Moscow Is ‘Ready for Combat,’ NATO Says

[Danno 1,228]

Don't you think the Soviet Union might have had similar concerns regarding the Thor IRBMs that had just been stationed in Turkey and the UK at the time?

Funny how you never read much about the quid pro quo that the Soviet missile withdrawal entailed.

Sure, I think you are adding to my point.

We did not want them in our Neighborhood and they felt the same way about us.... we came to that understanding.

My how things have changed, they have not moved in our neighborhood but we have surrounded them when Russia was to weak to stop it.

Now that will begin to change as we will see Russia movie into our Hood.

When they install missiles in VZ or Cuba, how can we object?

When they start parking a Nuclear sub down the coast from us, will our security be degraded?

When they do what we have done and instigate a red-revolution in central America to match the ones we instigated over there.... will we be in a better place or lesser?

We would never allow Russia to do to us what we have done to them......

When this Ukraine adventure is over for us we will have harmed our own interests more than helped it.

Sure Russia will pay a price but for them it is a cost of necessity, we will pay a price and what will we have in return?

Ukraine? Latvia.... Estonia, Georgia?

[BatmanUSA 105]

after Iraq, afghanistan, and all the other places the US has gotten involved, some would have hoped that the US has learned from those mistakes...

why are we still spending billions of dollars to rebuild Iraq while our own infrastructure is deteriorating significantly...

that old saying, freedom isn't free... but why is the US paying the majority of the costs to expand worldwide freedom...??

we won the cold war because we out spent and bankrupted the Soviet union... now it seems this country is almost bankrupt... The US government better read some history books and wise up before this country starts fragmenting...

I agree with Danno... NATO and the European Union are surrounding Russia.. of course they feel threatened..

The collapse of the Soviet Union, decimated the Russian economy and military but they have been rebuilding their economy and their military for the past 20 years. Concentrating and investing in their own country while the US has been using resources to do what some people could consider an attempt to dominate the entire world.

I'm wondering why a Russian warplane would spend 90 minutes flying around a US warship in the black sea, last week.. now that's very provocative, however if there was a Russian warship in the gulf of Mexico, the US would probably do the same thing... But last year there was a Russian nuclear submarine in the gulf of mexico and supposedly the US military didn't know it was there..

[Dakine10 5,452]

See, this is where you Putin trolls have it all wrong. Nobody had to stir the pot for us to kick the Soviet puppets to the curb. We wanted to get rid of them in the worst way all on our own.

Awe come on now. That's just the butthurt talking and you know it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Awe come on now. That's just the butthurt talking and you know it.

The only butthurt is on part of those Russians that miss the days where Soviet oppression kept most of Eastern Europe in poverty. The Putin trolls seem to feel it, too.

[Dakine10 5,452]

The only butthurt is on part of those Russians that miss the days where Soviet oppression kept most of Eastern Europe in poverty. The Putin trolls seem to feel it, too.

That's not the only butthurt. You have alluded on ocassion to the non-specific but (I presume) personal injustice you suffered at the hands of the Soviets. It's obvious from your posts that you are still feeling it. Cest la vie.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

That's not the only butthurt. You have alluded on ocassion to the non-specific but (I presume) personal injustice you suffered at the hands of the Soviets. It's obvious from your posts that you are still feeling it. Cest la vie.

The injustice that Soviet Russia inflicted on continues to inflict on nations and people of Europe will never be forgotten. Nor should it be. The context of history is important when looking what Soviet Russia does to its neighbors today. Russia is an aggressive and oppressive nation that free nations ought to contain.

[Dakine10 5,452]

The injustice that Soviet Russia inflicted on continues to inflict on nations and people of Europe will never be forgotten. Nor should it be. The context of history is important when looking what Soviet Russia does to its neighbors today. Russia is an aggressive and oppressive nation that free nations ought to contain.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll believe it some day.

Must have been rough for you having to post under the Ukrainian flag for so long, eh?

Edited April 17, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[Dakine10 5,452]

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll believe it some day.

Must have been rough for you having to post under the Ukrainian flag for so long, eh?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

[SMR 368]

A transitional government comprised of the forces represented by the people's representative body is good until the next election which would occur on an accelerated schedule. Such is the case in Ukraine. Tyrants - such as the ousted Ukrainian mafia boss - need to be run out of office since they will never allow to be voted out. That's just the way it is. The government with the least legitimacy is a tyrannical government such as the one Ukrainians got rid of. I realize that doesn't fit the Russian propaganda and I realize that the Putin trolls will object but, again, it is what it is.

But Yanukovich already had been voted out of power. And then he was voted back into power. And all things pointed to him being voted out of power again during the accelerated election schedule that he agreed to. It's been said before but bears repeating that the Ukrainian revolutionaries really screwed up when they refused to wait for the election to remove VY. Their government lost legitimacy in the eyes of Ukrainians who didn't support them.

What Putin and many Russians tend to forget, is that unlike America's Cold War sphere of interest, which was very pro-American, the old Russian sphere of interest (Former Soviet and Eastern Bloc) does not remember the Cold War era in a positive light. Hence why most of Eastern Europe are now both EU and NATO members.

Where the US kept its influence through soft power, the SU usually had to resort to military force.

Putin may be a sociopath and a tyrant, but he certainly isn't stupid and understands Eastern European politics very astutely. This is precisely why if left alone by NATO and the EU this is unlikely to escalate and perpetuate. Crimea, certain [other] parts of eastern Ukraine, and perhaps parts of Georgia and parts of Azerbaijan may eventually become parts of the RF. The Baltics, the rest of Ukraine, Georgia, and the rest of the Balkans will only become parts of Russian in an open and full shooting war. Putin won't go there and if he does then NATO should absolutely get involved militarily. But trying to put a stake in the ground over Crimea is a losing proposition for NATO.

Moreover, while life in the USSR wasn't great for many USSR citizens and other Warsaw pact countries, the fall of the USSR didn't exactly bring unicorns, rainbows, and butterflies for anyone involved. The Baltics and some of the Balkans have done quite well but the rest of the former USSR/warsaw pact countries aren't so clear cut. It's not just a question of the Cold War being remembered in a positive light. It's also about how much better it has gotten since then. In some places it has unfortunately gotten worse.

[JohnR! 5,495]

But Yanukovich already had been voted out of power. And then he was voted back into power. And all things pointed to him being voted out of power again during the accelerated election schedule that he agreed to. It's been said before but bears repeating that the Ukrainian revolutionaries really screwed up when they refused to wait for the election to remove VY. Their government lost legitimacy in the eyes of Ukrainians who didn't support them.

Putin may be a sociopath and a tyrant, but he certainly isn't stupid and understands Eastern European politics very astutely. This is precisely why if left alone by NATO and the EU this is unlikely to escalate and perpetuate. Crimea, certain [other] parts of eastern Ukraine, and perhaps parts of Georgia and parts of Azerbaijan may eventually become parts of the RF. The Baltics, the rest of Ukraine, Georgia, and the rest of the Balkans will only become parts of Russian in an open and full shooting war. Putin won't go there and if he does then NATO should absolutely get involved militarily. But trying to put a stake in the ground over Crimea is a losing proposition for NATO.

Moreover, while life in the USSR wasn't great for many USSR citizens and other Warsaw pact countries, the fall of the USSR didn't exactly bring unicorns, rainbows, and butterflies for anyone involved. The Baltics and some of the Balkans have done quite well but the rest of the former USSR/warsaw pact countries aren't so clear cut. It's not just a question of the Cold War being remembered in a positive light. It's also about how much better it has gotten since then. In some places it has unfortunately gotten worse.

I think that is pretty much it. The end of the USSR was good news for most but there remain pockets of individuals who were denied the benefits of an open society and for whom life was better 'in the good old days'.

However we look at it, any such resurgence in Soviet values regardless of sponsorship, need to be addressed by the international community. If Putin wants to bankrupt Russia again with his designs of empire, let him do so. America and NATO have the high ground on this one, and since the demise of the USSR there are other players in the field. Besides the economic and political pressure the west can exert over Putin, we must also remember that China has been a rival to the soviet empire since the days of the cold war. Nowadays the Chinese have far more to lose than they did back then, so we should also expect and demand they take a stance against Russia.

America can sit this one out.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But Yanukovich already had been voted out of power. And then he was voted back into power. And all things pointed to him being voted out of power again during the accelerated election schedule that he agreed to. It's been said before but bears repeating that the Ukrainian revolutionaries really screwed up when they refused to wait for the election to remove VY. Their government lost legitimacy in the eyes of Ukrainians who didn't support them.

Putin may be a sociopath and a tyrant, but he certainly isn't stupid and understands Eastern European politics very astutely. This is precisely why if left alone by NATO and the EU this is unlikely to escalate and perpetuate. Crimea, certain [other] parts of eastern Ukraine, and perhaps parts of Georgia and parts of Azerbaijan may eventually become parts of the RF. The Baltics, the rest of Ukraine, Georgia, and the rest of the Balkans will only become parts of Russian in an open and full shooting war. Putin won't go there and if he does then NATO should absolutely get involved militarily. But trying to put a stake in the ground over Crimea is a losing proposition for NATO.

Moreover, while life in the USSR wasn't great for many USSR citizens and other Warsaw pact countries, the fall of the USSR didn't exactly bring unicorns, rainbows, and butterflies for anyone involved. The Baltics and some of the Balkans have done quite well but the rest of the former USSR/warsaw pact countries aren't so clear cut. It's not just a question of the Cold War being remembered in a positive light. It's also about how much better it has gotten since then. In some places it has unfortunately gotten worse.

Nobody expected butterflies and rainbows and unicorns. But the picture then and now is like night and day - in that order. It is true that when speaking with people, it appears that many have forgotten just how bad it was. I've had many of those discussions back home. The younger generation simply doesn't know because they weren't around or too young then. But make no mistake, from Berlin to Warsaw to Prague to Budapest and beyond, things have gotten better. Less even but better. A lot better than they were. Period.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Nobody expected butterflies and rainbows and unicorns. But the picture then and now is like night and day - in that order. It is true that when speaking with people, it appears that many have forgotten just how bad it was. I've had many of those discussions back home. The younger generation simply doesn't know because they weren't around or too young then. But make no mistake, from Berlin to Warsaw to Prague to Budapest and beyond, things have gotten better. Less even but better. A lot better than they were. Period.

My wife is originally from West Berlin and she is befuddled by the younger crowd and tourists who visit the city and expect to see the remains of The Wall or stretches of No Man's Land, as though they were something to be cherished, instead of shameful monuments to the obscenity of the soviet era.

[SMR 368]

Nobody expected butterflies and rainbows and unicorns. But the picture then and now is like night and day - in that order. It is true that when speaking with people, it appears that many have forgotten just how bad it was. I've had many of those discussions back home. The younger generation simply doesn't know because they weren't around or too young then. But make no mistake, from Berlin to Warsaw to Prague to Budapest and beyond, things have gotten better. Less even but better. A lot better than they were. Period.

Berlin, Warsaw, Prague, and Budapest are probably better. Simferopol, Chisinau, Minsk, and Donetsk? Not so much. Again, it's not that the USSR rocked. It's just that the last two decades kind of sucked for certain parts of Eastern Europe. You could be right that it's a lot of selective remembering and that the USSR was worse than people remember, but that's not really relevant. If people think the past was better, it's a losing proposition to try to convince them that it wasn't.

I'm curious though why you assume that everything got better for everyone when the USSR fell and anyone who says otherwise has a bad memory. Did you live in the USSR? Even if you did, maybe you're the one with the bad memory. Or maybe it just matters what part of the USSR/Warsaw pact you were in (which is kind of my whole point).