and next month which could cause some delays.

I'd say, when it gets closer to the time, try to get your dad to cosponsor, but remember when you go to do Adjustment of Status, if you can't support your fiance without a cosponsor by then, the I-864 is legally binding for you and your cosponsor. While there aren't many (I think someone said the last they saw was in 2008) cases of the government going after sponsors for money, it is easily upheld in court as it's an agreement/contract.

NOTE: If your fiance is going through Manilla Consulate, I don't believe they are currently taking cosponsors/HEAVILY dislike cosponsors. Please update your timeline and info so we know where your fiances going though, but if you know she's going to go through Manilla, you may want to figure out another plan, they do NOT like cosponsors.

With that said, I disagree with the above post, money is important, Canada isn't high fraud by any means, but Indonesia for the OP isn't as easy to go through if easy is even an appropriate word.

What will happen at the interview if they feel your finances aren't good enough is (In a normal situation):

They will give your fiance a 221(g) form that has a box checked that your case will recieve further consideration once requested documents are recieved, and then a box will be checked for I-134 and supporting financial documentation from a jointsponsor/Cosponsor that meets HHS guidelines.

You are, in most cases, then given a year to send in the documents as they instruct on the paper, and then once they receive the cosponsor documentation you're back in the waiting game for the approval.

Pretty sure they don't just flat out deny, but they -can-, but 98% of the time they give you a chance to find a cosponsor. I've heard Manilla is pretty awful though, so you may want to plan carefully.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Ash.1101

[Ash.1101 1,756]

Edit: I'm assuming your fiance will go through Jakarta and not Manila. Geography was not my strong suit!

[AlinaB 43]

Edit: I'm assuming your fiance will go through Jakarta and not Manila. Geography was not my strong suit!

Heh - yeah, Manila is not the right country

As a start, I am actually a she. Also, I thought my timeline was updated but perhaps not. We should get (if the stars align) our NOA2 by the end of the month. So actually, this problem is current and will likely come to a head in January/February.

I really appreciate your lengthy response, this was the type of information I needed. It sounds like maybe it might be ok to try on my own first. I can always ask my Dad to collect the paperwork beforehand just in case. I wonder if anyone has had experience with how long of another wait this will be? As in, once I send my fiance the updated paperwork, can he just make a new appointment and be reviewed again in a few weeks?

I doubt that by the time the I-864 rolls around that I will need my Dad to cosponsor anymore. It will be much easier for me to look for stable work when I am back in the states in January.

[military-wife 9]

For K-1 Financial documentation isn't sent with the petition. They won't get an RFE at the NVC stage because finances aren't look at until the interview which would most likely be when he DOESN'T have the assets, as he posted. Until the interview, they have no idea what his finances look like, his fiance will bring the proof in as requested to give to the interviewer. Also, just for reference, there was just a case at the Canadian consulate about two months ago where the financials were passed through the NVC and then denied at interview. It does happen a bit.

As for the OP:

Finances are done at the interview, which is usually about 5-7 months after you file the I-129F, which could mean your fiances interview could be in April-June so you may not even be able to use your stipend as proof. Not to mention, there are a few federal holidays coming up this month and next month which could cause some delays.

I'd say, when it gets closer to the time, try to get your dad to cosponsor, but remember when you go to do Adjustment of Status, if you can't support your fiance without a cosponsor by then, the I-864 is legally binding for you and your cosponsor. While there aren't many (I think someone said the last they saw was in 2008) cases of the government going after sponsors for money, it is easily upheld in court as it's an agreement/contract.

NOTE: If your fiance is going through Manilla Consulate, I don't believe they are currently taking cosponsors/HEAVILY dislike cosponsors. Please update your timeline and info so we know where your fiances going though, but if you know she's going to go through Manilla, you may want to figure out another plan, they do NOT like cosponsors.

With that said, I disagree with the above post, money is important, Canada isn't high fraud by any means, but Indonesia for the OP isn't as easy to go through if easy is even an appropriate word.

What will happen at the interview if they feel your finances aren't good enough is (In a normal situation):

They will give your fiance a 221(g) form that has a box checked that your case will recieve further consideration once requested documents are recieved, and then a box will be checked for I-134 and supporting financial documentation from a jointsponsor/Cosponsor that meets HHS guidelines.

You are, in most cases, then given a year to send in the documents as they instruct on the paper, and then once they receive the cosponsor documentation you're back in the waiting game for the approval.

Pretty sure they don't just flat out deny, but they -can-, but 98% of the time they give you a chance to find a cosponsor. I've heard Manilla is pretty awful though, so you may want to plan carefully.

I never said money isn't important. Please read my post properly. I am just advising the person that other assets are also considered and not just current income. The person will have to show recent taxes, but can also show past taxes. Ive heard people get an RFE in their initial application because they didn't show proof of meeting the min. income requirement, that is why we didn't take the chance and sent it anyway. Also in the initial application the OP should emphasize on showing proof that they are in a real relationship. I would say a lot of petitions are denied because there is not enough proof, especially if it's from non-Western country. The OP has time to get her finances straight before the interview, since it takes time before getting a date. She should consider her father as cosponsor, but in the affidavit of support there is also a section on investment and other assets like a house, car, etc. The value of those are considered.

Edited November 8, 2015 by military-wife

[Ash.1101 1,756]

I never said money isn't important. Please read my post properly. I am just advising the person that other assets are also considered and not just current income. The person will have to show recent taxes, but can also show past taxes. Ive heard people get an RFE in their initial application because they didn't show proof of meeting the min. income requirement, that is why we didn't take the chance and sent it anyway. Also in the initial application the OP should emphasize on showing proof that they are in a real relationship. I would say a lot of petitions are denied because there is not enough proof, especially if it's from non-Western country. The OP has time to get her finances straight before the interview, since it takes time before getting a date. She should consider her father as cosponsor, but in the affidavit of support there is also a section on investment and other assets like a house, car, etc. The value of those are considered.

I guess I more so see it as, if they don't make sure the money is 100%, it won't matter how legit they are as a couple. Money comes first, in my opinion for all countries. If you know that you're good money wise, which in this case the petitioner will ONLY be good money wise between Jan and May, then you're fine. They've also already sent out the initial application, we're trying to judge if they will have enough money by the time the interview happens.

The only people who get RFE's for income are those doing almost any visa other than K1, as it's not looked at, nor requested at USCIS level, the NVC process for K1 isn't the same as spousal, mostly just data entry and case transfer.

Heh - yeah, Manila is not the right country

As a start, I am actually a she. Also, I thought my timeline was updated but perhaps not. We should get (if the stars align) our NOA2 by the end of the month. So actually, this problem is current and will likely come to a head in January/February.

I really appreciate your lengthy response, this was the type of information I needed. It sounds like maybe it might be ok to try on my own first. I can always ask my Dad to collect the paperwork beforehand just in case. I wonder if anyone has had experience with how long of another wait this will be? As in, once I send my fiance the updated paperwork, can he just make a new appointment and be reviewed again in a few weeks?

I doubt that by the time the I-864 rolls around that I will need my Dad to cosponsor anymore. It will be much easier for me to look for stable work when I am back in the states in January.

I usually see the little country icon but I guess it doesn't show one! And sorry, usually it's a he doing this!

If you can show that your current income is enough with assets WHILE you have the assets, then you should be okay, but yes, they can deny your income because it is temporary.

You also say you're coming back int the states in January and you can get stable work then, but that the job ends in may, I'm assuming you mean a second job? If, at your fiances interview, you make enough then no problems.

At the same time, if they don't know that your job is ending in May, but I don't really condone that as I would personally get an employer letter that would end up saying it was a temporary job. Also, remember, your fiance will do his AOSing after being married, so you may want to make sure you have someone to cosponsor for that too if needed.

While a lot of people say "Just show tax returns and you're fine" a good example of tax return logic is this as I've posted in another thread:

My dad had a six figure job, making well over 100k for about six years. His tax return and W2 both reflect this for the most recent tax year, but he was laid off about two months after filing taxes. If you judged income ability off the tax returns, it'd look like he makes a great amount, but in reality, his current income is 0$.

I'd say get the paper work from your dad to cosponsor, and have your fiance take that to his interview. If he gets asked for a cosponsor at the interview, he'll have the papers right there. There also isn't usually a second review or anything, if your fiance doesn't meet the financial requirements, he'll simply get asked to send them in and then you basically wait until they process them which can take a bit. Once you send the papers in, you basically wait for the yes or no, and there's nothing else to do.

It's usually best to send all relevant financial info about a month before the interview, the more recent, the better, and again, having your fathers paperwork and supporting financial documentation at the interview can do nothing other than help, if you make enough, they just won't bother with your fathers info, if they don't feel like you make enough, then they have your fathers info right there!

But again, if they know your job is temporary, yes they can ask for a cosponsor or deny based on public charge.

Like the other poster said though, it could still be a while before your interview, you'll have a better idea of what your finances are then closer to the interview. There's still a bit of waiting between just NOA2 and the interview, not including NOA1 to NOA2 wait time.

[military-wife 9]

I guess I more so see it as, if they don't make sure the money is 100%, it won't matter how legit they are as a couple. Money comes first, in my opinion for all countries. If you know that you're good money wise, which in this case the petitioner will ONLY be good money wise between Jan and May, then you're fine. They've also already sent out the initial application, we're trying to judge if they will have enough money by the time the interview happens.

The only people who get RFE's for income are those doing almost any visa other than K1, as it's not looked at, nor requested at USCIS level, the NVC process for K1 isn't the same as spousal, mostly just data entry and case transfer.

I usually see the little country icon but I guess it doesn't show one! And sorry, usually it's a he doing this!

If you can show that your current income is enough with assets WHILE you have the assets, then you should be okay, but yes, they can deny your income because it is temporary.

You also say you're coming back int the states in January and you can get stable work then, but that the job ends in may, I'm assuming you mean a second job? If, at your fiances interview, you make enough then no problems.

At the same time, if they don't know that your job is ending in May, but I don't really condone that as I would personally get an employer letter that would end up saying it was a temporary job. Also, remember, your fiance will do his AOSing after being married, so you may want to make sure you have someone to cosponsor for that too if needed.

While a lot of people say "Just show tax returns and you're fine" a good example of tax return logic is this as I've posted in another thread:

My dad had a six figure job, making well over 100k for about six years. His tax return and W2 both reflect this for the most recent tax year, but he was laid off about two months after filing taxes. If you judged income ability off the tax returns, it'd look like he makes a great amount, but in reality, his current income is 0$.

I'd say get the paper work from your dad to cosponsor, and have your fiance take that to his interview. If he gets asked for a cosponsor at the interview, he'll have the papers right there. There also isn't usually a second review or anything, if your fiance doesn't meet the financial requirements, he'll simply get asked to send them in and then you basically wait until they process them which can take a bit. Once you send the papers in, you basically wait for the yes or no, and there's nothing else to do.

It's usually best to send all relevant financial info about a month before the interview, the more recent, the better, and again, having your fathers paperwork and supporting financial documentation at the interview can do nothing other than help, if you make enough, they just won't bother with your fathers info, if they don't feel like you make enough, then they have your fathers info right there!

But again, if they know your job is temporary, yes they can ask for a cosponsor or deny based on public charge.

Like the other poster said though, it could still be a while before your interview, you'll have a better idea of what your finances are then closer to the interview. There's still a bit of waiting between just NOA2 and the interview, not including NOA1 to NOA2 wait time.

Money is important I agree with that. The interviewer will not know that her job ended in May, unless he asks then you cannot lie. If she makes enough in that 6 months that goes beyond the minimum then she should be okay. I still think she should consider asking her father again to cosponsor.. maybe bring the form just "in case" they refuse the petition based on income at the interview?

The reason why I mentioned the "other assets" that should be considered is because my USC does not make that much as an annual income but he has a significant amount of investments and other tangible assets. I know that every case is different... my husband does have a stable job so I can't really say if she would be denied or not.

[Ash.1101 1,756]

Money is important I agree with that. The interviewer will not know that her job ended in May, unless he asks then you cannot lie. If she makes enough in that 6 months that goes beyond the minimum then she should be okay. I still think she should consider asking her father again to cosponsor.. maybe bring the form just "in case" they refuse the petition based on income at the interview?

The reason why I mentioned the "other assets" that should be considered is because my USC does not make that much as an annual income but he has a significant amount of investments and other tangible assets. I know that every case is different... my husband does have a stable job so I can't really say if she would be denied or not.

Yeah, that's the only reason I said to maybe not mention it. Some employer letters state if the job is permanent or temporary, which would get them right there.

I absolutely agree about having her father cosponsor 100% at the minimum bring the paperwork.

And yeah sadly it'll be a hit or miss, sometimes the on paper requirements aren't as solid as they seem, which I've experienced myself. In my case, I didn't make any income and used a cosponsor who made over 125% poverty guide lines for the household size and at the interview my fiance was then asked for ANOTHER cosponsor that meets the same requirements, acknowledging that my mom (our first cosponsor) made enough and met the requirements, but that he just had a "bad feeling on the finances" but praised everything else we had because we brought an abundance of proof.

So now, seeing first hand that the CO's can and will use their discretion even if it meets the "okay" standards we say on VJ ("Just get a cosponsor you'll be fine!") and even on their own papers, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to people who are either unemployed long term, short term, or know they will be within a couple of months.

Again though, if the OP gets a new job or at least gets the father to cosponsor IF NEEDED, then everything should be dandy.

[SalSterling 10]

Hi everyone,

I have searched through the forum and found the answers to some of my I-134 questions. Unfortunately, I have a few remaining. They stem from my Dad not wanting to cosponsor. He is a CPA and a stickler for the rules. Even though I can convince him that the I-134 will not hold up in court (likely will not anyway), he is still very hesitant. This leads me to the following questions:

1. What do you think my chances are? My fiance is coming from Indonesia.

I don't want to plaster my finances on the board, but I have a PhD stipend that ends in May. This plus my assests puts me above the min required. However, my job ends in May... And I have a weird stipend this school year because of research; it's only for one semester. My biggest fear is that regardless of the assets that put me well over the min required (savings and a house), they will deny us based on my current job being a temporary position.

2. Can I try myself first? What happens if we are denied at the interview? Could I then send in my Dad's form?

Thanks in advance

My situation is very similar to you and went ahead and submitted my I134 based on my assets. My fiancee's interview is on 18th. of this month and then we will know if they do take assets seriously or not.

[AlinaB 43]

Thank you again to everyone's comments.

To calrify, I am a PhD student, so this "job" is a teaching assistantship that will be valid for Spring 2016 semester. I am currently finishing up my research otherwise it would have been a year. I am sure that the letter from the university will state that this job ends in May. I think I actually have a letter that details this out in my records at home. Universities don't mince words. However, with noth my advanced degree and experience, I am eligible for many jobs. I don't have to keep this TA position. If I find a job that pays more, I will take it. However, since I am not stateside yet, job hunting is not so easy.

@SalSterling - I am very curious how your interview will go. I know that each embassy differs, but it will still be interesting to see. I absolutely have enough assests even without the job. And my tax return from the last few years will show I had a job consistently (TA lines, and a government position here in Indonesia). Perhaps they will see that I may look like a poor PhD, but I do just fine and have good prospects. Good luck to you!

[KayDeeCee 4,902]

Ive heard people get an RFE in their initial application because they didn't show proof of meeting the min. income requirement, that is why we didn't take the chance and sent it anyway. Also in the initial application the OP should emphasize on showing proof that they are in a real relationship. I would say a lot of petitions are denied because there is not enough proof, especially if it's from non-Western country. The OP has time to get her finances straight before the interview, since it takes time before getting a date. She should consider her father as cosponsor, but in the affidavit of support there is also a section on investment and other assets like a house, car, etc. The value of those are considered.

By initial 'application', are you meaning the I-129F petition? That is not an application at all, and it does not require financial information. No one would, or does, receive an RFE for not meeting any income requirements with the I-129F petition. They are not included with the petition and are not dealt with at all by the USCIS. Financial requirements for sponsorship are dealt with by the Dept. of State for the actual K-1 visa.

Proof of meeting in person within the 2 years prior to filing the I-129F is what should be emphasized. It is one of the main requirements for the petition. Proof of relationship is also not a requirement of the I-129F. Adding proof of relationship is 'front-loading' and is for the consulate to see for the K-1 visa interview later. The USCIS does not deal with proving relationship validity with the I-129F petition. That is again for the Dept. of State to deal with when deciding whether or not to issue a visa.

[AlinaB 43]

Everyone really needs to be careful when reading this site for information (and when giving advice). As a word of caution to future thread searchers who found this, don't just take this one thread (and all the posts in it) as true. Research, research, research, and when you get stuck, ask your own questions.

Here is an update for everyone, I sent my Dad more research from this site and others, and he agreed to at least do the I-134 but not the I-864 (which should be no problem).

PHEW!

Another question came up in the process, I actually rent out one of my houses (I own two) and this data is on my tax returns. Can I count this as income? Even with my Dad cosponsoring, I want to look as responsible and as financially stable as possible.

[KayDeeCee 4,902]

Everyone really needs to be careful when reading this site for information (and when giving advice). As a word of caution to future thread searchers who found this, don't just take this one thread (and all the posts in it) as true. Research, research, research, and when you get stuck, ask your own questions.

Here is an update for everyone, I sent my Dad more research from this site and others, and he agreed to at least do the I-134 but not the I-864 (which should be no problem).

PHEW!

Another question came up in the process, I actually rent out one of my houses (I own two) and this data is on my tax returns. Can I count this as income? Even with my Dad cosponsoring, I want to look as responsible and as financially stable as possible.

Yes, you can use the rental income. Provide the rental agreement and proof of the amount you receive each month. Combine all your incomes and list that total amount as your current income on the form.

[AlinaB 43]

Yes, you can use the rental income. Provide the rental agreement and proof of the amount you receive each month. Combine all your incomes and list that total amount as your current income on the form.

Thank you! I was thinking that would be the case. My I-134 is looking better and better.