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mawilson

interesting Al Jazeera(?) video

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:unsure: A sensible Muslim voice ? If you mean the lady is " the sensible muslim voice", the lady claims she is not muslim, not christian, not jew. She claimed that herself. Edited by tom&tata

I-130

Jun 28 2004 : Received at NSC

Oct 25 2004 : Transferred to CSC

Oct 29 2004 : Received at CSC

Nov 8 2004 : Received response from CSC that my file is being requested & review will be done

Nov 10 2004 : Email & online status Approved

Nov 15 2004 : NOA 2 in mail

Dec 16 2004 : NVC assigns case number

Dec 20 2004 : NVC sent DS 3032 to beneficiary, copy of DS 3032 & I-864 fee bill to petitioner

Jan 3 2005 : Petitioner received copy of DS 3032 and I-864 fee bill. Post-marked Dec 23rd.

Jan 11 2005 : Beneficiary received DS 3032 in Indonesia

Jan 31 2005 : Sent DS 3032 to NVC

Feb 8, 2005 : NVC received DS 3032

Feb 21, 2005 : IV fee generated

Feb 25, 2005 : Sent I-864 fee bill

Feb 28, 2005 : I-864 fee bill delivered to St Louis

Mar 3, 2005 : IV fee bill received

Mar 7, 2005 : Sent IV fee bill

Mar 9, 2005 : IV fee bill delivered to St Louis

Mar 28, 2005 : I-864 fee credited against case.

April 6, 2005 : Received I-864 package

April 7, 2005 : Immigrant Visa fee credited against case.

April 11, 2005 : DS 230 is generated

Aug 12, 2005 : I-864 & DS 230 received by NVC

Sep 14, 2005 : RFE on I-864

Nov 3, 2005 : Checklist response received at NVC

Nov 25, 2005 : Case completion

Dec 9, 2005 : Police Cert requested from the Netherlands

Jan 12 2006 : Interview success - Approved !!

Jan 19 2006 : Visa & brown envelope picked up

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:unsure: A sensible Muslim voice ? If you mean the lady is " the sensible muslim voice", the lady claims she is not muslim, not christian, not jew. She claimed that herself.

Well regardless of the title of thread.....good to hear some commonsense....

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I think if she returns to the 'Cradle of Life' she will be killed. So sad.

Here is the transcript just in case anyones video is not working....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Following are excerpts from an interview with Arab-American psychologist Wafa Sultan. The interview was aired on Al-Jazeera TV on February 21, 2006

.

Wafa Sultan: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.

[...]

Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?

Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.

[...]

Host: Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue, if you don't mind...

Wafa Sultan: The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to start this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.

My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the "People of the Book," and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians "those who incur Allah's wrath." Who told you that they are "People of the Book"? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's wrath," or "those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?

I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.

[...]

Wafa Sultan: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people's beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.

[...]

Wafa Sultan: The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.


"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

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If she's a "secular human being", she is not a muslim. In fact, she seems quite determined to distance herself from religion. She's also described as an arab-american, the opinions she's expressing are clearly western ones.

I'd be more interested to hear the opinions of someone actually living and working in the region.

Edited by Fishdude

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I'd be more interested to hear the opinions of someone actually living and working in the region.

Here they are.

VAH10902061422.jpg

060214protest.jpg


"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

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Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Al-Khouli sounds like he has a serious case of stickuphisass.


Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

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Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Al-Khouli sounds like he has a serious case of stickuphisass.

He probably IS in the region so if he seriously debated her he might be killed as a heretic. With such impied threats hanging over everyones head, it's impossible to have an actual debate over 'there'.


"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

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Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Al-Khouli sounds like he has a serious case of stickuphisass.

He probably IS in the region so if he seriously debated her he might be killed as a heretic. With such impied threats hanging over everyones head, it's impossible to have an actual debate over 'there'.

:yes: It is well known that in much of the Middle East, being called a heretic is a death sentence.


Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

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Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Al-Khouli sounds like he has a serious case of stickuphisass.
He probably IS in the region so if he seriously debated her he might be killed as a heretic. With such impied threats hanging over everyones head, it's impossible to have an actual debate over 'there'.

True. But then, it's impossible to actually debate a dogmatic belief system anyways.

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Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Al-Khouli sounds like he has a serious case of stickuphisass.
He probably IS in the region so if he seriously debated her he might be killed as a heretic. With such impied threats hanging over everyones head, it's impossible to have an actual debate over 'there'.

True. But then, it's impossible to actually debate a dogmatic belief system anyways.

Yes, all one can do is know the dogma, identify how many people who believe in it, and then set up the re-education camps accordingly ;)


Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

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Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Al-Khouli sounds like he has a serious case of stickuphisass.
He probably IS in the region so if he seriously debated her he might be killed as a heretic. With such impied threats hanging over everyones head, it's impossible to have an actual debate over 'there'.
True. But then, it's impossible to actually debate a dogmatic belief system anyways.

Yes, all one can do is know the dogma, identify how many people who believe in it, and then set up the re-education camps accordingly ;)

Is that the plan? Good Luck... :whistle:

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True. But then, it's impossible to actually debate a dogmatic belief system anyways.

Yes, all one can do is know the dogma, identify how many people who believe in it, and then set up the re-education camps accordingly ;)

Is that the plan? Good Luck... :whistle:

Kim Jong Il style, baby!


Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

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