Visiting each other during K-1 process (Canada-USA)

[seavan2004 0]

I've read so much on this, but nothing seems clear, and I know it won't even be clear after talking to people here. But I hope some of you are in a similar situatino and can help give some insight.

Me and my Fiancee filed our I129-F on Dec 19 (NOA1). I live north of Seattle, she lives in Vancouver, Canada. It's almost exactly a 2 hour drive (or 4 hour bus ride). I've read in some places that the foreign Fiance(e) is recommended NOT to come to the US while the K-1 is being processed... but... that's really hard to believe since we are only 2 hours apart and it's Canada.... and we are so used to being able to see each other when we want. It seems hard to believe that now, when we are so close to each other that we want to spend the rest of our lives together, that we will have to see LESS of each other. It makes no sense.

I'm sure many of you will say that this is irrelevant, and I'm sure it is... But it just doesn't make sense that she could come down to see me whenever she wanted before, but now that we are trying to follow the rules and apply for the K-1, that she can't see me anymore. Sure, I can go up there, but it's not the same. We'd like to do some area research down here around Seattle since I'm relatively new to the area too and we aren't sure where we'd like to live. Also, we need to plan the wedding stuff, which is a lot easier if she's down here in person helping me.

Also, once we get married, did I read correctly that after she applies for her Green Card (which is done, ASAP, right?) she can't even leave the country to see her family in Canada (that is, until the 2 year conditional AOS is lifted)? (again, only a 2 hour drive away). and yes, I know we can apply for a probation of some sort to stop the Green Card application from being reset, but is she really going to be cut off from her family and former home and friends for months or years? Is customs really that suspicious that they'd keep families apart like that, just for a visit? I can see if it were overseas, but isn't Canada supposed to be a bit more reasonable?

I just don't know what to think and hope I'm misreading something....

Does anyone have any relevant experience? Especially if you are from Seattle and Vancouver, which I'd imagine would have to be pretty common.

And yes, I realize that compared to a lot of people, our situation probably sounds wonderful since we are only 2 hours away. we used to be 2500 miles apart... it's been slow going (3 years now) and the thought of having to go another 6 months without her being able to visit me, and especially her being cut off from her family, unless they want to make the drive down here, is really depressing me.

Thanks.

Edited January 13, 2007 by seavan2004

[ding 1]

Hi there neighbor!

My buddy is telling me the same thing, no Thailand for 2 years for me and no visiting home for my fiance. But we'll be so happy just to be together that the 2 years (or however long) will fly by.

I flew her to see her Mom and likely will again before she comes to live here. I bet there is an 'illness' exception.

[seavan2004 0]

well. I see there's a Canada forum in the Regional section. I can check that out...

I guess after reading some things today that made me worry and remembering how ... suspicious the USA customs guy was last weekend when I drove my Fiancee from Vancouver to my place for the weekend, that I'm really stressing out. Knowing that me and her have honest intentions, but knowing that USCIS and the Border Guard have absolute power... it's just almost too much to worry about. Sure we can be safe and never have her attempt to visit me and I'll just have to make every single trip and plan everything down here by myself, but I've read conflicting info that says both to 'be safe, not sorry', or 'never cross when the K-1 is being processed' to 'it's ok, we did it every weekend'. There's no place to even get definitative information since it's always up to the actual Customs Agent.

*sigh*

[Detty2809 0]

It sucks I know...

Well, basically it's ok to visit each other as long as you can prove that you won't do any visa fraud...or..whatever. Providing the proof is usually what's hard to do. If you know how to convince the customs that your fiance would go back to her country and not just gonna get married anyways with you without waiting for the K-1 Visa, then it's alright. But, if you only have the word "Trust me, I will go back, I do not have any intention to marry him without the K-1 Visa", the custom wouldn't buy it.... But then again, since driving for 2 hours won't be a problem for you two, why don't you just try, I mean.... as long as she wouldn't really mind them telling her to go back once she gets there.... But who knows, she might get lucky, meeting a nice man at the border who'd let her in?

Or, why not just...be nice and you do the travel for now until the Visa is done?

By the way, she could apply for an AP - Advance Parole once you guys are married in the states so she could travel outside before she gets her green card.

[Carlawarla 1]

Hello and welcome to VJ!

Being from Canada, I know how ridiculous it sounds that you're only 2 hours away and you could be seeing less of your loved one! I don't know what your finance has in terms of "ties" to Canada, but she could still visit you in the US during the processing of the K-1. Never lie...that's the number one rule. Unfortunately, it's up to the individual Customs Officer at the Point of Entry to determine whether the person arriving from Canada to the US is intending to immigrate. They might see, if you have a K-1 in progress, that they're trying to circumfront the process with an intent to marry before the visa process has been completed. That being said, if your SO brings with her lots of proof that she intends to return to Canada upon the end of her visit, she might be okay. Proof of returning would include possibly, a rent/lease/mortgage agreement, a letter from her employer, anything that might indicate she still has ties to Canada.

There are lots of people who choose to not enter the US during this process, some who do. Some have been turned away at the border. Again, being honest is the best policy. Since it's only a two hour trip, and you're driving, the worst that can happen is she's not allowed to enter, and she has only a short turn-around time to get back home. Then you'll know not to try that again!

As far as returning to Canada once she enters on the K-1 visa, she's allowed to go back BUT, without Advanced Parole (applied for after marriage with the Adjustment of Status papers, and only if you want this), she won't be allowed re-entry into the US. She'd have to stay here again in Canada, and you'd have to go through a similar process for a spouse to enter the US. Lots of paperwork, waiting and money again!

Looking at timelines, some people have received their Advance Parole about 3 months after applying, which is after their marriage. With this in hand, she could return to Canada for a visit and gain re-entry to the US. Otherwise, she'd have to wait until she has her greencard. Either way, it will not be 2 years. More like 4 months or so? Some people have waited a long time to get their greencard, however, those circumstances appear to be when people are caught up in name checks etc.

This is a lot of information at once, I know. Please read the guides and FAQ's above, and get to know how these visa's work. As well, feel free to post questions in the Canada forum. There are so many helpful people that can maybe answer your questions from a "Canadian" perspective. Invite your SO from Canada to join this site, as she might have questions and thoughts to share from that perspective as well.

I should add from personal experience, that I didn't make any attempts to see my fiance in the US from the start of our journey. He came up here to Canada. No, it wasn't always ideal, however, it was only for 6 months, and we didn't want to take the chance, particularly with planes, of me not being able to enter the US. The heartbreak would have been terrible. Small price to pay him only coming up here, for our lifetime of happiness once I arrive in the US forever!

Hope some of this helps answers your questions.

As well, feel free to pm me should you have anything else.

Carla

[Caladan 19]

I totally hear ya. My friends' and family's reaction throughout this whole process has been to insist it isn't necessary because 'you didn't even have a passport when you first went up there.'

Carla's got it. It's not an automatic denial, or even automatically problematic, and it's only a two-hour drive. Bring proof of strong ties to Canada, and just drive through like she normally does. If it's a problem, then you go visit her for a while. The nice thing about driving is that it's comparatively cheap.

Once you're married, you can file for Advance Parole, which will allow her to re-enter the U.S. if she leaves. Roughly 90 days to process once filed, so she'll be stuck in the U.S. for a while, but not for two years.

[MPGGPM 0]

well. I see there's a Canada forum in the Regional section. I can check that out...

I guess after reading some things today that made me worry and remembering how ... suspicious the USA customs guy was last weekend when I drove my Fiancee from Vancouver to my place for the weekend, that I'm really stressing out. Knowing that me and her have honest intentions, but knowing that USCIS and the Border Guard have absolute power... it's just almost too much to worry about. Sure we can be safe and never have her attempt to visit me and I'll just have to make every single trip and plan everything down here by myself, but I've read conflicting info that says both to 'be safe, not sorry', or 'never cross when the K-1 is being processed' to 'it's ok, we did it every weekend'. There's no place to even get definitative information since it's always up to the actual Customs Agent.

*sigh*

Yeah.....it's almost enough to drive one nuts. You do everything right, and because of it, visiting each other becomes even harder.

You pretty much summed it up in your last statement when you said it's "up to the actual custims agent". There is a post in this same K-1 forum asking about the same......and someone said that her spouse came to visit by plane, had "strong" proof of ties, and a return ticket. They turned him around and he had to fly back. Must have been awful.

I myself, had my wife be fortunate to visit me from Turkey 4 times......and never had any problem. Never had to show any paperwork or "ties".

I think it's all just a matter of "luck of the draw". You just hope they see the right customs agent.

As you are learning now.....there is NO way to "prove" you will return. A customs agent may see a person's rental agreement, job letter, etc.....and all that is to them is a piece of paper. It does not mean a person won't remain in the USA. A person may very well just stay in the USA, and never go back to their former country , job, and place of residence. Having those papers may help...but they don't prove something that may occur in the "future". Someone may want to stay in the USA so badly and stay with their spouse, they may just decide to give all those things up. (quit job, break their lease...just to stay).

You will just have to decide whether to take the chance.

I will say that were it me......I would. 2 hours away is not far at all, when you compare it to some of our spouses traveling 13-14 hours overseas. Worst thing that will happen is you blow a few bucks of gas and and your time traveling back. That's compared to others who have to maybe wait hours at an airport for a return flight, alone, spend another long flight returning home overseas........and losing around $1,000 of a roundtrip ticket. I think being only 2 hours away, your in a much better position than many of us.

Good luck.

[ARNGWFE 0]

seavan,

My fiance (now my husband) and I were in exactly the same shoes (he's from Seattle, I'm from Vancouver) so let me tell you about our experience.

My fiance works shiftwork as an RN whereas I had a regular 9-5 so it was much easier for him to visit me than it was for me to visit him. From August '05 when we mailed off our petition until Feb '06 when I moved down, he must have crossed the border on average three times a week to come and see me. Each time he'd cross the Canadian border he'd say he was going to visit his fiancee. He'd get the standard questions (how long are you staying, are you bringing any gifts), and once or twice they asked him which one of us was going to be moving, and he told them that I would be moving to the States. They let him in no problem. The Canadian border agents never asked him for additional evidence which is good, because he never brought any! But he is a member of the National Guard so all he needed to show for evidence was his military ID and I'm sure that would have proved a strong tie to the US Coming back, well, of course since he's a USC, they let him back in with no problem.

I crossed the border only twice during the process, both times before the visa was issued. I told them I was visiting my fiance. They asked me who was moving I told them I was, and that we had applied for a K1 visa. Both times they let me in no problem. I always brought my business cards and a personal letter from my direct supervisor that confirmed my position and stated my company was aware that I was engaged to a USC and they were aware that I had applied for a K1 visa and had the intention of moving once it was approved. I was never asked for additional evidence.

Our visa was issued Dec '05 and while I didn't try and visit the US after it was issued until I moved in February, when I received the visa, the consulate advised me that while it was a visa for a one-time entry, I could still cross into the US without activating the visa. However, because the decision would have been in the hands of the border officer to let me in or not, I played it safe and didn't chance it.

I wouldn't worry about crossing the border during the process for either you or your fiance. Just be completely honest, bring evidence to show ties to your country, and accept the fact that the final decision rests in the hands of the border officer you're faced with that day and there's always the possibility of being turned back.

Good luck! If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.

Jen

[misa 2]

seavan2004, it's enough to drive you crazy huh?

You're fortunate though that you have the option of going to see her in Vancouver as it's a relatively short drive. I know it's not ideal though for the reasons you listed. Many people don't have a problem at the POE but some people do even if they are showing they are doing things the legal way with filing for K1 and showing proof of ties.

Luck of the draw, but always have her bring proof of ties to Canada. As much as it sucks, and I can't believe I'm saying this because it's something I am always worried about, is that they turn her away at the border. Also, always be honest at the border too because if you don't, it could come back to bite you both in the ###. Be straight with them, answer their questions but don't give them more than they ask.

Someone here in another thread had a good example of that, answering their questions without telling them anymore. The correct answer to, "do you know the time?" is "yes".

Good luck!

[Autumnchik 6]

I hear ya! Seems crazy that visiting one another could become a problem now that you are in this process. You have gotten some very good advice so far. If your fiance attempts to visit you, have her bring as much proof of ties to Canada as she can. It really does depend on the individual border guard and their interpretation of the K-1 visa. My fiance lives in Vancouver, I live in New Hampshire. He was denied entry once ("allowed to withdraw his petition for entry") when he attempted to fly out of the Vancouver airport. The guard there told him that he didn't show enough proof of ties to Canada and that we were doing everything correctly in applying for the K-1, but that because of that, he is viewed as an intended immigrant and cannot visit. After that experience, I called several different border crossings and spoke to supervisors to try to gain a better perspective if visitation would be possible. I got many different answers! Seems like every guard interprets the K-1 visa process in a different way. By the way, my fiance was allowed to visit me for the Christmas holidays. That particular supervisor that we dealt with felt that he is allowed to visit while we are waiting for K-1 approval. We were also better prepared to show ties to Canada. Good luck!

[Mags 112]

It is perfectly all right to visit your fiance(e) whilst going through the K-1 process. I come from the UK and visited mine twice in the USA. It IS recommended though that you bring evidence of ties to your home country. I brought up to date bank account records, a few recent utility bills, a letter from my employer saying I was still employed with them full time and my mortgage statement.

As it was, I wasn't asked for any of these, but SOME are. People have been turned away from POE due to not having enough evidence but the majority come through with no problems.

Plenty of Vjers have visited their fiances during the process.

Edited January 13, 2007 by mags

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Ok - more personal experience.

I used to live in Chatham, Ontario - an hour's drive from Detroit, and my fiance lived in Atlanta. We became engaged May 2003, filed for the I-129f in June 2003 and we visited every 4 to 6 weeks, alternating back and forth between him flying to Detroit and me picking him up, or me driving to Detroit and flying to Atlanta until our petition was approved he end of December (he was with me in Canada at the time, actually). I would cross the border virtually every month or so. I carried with me a packet of information that showed my ties to Canada - employment letter and information, car ownership and insurance; renter's insurance; rent receipts (no lease); ongoing utility bills (heat, hydro, cable, telephone, internet); vet bills for my cats; health claims with cheques owed to me; and a complete copy of our petition. I was pulled into secondary twice - once without my packet as I was only going to the airport and didn't think I would need it but I had a copy of his flight itinerary so they let me in. They went through the packet thoroughly but when they saw the fiancee petition they closed it up and let me in. So, yes, if you and your fiancee prepare a packet of information and keep it regularly up to date (new bills and invoices; etc.) you should be able to reassure the border guard that you are only visiting while awaiting the proper immigration permission to enter and stay. The caveat is that the border guard is the one who makes that decision and he is the one you need to reassure that the visit is indeed a visit.

Her K-1 visa is good for a one time entry for your fiancee and her belongings in order to get married within 90 days. Once she is in, she no longer has a valid re-entry permit so cannot safely leave and return until she has either her greencard (conditional green card is fine for travel, don't worry), or an Advance Parole which is permission to leave and return. Advance Paroles are usually processed within 90 days or so after the receipt of the Adjustment of Status application, and if there is an emergency can often be expedited within a matter of hours or a day through a local immigration office, so that is reassuring.

Good luck to the two of you and I hope you have a smooth and speedy visa journey.

[MissStacey 1]

I am in Canada and my Husband in the States. I have recently talked to Customs at the Edmonton Airport to see if they will allow me to go down to visit Mel and stay for Mardi Gras. He was very nice and told me to write a letter to him telling him everything, where we are in the process, etc. That is done and right now I am waiting to hear back from him to find out if they will allow me to go.

[mercy 1]

Like everyone else said, she can visit you during the process. I crossed back and forth several times, and spent many months staying here while we waited for the K1 to be approved. I never had a problem crossing, but she will probably want to bring ties to Canada (lease, bills, letter from work, proof she goes to school, etc) with her.

Once she has the greencard, she can visit Canada whenever she wants, regardless of the two year condition. It's while the application is pending that she has to stay in the US, unless you apply for and receive advance parole. Good luck with your journey.

[seavan2004 0]

Thanks for the answers so far.

It's not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I've got some better perspective now. I do appreciate that we are only 2 hours away, but like a few of you said, it really does suck that the closer we get emotionally, the more complicated it gets physically.

I have a question about the Advance Parole. How many trips is it good for? Or do you have to apply for it (and wait 3 months) every time you want to leave? Meaning, for holidays and birthdays for her family, we'd have to apply 3+ months in advance? Can you apply for multiple APs to cover visits in close succession?

And after the AOS adjustment 2 years after we get married, she's essentially allowed to travel whenever she wants, right?

Anyway, Thanks again