Alleged Utah Mall Shooter Is Bosnian Refugee

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Fundamentalist Terrorism is a little different in that religion seems to be the reason/justification for the criminal act.

Murderers and rapists may or may not be religious, but the religion (or lack of) is superfluous to their crimes.

The fundamentalist Christian groups that gun down employees of abortion clinics don't represent Christianity anymore than the extremist muslims who perform terrorist acts represent Islam.

Sure, but that's not the same argument anymore.

You can't claim that individual criminals who commit criminal acts out of petty self interest are the same as an organised group of people who commit crimes in the name of a religion. In the first case, religion is irrelevant to the crime. In the second, it certainly isn't.

Edited February 18, 2007 by erekose

[Heracles 417]

If the answer is Christians because the US considers itself to be a Christian nation, than it will have to take responsibility for all the Christian murder, genocide, slavery, occupation, and street crime done by its Christian majority too.

I think I now see where Muslims seem to have their differences with the rest of the world. To a Muslim, other people are identified on a religious basis. As you stated above, Christianity is the major religion in the US. Therefore, if the US took action against someone in the middle east, people with Islamic beliefs seem to view this as a Christian attacking a Muslim. Which is definitely not the case. This misunderstanding is related to cultural differences between the two races and is probably the reason why tension is increasing for Muslims living in western nations.

Certain Islamic people have to get over talking about the past. The religious crusades occurred hundreds of years ago. I can very easily sit here and talk about the atrocities of the Otterman Empire.

Nonetheless, very few, if any, Christians are out to destroy Islam.. Yet I would say that a high percentage of Muslims actually believe the world is out to get them. All of this fear mongering and propaganda is actually generated from within the Muslim community and not the west. I am positive that 99.9% of people in the world do not sit down and scheme about the death of Muslims.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You got all of that from my post? I'd say you expanded on it more than a little, but that helps with your propaganda.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[doodlebug 3]

If the answer is Christians because the US considers itself to be a Christian nation, than it will have to take responsibility for all the Christian murder, genocide, slavery, occupation, and street crime done by its Christian majority too.

I think I now see where Muslims seem to have their differences with the rest of the world. To a Muslim, other people are identified on a religious basis. As you stated above, Christianity is the major religion in the US. Therefore, if the US took action against someone in the middle east, people with Islamic beliefs seem to view this as a Christian attacking a Muslim. Which is definitely not the case. This misunderstanding is related to cultural differences between the two races and is probably the reason why tension is increasing for Muslims living in western nations.

uh.....no. You totally twisted this around. She was trying to state that since you seem to think that the US saved the muslims in Bosnia and since you equate the US Military with Christians, then it goes both ways and you also have to say that the murders, crimes, etc. that happen because of US citizens are caused by Christians as well.

YOU are the one who is equating the US military with Christianity by your assertian that the Christians saved the muslims in Bosnia.

You got all of that from my post? I'd say you expanded on it more than a little, but that helps with your propaganda.

Fundamentalist Terrorism is a little different in that religion seems to be the reason/justification for the criminal act.

Murderers and rapists may or may not be religious, but the religion (or lack of) is superfluous to their crimes.

The fundamentalist Christian groups that gun down employees of abortion clinics don't represent Christianity anymore than the extremist muslims who perform terrorist acts represent Islam.

Sure, but that's not the same argument anymore.

You can't claim that individual criminals who commit criminal acts out of petty self interest are the same as an organised group of people who commit crimes in the name of a religion. In the first case, religion is irrelevant to the crime. In the second, it certainly isn't.

The 18 yr old kid who gunned people down was not from an organized group. That's kind of what I was getting at. He was an ordinary criminal just as all others are, but because he happened to be Muslim, it's all over the news. Why aren't all the other ordinary criminals' religious affiliations being broadcast as well?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If the answer is Christians because the US considers itself to be a Christian nation, than it will have to take responsibility for all the Christian murder, genocide, slavery, occupation, and street crime done by its Christian majority too.

I think I now see where Muslims seem to have their differences with the rest of the world. To a Muslim, other people are identified on a religious basis. As you stated above, Christianity is the major religion in the US. Therefore, if the US took action against someone in the middle east, people with Islamic beliefs seem to view this as a Christian attacking a Muslim. Which is definitely not the case. This misunderstanding is related to cultural differences between the two races and is probably the reason why tension is increasing for Muslims living in western nations.

uh.....no. You totally twisted this around. She was trying to state that since you seem to think that the US saved the muslims in Bosnia and since you equate the US Military with Christians, then it goes both ways and you also have to say that the murders, crimes, etc. that happen because of US citizens are caused by Christians as well.

YOU are the one who is equating the US military with Christianity by your assertian that the Christians saved the muslims in Bosnia.

You got all of that from my post? I'd say you expanded on it more than a little, but that helps with your propaganda.

Fundamentalist Terrorism is a little different in that religion seems to be the reason/justification for the criminal act.

Murderers and rapists may or may not be religious, but the religion (or lack of) is superfluous to their crimes.

The fundamentalist Christian groups that gun down employees of abortion clinics don't represent Christianity anymore than the extremist muslims who perform terrorist acts represent Islam.

Sure, but that's not the same argument anymore.

You can't claim that individual criminals who commit criminal acts out of petty self interest are the same as an organised group of people who commit crimes in the name of a religion. In the first case, religion is irrelevant to the crime. In the second, it certainly isn't.

The 18 yr old kid who gunned people down was not from an organized group. That's kind of what I was getting at. He was an ordinary criminal just as all others are, but because he happened to be Muslim, it's all over the news. Why aren't all the other ordinary criminals' religious affiliations being broadcast as well?

Well the reason is rather obvious I would have thought... Terrorism sells, and criminal incidents involving Muslims justifies the existing paranoia.

[Heracles 417]

uh.....no. You totally twisted this around. She was trying to state that since you seem to think that the US saved the muslims in Bosnia and since you equate the US Military with Christians, then it goes both ways and you also have to say that the murders, crimes, etc. that happen because of US citizens are caused by Christians as well.

YOU are the one who is equating the US military with Christianity by your assertian that the Christians saved the muslims in Bosnia.

The US military is a group of people fighting for the same cause. Murderers are individuals with their own twisted views and interests..

LuckyStrike probably made a sarcastic joke about the guys background.. Anyway, do we have any news about what set him off to do this??

Edited February 18, 2007 by Infidel

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Fundamentalist Terrorism is a little different in that religion seems to be the reason/justification for the criminal act.

Murderers and rapists may or may not be religious, but the religion (or lack of) is superfluous to their crimes.

The fundamentalist Christian groups that gun down employees of abortion clinics don't represent Christianity anymore than the extremist muslims who perform terrorist acts represent Islam.

Excellent point.

Fundamentalism is the problem - not religion in of itself.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Caladan 19]

For the love of little apples, you don't get your Terrorism Al-Qaeda Evil Bad Guy card when you are Muslim. There is a difference between acts committed by a violent disturbed individual and those promoted by an organized group. There's a difference between southern Christians and the Klan. There's a difference between Irish Catholics and the IRA.

The shooter here is Muslim. The media has an interest in getting people all riled up because then it sells more papers and plays to people's prejudices. The shooter here is also from a country that blew apart while he was a child. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe surviving a genocide f*cked the kid up.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For the love of little apples, you don't get your Terrorism Al-Qaeda Evil Bad Guy card when you are Muslim. There is a difference between acts committed by a violent disturbed individual and those promoted by an organized group. There's a difference between southern Christians and the Klan. There's a difference between Irish Catholics and the IRA.

The shooter here is Muslim. The media has an interest in getting people all riled up because then it sells more papers and plays to people's prejudices. The shooter here is also from a country that blew apart while he was a child. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe surviving a genocide f*cked the kid up.

[Heracles 417]

Interesting article on the topic..

West-Islam civilisations clash rejected

Yes Alex as you can see we spell words differently overseas..

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

For the love of little apples, you don't get your Terrorism Al-Qaeda Evil Bad Guy card when you are Muslim. There is a difference between acts committed by a violent disturbed individual and those promoted by an organized group. There's a difference between southern Christians and the Klan. There's a difference between Irish Catholics and the IRA.

The shooter here is Muslim. The media has an interest in getting people all riled up because then it sells more papers and plays to people's prejudices. The shooter here is also from a country that blew apart while he was a child. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe surviving a genocide f*cked the kid up.

When something like this happens do you not agree that the possibility of terrorism should be investigated? Be honest.

The media is riling people up? I haven't read in a single story that he IS Muslim. It's hinted around at but not clearly stated. Why is that? Look at how Islam reacted to some cartoons for your answer.

Political correctness will be the downfall of the west. Wake up people.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For the love of little apples, you don't get your Terrorism Al-Qaeda Evil Bad Guy card when you are Muslim. There is a difference between acts committed by a violent disturbed individual and those promoted by an organized group. There's a difference between southern Christians and the Klan. There's a difference between Irish Catholics and the IRA.

The shooter here is Muslim. The media has an interest in getting people all riled up because then it sells more papers and plays to people's prejudices. The shooter here is also from a country that blew apart while he was a child. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe surviving a genocide f*cked the kid up.

When something like this happens do you not agree that the possibility of terrorism should be investigated? Be honest.

The media is riling people up? I haven't read in a single story that he IS Muslim. It's hinted around at but not clearly stated. Why is that? Look at how Islam reacted to some cartoons for your answer.

Political correctness will be the downfall of the west. Wake up people.

Terrorist acts are politically motivated, most likely involve more than one person and have some objective no matter how senseless or ruthless the act may be.

[Heracles 417]

Political correctness will be the downfall of the west. Wake up people.

Ain't that the truth. So many groups are already taking advantage of this weakness..

[Caladan 19]

When something like this happens do you not agree that the possibility of terrorism should be investigated? Be honest.

The media is riling people up? I haven't read in a single story that he IS Muslim. It's hinted around at but not clearly stated. Why is that? Look at how Islam reacted to some cartoons for your answer.

Political correctness will be the downfall of the west. Wake up people.

Honestly? No. And it has nothing to do with political correctness, just thinking. Why? What does the assumption "He is Muslim therefore we must assume it's probably terrorism" add to the investigation? The police are still going to go through the life of a spree shooter. They'll check his home, his e-mail, his phone records. They did on the Columbine shootings. So what does the "these Muslim people are natural genetic terrorists" assumption do, except betray a boatload of ignorance?

A guy going on a shooting spree in a mall in Utah just doesn't fit the modus operandi of international terrorism. It fits the homegrown modus of people snapping and going crazy. As it turns out, you can be a crazy Muslim suicidal killer without being funded by Osama bin Laden.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

When something like this happens do you not agree that the possibility of terrorism should be investigated? Be honest.

The media is riling people up? I haven't read in a single story that he IS Muslim. It's hinted around at but not clearly stated. Why is that? Look at how Islam reacted to some cartoons for your answer.

Political correctness will be the downfall of the west. Wake up people.

Honestly? No. And it has nothing to do with political correctness, just thinking. Why? What does the assumption "He is Muslim therefore we must assume it's probably terrorism" add to the investigation? The police are still going to go through the life of a spree shooter. They'll check his home, his e-mail, his phone records. They did on the Columbine shootings. So what does the "these Muslim people are natural genetic terrorists" assumption do, except betray a boatload of ignorance?

A guy going on a shooting spree in a mall in Utah just doesn't fit the modus operandi of international terrorism. It fits the homegrown modus of people snapping and going crazy. As it turns out, you can be a crazy Muslim suicidal killer without being funded by Osama bin Laden.

There's also a difference between being politically correct and being paranoid. The assumption that a crime perpetrated by someone who happens to be a muslim would seem to be the latter IMO.