Are You Getting Screwed on eBay - Shill Bidders!

[MAui_Taylor06 0]

Are You Getting Screwed on eBay - Shill Bidders!

Revealed: how eBay sellers fix auctions .

CUSTOMERS of the internet auction site eBay are being defrauded by unscrupulous dealers who secretly bid up the price of items on sale to boost profits.

An investigation by The Sunday Times has indicated that the practice of artificially driving up prices — known as shill bidding — is widespread across the site.

Last week one of the UK’s biggest eBay sellers admitted in a taped conversation with an undercover reporter that he was prepared to use business associates to bid on his goods for him.

Our inquiries found evidence that a number of businesses — ranging from overseas property agencies to car dealerships — have placed bids on their own items using fake identities.

The cases raise questions about whether eBay, the world’s biggest auction site, is doing enough to protect consumers.

Shill bidding is against eBay rules and is illegal under the 2006 Fraud Act. However, the resulting higher prices on the site boost the value of eBay’s share of the sales.

Last November eBay changed its rules to conceal bidders’ identity — making it even more difficult for customers to see whether sellers are bidding on their own lots. Since its launch seven years ago, eBay’s UK website has attracted more than 15m customers. It sells more than 10m items at any given time.

One of the beneficiaries of the boom is Eftis Paraskevaides, a former gynaecologist, from Cambridgeshire. He has become a “Titanium PowerSeller” — one of eBay’s handful of top earners — selling more than £1.4m worth of antiquities a year on the site.

In a conversation with an undercover reporter last week, Paraskevaides claimed shill bidding was commonplace on eBay.

When the reporter asked whether he arranged for associates to bid on his own items, he replied: “Well, if I put something really expensive (up for sale) and I was concerned that it was going for nothing, I would phone a friend of mine, even a client of mine who buys from me, and say: For Christ’s sake, I sell you 100 quids’ worth of items a week . . . just put two grand on it, will you?” The reporter was posing as a seller of valuable antiquities. He inquired whether Paraskevaides could sell them on eBay and guarantee a minimum price.

He replied: “Leave it to me (laughs). Don’t call it shill bidding. Then I won’t be accused of shill bidding. Yes. I mean — I’ve got people.

“I’ve got some of my big clients who buy big items off me, I look after them. So I can get on the phone to America and say: Mr XXXX . . . you’re a multi- millionaire. You buy a hundred grand’s worth off me a year. Do me a favour would you. Just put — yeah. Exactly.”

He claimed eBay would never follow up a complaint against him for shill bidding because he generated about £15,000 a month in commission for the company. “Are they going to ban somebody who’s making them the best part of 15 grand a month? No,” he said.

After being told that he had been talking to an undercover reporter, Paraskevaides denied that he had ever shill bidded on eBay and claimed he was talking about clients who sometimes bid on expensive items if they wished to protect the price.

However The Sunday Times discovered businesses that have been bidding on their own items. One leading dealer from London admitted last week that that he had shill bidded in the past.

A spokesman for eBay said he expected that the company would now launch an investigation into Paraskevaides. Anyone caught shill bidding risks a permanent ban.

The spokesman added: “The change to the way bidder IDs are shown has already resulted in a safer environment for users.”

Source: Glenda

Reference URL: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,...2570050,00.html

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I don't like the shills.

[Savanphil 3]

He claimed eBay would never follow up a complaint against him for shill bidding because he generated about £15,000 a month in commission for the company. “Are they going to ban somebody who’s making them the best part of 15 grand a month? No,” he said.

Greedy people, sheesh

[Saddle Bronc 124]

So far, I haven't gotten stiffed at ebay.

I've bought:

• PC (CPU with DVD-RW drive, 280 GB hard-drive, 1 GB RAM, 19" LCD monitor and Dell printer)
  
• couple sets refill cartridges for printer
  
• several DVD's (Ten Commandments, The Robe, The Bible-in the beginning, The Passion, Jacob, Joseph, Pride & Prejudice)
  

Also entered failed bids on several PC hardwares (won the ones above by numbers game only), and I-pod (as I did not have time to play numbers game here, I bought one at Circuit City).

[Fandango 1,440]

shill bidding doesnt' do anything to fleece the customer...if you are willing to pay a price for something, that's the price you pay. You always have a choice whether you don't wanna bid on it.

[Robor007 0]

Shill bidding is illegal for a reason. If the seller is worried about their item going under value they should set a reserve. Of course, as the guy in the article mentioned, Ebay isn't going to ban someone who is generating that much revenue.

Edited January 29, 2007 by Robor007

[Fandango 1,440]

whether it's illegal or not, anyone buying on ebay should operate with the premise that most sellers shill bid. Ebay is not interested in protecting anyone, imo...just look at how flawed the feedback system is.

If you're willing to pay a price for something, why does a shill bidder matter?

I don't sell on ebay, but I occassionally buy....and I always bid expecting there to be shills...but at the end of the day, if I get summat for the price I want, then I'm happy...regardless!

[Robor007 0]

That is true... In the end you're only going to pay as much as an item is worth to you (shill bids or not).

My biggest gripe about Ebay is the 0 feedback bidders or bidders that have only a couple of very very small purchases. I've sold a few items where legit bidders were outbid by right at the end by someone who obviously signed up to try and rip me off. They'll win the auction (which clearly states I don't ship out of the continental US and don't sell to new/0 feedback bidders). Then they'll Email me and tell me they are willing to pay more than the auction price if I'll ship international.

A friend of mine got scammed selling his XBox. The guy who won the auction was from Canada and while he was apprehensive he agreed to ship to Canada as long as the guy paid first (not unreasonable of course). Well the guy paid via PayPal and my friend shipped it. Shortly after the funds were removed from his account as fraudulent. I thought there was protection but after a lot of going back and forth my friend ended up out $250.

[Fandango 1,440]

Ebay is a flawed system anyways.

I had 100% good fb until 2 separate incidents....

1 - I bought something for $200. I pp'd him immediately. 3 weeks & several unanswered emails later, no goods still. I finally email the guy sayin 'if I don't get a response, I'm going to have no other option than to make a pp dispute' No answer. So I disputed the claim, got my money back, left the guy bad fb, then he leaves ME bad fb 'don't deal with this buyer, highly unreasonable!!!'

yeah ok

2. I sold something. In the listing it says 'pp payment or money order' Guy sends me a check. Duh! So I email him and tell him I don't take checks...and I would send the check back to him voided and he could either make alt arrangements AFTER rec the check back, OR I'd let him out of the auction & just offer it to the next highest person. I voided the check and sent it back to him. He in turn leaves me fb calling me a 'THIEF!!!' I couldnt' believe it. I email ebay...cos neg fb is one thing, but 'thief'???? I'm no thief. I send all correspondance to them and send a scanned copy of the voided check...AND the buyer in turn leaves back up feedback saying 'can't believe she returned my check! what a scam artist!!!!' so he admitted that I actually didn't take ANYTHING...does ebay remove the word 'thief'? No sir, they did not. Why? Prolly cos I'm not a power seller or a steady seller at all...I just list the occassional item that I don't want anymore. And to this day, I have the word THIEF on my feedback when I did nothing but bend over backwards for some gormless idiot who can't read.

[Robor007 0]

Ebay is a flawed system anyways.

I had 100% good fb until 2 separate incidents....

1 - I bought something for $200. I pp'd him immediately. 3 weeks & several unanswered emails later, no goods still. I finally email the guy sayin 'if I don't get a response, I'm going to have no other option than to make a pp dispute' No answer. So I disputed the claim, got my money back, left the guy bad fb, then he leaves ME bad fb 'don't deal with this buyer, highly unreasonable!!!'

yeah ok

2. I sold something. In the listing it says 'pp payment or money order' Guy sends me a check. Duh! So I email him and tell him I don't take checks...and I would send the check back to him voided and he could either make alt arrangements AFTER rec the check back, OR I'd let him out of the auction & just offer it to the next highest person. I voided the check and sent it back to him. He in turn leaves me fb calling me a 'THIEF!!!' I couldnt' believe it. I email ebay...cos neg fb is one thing, but 'thief'???? I'm no thief. I send all correspondance to them and send a scanned copy of the voided check...AND the buyer in turn leaves back up feedback saying 'can't believe she returned my check! what a scam artist!!!!' so he admitted that I actually didn't take ANYTHING...does ebay remove the word 'thief'? No sir, they did not. Why? Prolly cos I'm not a power seller or a steady seller at all...I just list the occassional item that I don't want anymore. And to this day, I have the word THIEF on my feedback when I did nothing but bend over backwards for some gormless idiot who can't read.

Wow... That is sad. In both cases you did exactly what you should and resulted in negative feedbacks.

I had a situation where a guy bid on and won an item. I normally let a few days pass before I worry about payment. Well after 5 days I sent him an invoice. No response. After a week I sent another invoice & message by Email. Again, no response. At 10 days I sent him a 'final' request for payment saying if I didn't hear back within 5 days I would cancel the auction. He didn't respond to that so I initiated a non-paying bidder dispute with Ebay. Well, he answered that saying he bid on the auction then left town (I think it was Vegas). They don't have computers there? Anyway, I would've been fine if he had just told me he'd pay when he got back. Given that it was 2 weeks since the auction ended and I got no payment or response to 3 messages I had already left him a negative feedback at that point. If it was possible I would've switched it to neutral but apparently you can't edit/modify feedback once it's done. Oh well, as you said, it's a flawed system for sure.

[Fandango 1,440]

Ebay is a flawed system anyways.

I had 100% good fb until 2 separate incidents....

1 - I bought something for $200. I pp'd him immediately. 3 weeks & several unanswered emails later, no goods still. I finally email the guy sayin 'if I don't get a response, I'm going to have no other option than to make a pp dispute' No answer. So I disputed the claim, got my money back, left the guy bad fb, then he leaves ME bad fb 'don't deal with this buyer, highly unreasonable!!!'

yeah ok

2. I sold something. In the listing it says 'pp payment or money order' Guy sends me a check. Duh! So I email him and tell him I don't take checks...and I would send the check back to him voided and he could either make alt arrangements AFTER rec the check back, OR I'd let him out of the auction & just offer it to the next highest person. I voided the check and sent it back to him. He in turn leaves me fb calling me a 'THIEF!!!' I couldnt' believe it. I email ebay...cos neg fb is one thing, but 'thief'???? I'm no thief. I send all correspondance to them and send a scanned copy of the voided check...AND the buyer in turn leaves back up feedback saying 'can't believe she returned my check! what a scam artist!!!!' so he admitted that I actually didn't take ANYTHING...does ebay remove the word 'thief'? No sir, they did not. Why? Prolly cos I'm not a power seller or a steady seller at all...I just list the occassional item that I don't want anymore. And to this day, I have the word THIEF on my feedback when I did nothing but bend over backwards for some gormless idiot who can't read.

Wow... That is sad. In both cases you did exactly what you should and resulted in negative feedbacks.

I had a situation where a guy bid on and won an item. I normally let a few days pass before I worry about payment. Well after 5 days I sent him an invoice. No response. After a week I sent another invoice & message by Email. Again, no response. At 10 days I sent him a 'final' request for payment saying if I didn't hear back within 5 days I would cancel the auction. He didn't respond to that so I initiated a non-paying bidder dispute with Ebay. Well, he answered that saying he bid on the auction then left town (I think it was Vegas). They don't have computers there? Anyway, I would've been fine if he had just told me he'd pay when he got back. Given that it was 2 weeks since the auction ended and I got no payment or response to 3 messages I had already left him a negative feedback at that point. If it was possible I would've switched it to neutral but apparently you can't edit/modify feedback once it's done. Oh well, as you said, it's a flawed system for sure.

Isn't it amazing how eBay buyers 'go out of town' 'have computer problems' or 'have an illness in the family' everytime you're waiting for payment?

Edited January 29, 2007 by LisaD

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I hate ebay. Nuf said.

[William33 110]

I'm sure there are good folks buying and selling on there, but how can you tell? You cannot.

I would rather pay more at a regular store, than risk some online deal with unknown entities.

[Robor007 0]

Isn't it amazing how eBay buyers 'go out of town' 'have computer problems' or 'have an illness in the family' everytime you're waiting for payment?

Yep, in the end it's about responsibility. I rarely purchase anything from Ebay and when I do it's always something that's inexpensive - just in case. I usually use 'Buy It Now' and pay immediately as well. I'm too lazy to try and 'snipe' bids at the end. To many others out there using their scripts to bid at the end. I don't buy enough to bother with that stuff.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I’ve used ebay extensively, both as buyer and seller and haven’t had too many problems to speak of. On things I’ve sold I have found that some people bid way more than an item is worth, or indeed that I originally paid for it. Made about $100 on 4 DVD’s last month.

Only issue I did have was with the company itself – their customer service is non-existent, comprised almost exclusively of form emails that most of the time do not answer your questions. When I first moved here I changed my account settings (following their instructions) to change my account from a US to UK. The process was relatively easy, but then I found that after I sold an item I was being charged for seller fees (of 1.50gbp) in the UK and had no way of paying for them – as Paypal only recognized the US ebay account which said I owed nothing. I ended up emailing them over a period of weeks getting precisely nowhere, in the meantime my account was suspended and I started receiving letters from collections agencies. Only solution in the end was to have my dad write out a check and mail it to them.