The Kyiv Beat......

[RichardS 0]

YOU ARE SO 1 MILLION PERCENT CORRECT zqt3344!

There literally is a beer stand, money changer AND casino on EVERY CORNER!

The average salary does range between $100-$400 US. My wife visited her old employer in October and the staff there has had a "significant (paid under the table) pay raise" which brings them closer to $300 per month ... up from $100 USD per month! HOWEVER, those NEW $1 Mil or $500K flats are not for the average person.

Also, There were so many more cars on the road (...er sidewalk) this year than ever before. And I even saw a few traffic jams to boot!

I am always appalled at the poor babushkas who are perched at the entrance and exit of every metro station. They have a single apple or a single mellon to sell ... just trying to get by to the very next day! So heart-wrenching!

When in Kyiv, I always make it a point to visit the Frolovsky Monestary in Pidol. Outside of the monestary itself are typically camped about 15-20 elderly or infirmed people who are begging for money. Before I go ... and I have been there 6 times now ... I stop at a bank and get about 50 notes, all two hryvnia, to distribute to the poor. I make sure that each and every individual gets one of the two hryvnia notes. This is not a lot of money to us ... about $20 US in total ... however it is one small ways that I always try to thank God for all of the blessings that I have received. Also, I use the remainer of the notes to give to the elderly and infirmed who are camped outside or even inside the various metro stations. If I run out of hryvnia, I go get another 25 or so bank notes for distribution.

I can't even begin to speak about the massive amount and proliferation of corruption which abounds there.

The rich get richer adn the poor get poorer! My in-laws BOTH receive a meager pension from the State and how they get by is a complete mystery to me!

[USSR 1]

I got to experience this treatment with a taxi ride down the Ai-petri mountain in Yalta last summer with a 1950 Volga! it is was insane. Here I Am going down this mountain with this young driver going as fast as he can listening to that Ukraine/Russian music as loud as he can, tires squalling, going around curves that were blind and passing people and only honking as he did so, I thought I was going to meet my maker right then and there, and my wife and her family thought nothing of it at all. It is insane.

Have had that very same taxi ride down Ai-petri mountain. Now I always make sure I take the lift back down.

Don

[zqt3344 21]

I got to experience this treatment with a taxi ride down the Ai-petri mountain in Yalta last summer with a 1950 Volga! it is was insane. Here I Am going down this mountain with this young driver going as fast as he can listening to that Ukraine/Russian music as loud as he can, tires squalling, going around curves that were blind and passing people and only honking as he did so, I thought I was going to meet my maker right then and there, and my wife and her family thought nothing of it at all. It is insane.

Have had that very same taxi ride down Ai-petri mountain. Now I always make sure I take the lift back down.

Don

Don

So you enjoy that ride, I did not, my in laws (my lovely sister in law that is), which I think she qualifies as the type of woman you described to me earlier that you found to be mostly from Ukraine or Russia,(how they act that is) and she did not want to wait in line for the tram down the mountain, so instead she raises hell with my finance and everyone else and demands to go now in a car back down, and negotiates this cab ride down the mountain. I regret that, I wanted to ride that tram, especially since we had started early that morning and climbed that mountain! Yes we climbed that mountain from the bottom all the way to the top and came out right in front of the white building for the tram station. I felt so sorry for my sister in laws husband, that poor guy, total city boy, was struggling big time trying to keep up climbing that mountain and his wife is yelling at him and on his ### to hurry up and come on all the time, I ended up carrying his back pack for him. You know Don, the more I think of it, my sister in law is just like what you described to me about your observation of the women you have meet there in past, I know I am so damn glad she lives 5 states AWAY FROM US! And to think she has already started calling my wife demanding that we come visit her for the holidays, and I am like get real there is no way I am driving or flying or taking a train or bus or whatever to spend my time around her whiney nagging manipulative self! HAHA Don you are right by gosh what you told me earlier about some women there, I forgot all about my very own sister in law! The Manipulator Deluxe.

How did you like all those village people up on top trying to hawk and sell you everything under the sun. From the people cooking a pot stew out in the open(like I am going to buy that ####### or eat it with their dirty little paws all over it) to those people smoking their hashish to all the nasty filthy animals all over the place they want you to take a picture with, what amazes me is where do they get all those exotic animals at, no telling I better not ask. I mean those animals may be black market diseased stuff brought in on a boat or ship on Black Sea from Africa or China or wherever! AHAH Like they have real good control over things there. I mean kids and people were getting their pictures taking with those nasty things. Then all those vintage looking cars and motorcycles and the costumes peole dress up in and have makeover and then take a picture, I just shake my head and laugh. And then the tying of all those pieces of cloth or ribbons to tree branches! THat is some screwed up Ukraine tradition, their form of graffiti I suppose to leave their mark that they were there like Kilroy! Those poor trees are dying from people pilfering them all time. AND I never saw one piece of wildlife over there at all, maybe an occasional bird is all, nothing else.

Speaking of which I used to love watching all those poor old pensioner men going down to the Dneper river dropping a line in it and fishing for hours and no one ever caught anything, I cannot remember seeing anyone ever catch a fish there or even have a stringer of fish! And then what was really pleasant was watching people bring their dogs out to drop a load in the grass or sidewalk so you could dodge it when you went walking by. And I never saw very many ships or boats out on the rivers or Black Sea compared to what I see here in USA, just wondered where everyone was. And how lovely to look across the Dneper and see all the factories across the river belching out black and gray smoke nonstop all over the place.

And how about all those Lenin statues all over the place, I mean everywhere even to this day, he is like their little spiritual Godfather leader still.

Here is another lovely scene I can never forget, few summers ago we were visiting Odessa, and they had a violent thunderstorm come through at night and knock down trees all over the place across the courtyard road in apartment complex, well it took about two weeks for someone to finally get there and remove that tree, and when they did, it was a crew of about 3 women(pensioners or poor people out of a movie type look) one old man using a chainsaw to cut up the tree, and then perched inside a climate controlled AC cab of the tractor is this young guy in his mid twenties just sitting there watching those old women pick up the wood and place it in the trailer. NOW what is wrong with this picture, I mean I Was just amazed, those poor little women were working so hard and so was the old man and the young guy is not even making an effort to go out and help.

AND how about everytime you get ready to throw away a glass bottle and those little old pensioner women are just circling you waiting to get that bottle and then they fight and argue over it, I mean it makes me just so sad for them but then mad as hell at their uncaring government.

I hear what RichardS says about feeling for all those people that are needing help or begging for money, it is so sad. I do not blame you for trying to help them or give what you can.

[zqt3344 21]

YOU ARE SO 1 MILLION PERCENT CORRECT zqt3344!

There literally is a beer stand, money changer AND casino on EVERY CORNER!

The average salary does range between $100-$400 US. My wife visited her old employer in October and the staff there has had a "significant (paid under the table) pay raise" which brings them closer to $300 per month ... up from $100 USD per month! HOWEVER, those NEW $1 Mil or $500K flats are not for the average person.

Also, There were so many more cars on the road (...er sidewalk) this year than ever before. And I even saw a few traffic jams to boot!

I am always appalled at the poor babushkas who are perched at the entrance and exit of every metro station. They have a single apple or a single mellon to sell ... just trying to get by to the very next day! So heart-wrenching!

When in Kyiv, I always make it a point to visit the Frolovsky Monestary in Pidol. Outside of the monestary itself are typically camped about 15-20 elderly or infirmed people who are begging for money. Before I go ... and I have been there 6 times now ... I stop at a bank and get about 50 notes, all two hryvnia, to distribute to the poor. I make sure that each and every individual gets one of the two hryvnia notes. This is not a lot of money to us ... about $20 US in total ... however it is one small ways that I always try to thank God for all of the blessings that I have received. Also, I use the remainer of the notes to give to the elderly and infirmed who are camped outside or even inside the various metro stations. If I run out of hryvnia, I go get another 25 or so bank notes for distribution.

I can't even begin to speak about the massive amount and proliferation of corruption which abounds there.

The rich get richer adn the poor get poorer! My in-laws BOTH receive a meager pension from the State and how they get by is a complete mystery to me!

RichardS you are 1 million percent correct about what you say also, right on. Sad how things can be so harsh and cruel there. It is so bad the corruption and how it is everywhere on every level and how you have to "tip" payoff or bribe all the time just to get basic ordinary average service we are used to here in the USA. And nothing is reliable except the trains, you can set your watch by them.

I agree the rich get richer and the poor get ripped off big time. And it is so unfair, every other day they are running back and forth to the grocery stores to buy food, no one hardly eats out at restuarants. Everyone takes a walk to the park or lake or river, that is their cruising or driving or way to get out of the house and they head to the parks to make out and kiss each other, I mean you go to the park and people are all over each other on the park benches all the time.

The other thing I notice is how there are no trash cans anywhere hardly for people to throw away trash, so instead they just throw stuff down all over the place and then here come those little old pensioner ladies to pick up the empty beer bottles, to take and go sell them I suppose.

I still wonder though are there that many Ukrainians doing that well in Ukraine that they can afford those $100K, $200K, $300K, $400 or 500K or $1 million plus stuff high rise flats in the cities, I mean who??? how?? and what do they do?? It is startling though because they are building them, and I must say I am not too impressed with workmanship or construction of homes or apartments there at all, the finished product is usually very rough and just not nice.

And I love how when I ask why are hot water pipes all over the place above the ground? why not bury them? AND I get the reply of well why ask why? That is the way it is, and I am like why? I mean no one questions things or seems to care or try to make a difference or change.

Oh and this always amazed me, everyone of them has a cell phone, I mean and they are on those things talking nonstop with Kievstar! AHAH I am like wait a minute you people barely get by but you all have a new top of the line cell phone and call one another all the time, it is just amazing to me, illogical.

Not complaining just my observations when there, I mean I just sit and ponder sometimes how they do it.

[RichardS 0]

PRAVDA! PRAVDA!! PRAVDA!!!! ZQT3344

Related to the water pipe issue ....

When I started (and tried) to give my wife driving lessons, and I told her to put on the brake (before she crashed into a tree) ... her immediate response was to ask me "Why?" rather than to put on the brake! Three times I (progressively louder) asked her to apply the brake and each time I got a "Why?" so I threw-on the emergency brake myself before we crashed!! LOL LOL

The Ukrainian Cell Phone Business is WAAAYYY TOOO MUCH! You are so right that EVERYOE has a NEW TOP-OF-THE-LINE cell phone and they live on the damn thing! Over there "you pay if you call out" but incoming calls are free! ALSO .... the past 2 years (but NOT in 2007) the Kreschatyk was full of "octopus men' (as I called them). These were guys who had a large battery pack on their back and about a dozen cell phones extending from the pack. You would pay the guy a few hryvnia to use his phone... and ... if 4 or 5 people were "attached" and making a call .. the guy looked like he head a million arms! It was VERY FUNNY TO WATCH!

The other big thing on Kreshatyk was a zillion "Mike Tyson Boxing Machines." I never paid to use them but I guess that you punched something and it registered the strength of your punch! The noise from these things was horrific as well! So glad they are NOW gone!

Another "favorite" item of mine are the lifts / elevators in the apartment buildings! The damn things are 4 million years old, have 2592908239 dead flies all over the floor AND you (at least I) pray to God when I ride them that they are NOT immediately crashing into the basement! I think that they may NEVER have been inspected after installation OR they were last examined immediately following WWII!

Trash cans??? Do they really have those things in Kyiv? Never recall seeing one?

Later.....

YOU ARE SO 1 MILLION PERCENT CORRECT zqt3344!

There literally is a beer stand, money changer AND casino on EVERY CORNER!

The average salary does range between $100-$400 US. My wife visited her old employer in October and the staff there has had a "significant (paid under the table) pay raise" which brings them closer to $300 per month ... up from $100 USD per month! HOWEVER, those NEW $1 Mil or $500K flats are not for the average person.

Also, There were so many more cars on the road (...er sidewalk) this year than ever before. And I even saw a few traffic jams to boot!

I am always appalled at the poor babushkas who are perched at the entrance and exit of every metro station. They have a single apple or a single mellon to sell ... just trying to get by to the very next day! So heart-wrenching!

When in Kyiv, I always make it a point to visit the Frolovsky Monestary in Pidol. Outside of the monestary itself are typically camped about 15-20 elderly or infirmed people who are begging for money. Before I go ... and I have been there 6 times now ... I stop at a bank and get about 50 notes, all two hryvnia, to distribute to the poor. I make sure that each and every individual gets one of the two hryvnia notes. This is not a lot of money to us ... about $20 US in total ... however it is one small ways that I always try to thank God for all of the blessings that I have received. Also, I use the remainer of the notes to give to the elderly and infirmed who are camped outside or even inside the various metro stations. If I run out of hryvnia, I go get another 25 or so bank notes for distribution.

I can't even begin to speak about the massive amount and proliferation of corruption which abounds there.

The rich get richer adn the poor get poorer! My in-laws BOTH receive a meager pension from the State and how they get by is a complete mystery to me!

RichardS you are 1 million percent correct about what you say also, right on. Sad how things can be so harsh and cruel there. It is so bad the corruption and how it is everywhere on every level and how you have to "tip" payoff or bribe all the time just to get basic ordinary average service we are used to here in the USA. And nothing is reliable except the trains, you can set your watch by them.

I agree the rich get richer and the poor get ripped off big time. And it is so unfair, every other day they are running back and forth to the grocery stores to buy food, no one hardly eats out at restuarants. Everyone takes a walk to the park or lake or river, that is their cruising or driving or way to get out of the house and they head to the parks to make out and kiss each other, I mean you go to the park and people are all over each other on the park benches all the time.

The other thing I notice is how there are no trash cans anywhere hardly for people to throw away trash, so instead they just throw stuff down all over the place and then here come those little old pensioner ladies to pick up the empty beer bottles, to take and go sell them I suppose.

I still wonder though are there that many Ukrainians doing that well in Ukraine that they can afford those $100K, $200K, $300K, $400 or 500K or $1 million plus stuff high rise flats in the cities, I mean who??? how?? and what do they do?? It is startling though because they are building them, and I must say I am not too impressed with workmanship or construction of homes or apartments there at all, the finished product is usually very rough and just not nice.

And I love how when I ask why are hot water pipes all over the place above the ground? why not bury them? AND I get the reply of well why ask why? That is the way it is, and I am like why? I mean no one questions things or seems to care or try to make a difference or change.

Oh and this always amazed me, everyone of them has a cell phone, I mean and they are on those things talking nonstop with Kievstar! AHAH I am like wait a minute you people barely get by but you all have a new top of the line cell phone and call one another all the time, it is just amazing to me, illogical.

Not complaining just my observations when there, I mean I just sit and ponder sometimes how they do it.

[USSR 1]

Guys,

Let's not turn this into a "Bash Ukraine" thread. While there are a lot of things that people in the West take for granted, that are either missing or done entirely differently, there are also some qualities in Ukrainian society that this country could sorely use.

Don

[zqt3344 21]

Pozdravlyaiu RichardS!

You have been to Ukraine for certain! AHAHA it is funny I am laughing right now about all you say, that is so true, WHY? WHy ask why? ANd then bam the tree is hit! Sounds like my wife asking me why instead of just doing it and then all of a sudden she is like oh no I see sorry! AHHAH typical but cute.

Take it easy see you later.

PRAVDA! PRAVDA!! PRAVDA!!!! ZQT3344

Related to the water pipe issue ....

When I started (and tried) to give my wife driving lessons, and I told her to put on the brake (before she crashed into a tree) ... her immediate response was to ask me "Why?" rather than to put on the brake! Three times I (progressively louder) asked her to apply the brake and each time I got a "Why?" so I threw-on the emergency brake myself before we crashed!! LOL LOL

The Ukrainian Cell Phone Business is WAAAYYY TOOO MUCH! You are so right that EVERYOE has a NEW TOP-OF-THE-LINE cell phone and they live on the damn thing! Over there "you pay if you call out" but incoming calls are free! ALSO .... the past 2 years (but NOT in 2007) the Kreschatyk was full of "octopus men' (as I called them). These were guys who had a large battery pack on their back and about a dozen cell phones extending from the pack. You would pay the guy a few hryvnia to use his phone... and ... if 4 or 5 people were "attached" and making a call .. the guy looked like he head a million arms! It was VERY FUNNY TO WATCH!

The other big thing on Kreshatyk was a zillion "Mike Tyson Boxing Machines." I never paid to use them but I guess that you punched something and it registered the strength of your punch! The noise from these things was horrific as well! So glad they are NOW gone!

Another "favorite" item of mine are the lifts / elevators in the apartment buildings! The damn things are 4 million years old, have 2592908239 dead flies all over the floor AND you (at least I) pray to God when I ride them that they are NOT immediately crashing into the basement! I think that they may NEVER have been inspected after installation OR they were last examined immediately following WWII!

Trash cans??? Do they really have those things in Kyiv? Never recall seeing one?

Later.....

YOU ARE SO 1 MILLION PERCENT CORRECT zqt3344!

There literally is a beer stand, money changer AND casino on EVERY CORNER!

The average salary does range between $100-$400 US. My wife visited her old employer in October and the staff there has had a "significant (paid under the table) pay raise" which brings them closer to $300 per month ... up from $100 USD per month! HOWEVER, those NEW $1 Mil or $500K flats are not for the average person.

Also, There were so many more cars on the road (...er sidewalk) this year than ever before. And I even saw a few traffic jams to boot!

I am always appalled at the poor babushkas who are perched at the entrance and exit of every metro station. They have a single apple or a single mellon to sell ... just trying to get by to the very next day! So heart-wrenching!

When in Kyiv, I always make it a point to visit the Frolovsky Monestary in Pidol. Outside of the monestary itself are typically camped about 15-20 elderly or infirmed people who are begging for money. Before I go ... and I have been there 6 times now ... I stop at a bank and get about 50 notes, all two hryvnia, to distribute to the poor. I make sure that each and every individual gets one of the two hryvnia notes. This is not a lot of money to us ... about $20 US in total ... however it is one small ways that I always try to thank God for all of the blessings that I have received. Also, I use the remainer of the notes to give to the elderly and infirmed who are camped outside or even inside the various metro stations. If I run out of hryvnia, I go get another 25 or so bank notes for distribution.

I can't even begin to speak about the massive amount and proliferation of corruption which abounds there.

The rich get richer adn the poor get poorer! My in-laws BOTH receive a meager pension from the State and how they get by is a complete mystery to me!

RichardS you are 1 million percent correct about what you say also, right on. Sad how things can be so harsh and cruel there. It is so bad the corruption and how it is everywhere on every level and how you have to "tip" payoff or bribe all the time just to get basic ordinary average service we are used to here in the USA. And nothing is reliable except the trains, you can set your watch by them.

I agree the rich get richer and the poor get ripped off big time. And it is so unfair, every other day they are running back and forth to the grocery stores to buy food, no one hardly eats out at restuarants. Everyone takes a walk to the park or lake or river, that is their cruising or driving or way to get out of the house and they head to the parks to make out and kiss each other, I mean you go to the park and people are all over each other on the park benches all the time.

The other thing I notice is how there are no trash cans anywhere hardly for people to throw away trash, so instead they just throw stuff down all over the place and then here come those little old pensioner ladies to pick up the empty beer bottles, to take and go sell them I suppose.

I still wonder though are there that many Ukrainians doing that well in Ukraine that they can afford those $100K, $200K, $300K, $400 or 500K or $1 million plus stuff high rise flats in the cities, I mean who??? how?? and what do they do?? It is startling though because they are building them, and I must say I am not too impressed with workmanship or construction of homes or apartments there at all, the finished product is usually very rough and just not nice.

And I love how when I ask why are hot water pipes all over the place above the ground? why not bury them? AND I get the reply of well why ask why? That is the way it is, and I am like why? I mean no one questions things or seems to care or try to make a difference or change.

Oh and this always amazed me, everyone of them has a cell phone, I mean and they are on those things talking nonstop with Kievstar! AHAH I am like wait a minute you people barely get by but you all have a new top of the line cell phone and call one another all the time, it is just amazing to me, illogical.

Not complaining just my observations when there, I mean I just sit and ponder sometimes how they do it.

[zqt3344 21]

Guys,

Let's not turn this into a "Bash Ukraine" thread. While there are a lot of things that people in the West take for granted, that are either missing or done entirely differently, there are also some qualities in Ukrainian society that this country could sorely use.

Don

Privet

Don Don Don come on that is not what it is, we are just having a good laugh and remembering some of our first impressions or experiences in Ukraine. If a person cannot laugh at life and it's experiences then it shall be a miserable one indeed, no harm intended to Ukraine, just sharing real actual experiences there that make us all wonder why or how they do it so relax, we all liked it there or we would not have went there or went back again and again and again.

And you are surely right, there are many things here in USA that are gone or missing now that we could use here that is for certain.

Take it easy.

[RichardS 0]

Hello Don:

As ZQT3344 has previously noted, this is NOT a BASH Ukraine thread. If you think so you are sorely mistaken. This is nothing more than true OBSERVATIONS of daily Ukrainian life and society. Nothing is mis-stated and nothing is reported out of context.

I have been to Ukraine 6 times now and have booked flights again for next year. Personally, I LOVE UKRAINE and it's people. I have made life-long friends there above and beyond my relatives. I have great fondness for the country and its people and desire nothing more than wealth and prosperity for its citizens and its future.

There are plenty of things we Americans do that cause us to laugh at ourselves - as well as causing other nationalities laugh at us as well.

Take it easy...

RichardS

[Mariya 0]

Q # 3 in DS-230 is asking about my name in Native Alphabet. I switch to Ukrainian language on my keyboard - but it won't type anything in the form.

Should I just write that in later when i print out the form?

[payxibka 10,044]

Q # 3 in DS-230 is asking about my name in Native Alphabet. I switch to Ukrainian language on my keyboard - but it won't type anything in the form.

Should I just write that in later when i print out the form?

Perfectly acceptable

[RickOlechka 0]

Q # 3 in DS-230 is asking about my name in Native Alphabet. I switch to Ukrainian language on my keyboard - but it won't type anything in the form.

Should I just write that in later when i print out the form?

There is a way to fix it by installing Adobe language support packet ( my Adobe did it automatically, just make sure u are connected to the internet ), but if u will write it into the form with ur hands - its will be good too. I did it with another question that i couldnt type in and its worked.

[John and Luda 0]

Heading to Kyiv on Saturday, arriving Sunday afternoon to see my lady. Last time I was there was the first week in September and the weather was pleasant. The low on Sunday is supposed to be 12 dgrees and 10 degrees on Monday. I live in the Dallas area where it's been in the 80s lately. Needless to say, I'm in for some serious climate shock. Anyone else ever traveled to Ukraine this time of year?

[John and Luda 0]

Heading to Kyiv on Saturday, arriving Sunday afternoon to see my lady. Last time I was there was the first week in September and the weather was pleasant. The low on Sunday is supposed to be 12 dgrees and 10 degrees on Monday. I live in the Dallas area where it's been in the 80s lately. Needless to say, I'm in for some serious climate shock. Anyone else ever traveled to Ukraine this time of year?

#######? Oops, the flowers are supposed to Fs for Farinheight. I have know idea what I clicked to get the roses to appear. LOL

[zqt3344 21]

Q # 3 in DS-230 is asking about my name in Native Alphabet. I switch to Ukrainian language on my keyboard - but it won't type anything in the form.

Should I just write that in later when i print out the form?

Mariya:

Write it in later. We had to do the same thing on our DS-230, since keyboard would not type it or print it and it is acceptable to write it in.

ZQT3344