African male culture...

[southernchic 0]

Hello everyone.

Me and my SO having been living together for almost 6 months now. He's from Ethiopia and I'm American. Our relationships isn't what I expected at all. He's a loving and gentle guy. I'm fairly laid back person but we are constantly arguing over things that later turn out to be misunderstandings or cultural differences. I am really having a hard time. We try to discuss things but I end up feeling REALLY frustrated. I'm just curious. Are there some cultural issues that I am missing?

Money. He likes having nice things. When he wasn't working I took care of both of us and he just didn't understand why the finances caused me stress. Now that he's been working, he's all about saving his money and thinking about the future. And he doesn't want me to know exactly how much money he has. he says that in his culture women don't ask men how much money they have. We are figuring out a compromise and a financial plan. But I was shocked that he just has a hard time understanding living expenses and bills. He seems reluctant to spend a lot of money on bills. He says that when he was home he always had money to spend and that he expected to have alot of money once he started working. My response was, "welcome to America. we're all broke" I say this slightly jokingly. We live in DC, which is one of the most expensive cities to live in.

Listening. He doesn't like to listen to me sometimes. When he first got here in June we were going to a get together. He wanted to wear his leather jacket. I was like, its too hot for leather. He just wouldn't listen to me. Finally I was insistent that he could not wear it he gave in. Its very hot in July even at night. I just couldn't understand why he didn't believe me. That's the perfect example of what I don't get. I love him and want to help him understand how things work here but i swear to God, he's quick to disagree with me. I can't force him to listen but sometimes its a drain.

Communication. This is getting a little bit better. But my husband just doesn't like explaining things. And no matter how many times we agree to communicate, it just doesn't work out that way.

Anyway, I want to make our relationship work. I'd welcome some insights.

Sonya

[Ta Ta 1]

Interesting post and I hope we will have a lot of participation from Western Africa.

I studied the culture first to know what will be ahead so issues won't take you by surprise. However there are some things you just won't know until you live together for an extended time.

It would be helpful to get a cultural diverse support system to discuss things with in your area.

Clothes.....my fiance has excellent taste in clothes so whatever he wears is just fine. As a matter of fact sometimes I have asked him what I should wear.

As far as the jackets and coats , let him make the decision and 'sweat' it out and find out for himself that he will be hot. He may not be hot in the jacket and quiet comfortable, his

climate tolerance is probably completely different than yours. And who cares what everyone else thinks at the party, they will understand.

Communication......The most important part of sharing a life together. It may be more

of a personality issue than cultural, I don't know. Though African men usualy and generaly

speaking do not explain themselves a lot to their wives, it is vital that he makes some adjustments on this for the relationship. Men just take off and go with other groups of men

and leave their wives at home, I rarely saw couples hand in hand walking together.

Which brings me to the issue of affection. I think W. African men are a little more reserved

showing affection , be it in puplic or private. It is more about poise and respect with them.

It can be gently suggested that needs for affection with us may be greater.

Money.........Yes, the W.African male likes to buy nice things and have a little money in his pocket, who doesn't. He should have a spending budget as should you to do with as you please. And yes, most do not understand that Americans are very much in debt and have high bills to pay every month. They think in America everyone is rich, what a shock to find out this is not so. I have told my fiance about my debt and monthly payments ahead of time to soften the blow when he gets here. I have shared with him when I was broke at times.

Both partners must make cultural adjustments to make it work. If one is not happy

about something it must be brought to the table and discussed. Pick and choose what you can and can't live with and try to overlook minor things like clothes in order to get bigger issues like finances resolved. If as you say he won't 'listen' maybe he just wants to make his own choices and they will be different from yours. There is no right or wrong. Allow him to be himself.

Would like to hear a little humor thrown in here also as it can be quiet funny

with little odd things .......things we find odd that is or they find really crazy about our ways here in the US.

I would like to hear other views and experiences with W. African men.

Some comments from W. African men would be also helpful here.

[rodney22 0]

S,

My wife is from East Africa. She asked me to pass this on about the culture:

Apply the culture in all things, fully apply the culture. In East African culture, the man is the provider, buys all things and the woman assists. The man takes care of all needs, that is the man's duty.

[Kanyiri 0]

I'll talk to my husband later to get his perspective on this, but I can share mine with you.

Money - The number one reason for divorces in the US (among American citizen couples) is money disputes. Granted yours has the extra dimension of adding someone from a different culture, but even if you had married a born and raised American, you still would have had money issues. If he doesn't want to tell you how much money he's making then make him pay all the bills and your income becomes the fun money. That's how it happens in my husband's country, so if your husband is still clinging to that culture, then fine: he pays the bills. Personally my husband and I would have constant arguments if he tried to keep anything secret from me, but we also had two years of living together in his country where we figured a lot of this stuff out. Your husband may still be getting used to the higher status that women have here and may feel threatened by it. Hopefully in time he will come around. Just try not to step on his pride or he will retaliate. Men of all cultures need to feel trusted and honored. If they aren't then they become bitter. Women need to feel loved, men need to feel honored and trusted.

Pick and choose what arguments are important to you. Him wearing a jacket that was too hot for the season really doesn't affect you, so why start the argument? Tell him it's warm outside, and if he doesn't care then let him wear it. After staying in the US longer and being surrounded by the US culture he will start to adapt - on his own time. My husband has to polish his shoes every time he wears them, and if they are tennis shoes he has to wash them - thoroughly - every couple weeks. I can not understand this for the life of me b/c my tennis shoes have never been washed - unless I'm walking in the rain and they get wet so that the rain does all the work for me. I've given up trying to explain this to him, and let him spend the hours washing his shoes. He also won't leave the house without washing his face - even to just walk the dog. He is very particular about his appearance.

Anyway, just make sure your husband doesn't think you are directly attacking him b/c nothing will get accomplished if that is the case. There are quite a few couples in the DC area that are American - African combinations. I'm one and I know of at least two others personally, but I know for a fact that there are more. You may want to try to find a couple like that to hang out with. That way you can see that what you are going through is normal.

I hope things become easier for you soon!

Kanyiri

[ForeverAmen 0]

For the moment I will keep my comment brief (I'm at work).

As for the Finance ... After explaining to my husband for several months the bills, when they are due, etc. I finally came up with an alternative other than a verbal explanation. Here it goes:

#1) Write out on a sheet of paper EVERY bill that you have. For example:

Name of the bill Ex: Phone Bill

The amount due: $$$

When it is due

THEN ....

For revolving accounts try this:

Name of the Bill

The minimum amount due: $$

When it is due:

Then at the bottom put in parenthesis () the total balance.

Then attach the original of every bill. Take the time to highlight the important things .... Company name, account #, due date, total balance, etc., etc. Be prepared to due this for several months cycle of bills.

That way he 'sees' what is going on. It also helps him to understand how a $100 pair of shoes can go towards paying off the balance on a card.

#2) Make a budget and stick with it. In the meantime, make him responsible for paying a bill (this works whether you have a joint account or not). And if a bill is not paid, be sure that he understands that their is a consequence. Here is a situation that we experienced shortly after my husband arrived.

I was teaching him how to write checks. His job was to write the check for the utility bill and place it in the mail. Because I have already shown him what to do, I took it that everything was done. For some odd reason my husband wrote the check (just as I told him) and DID NOT put the check in the mail! So when the next bill came, it showed that we owed the previous months bill, plus a late fee. Guess what? When my husband was getting prepared for our Friday night date to the movies I explained to him that we do not have the money to do such. Why? The late fee we had to pay (no more than $5.00) had to be taken away from our movie money. Not only did he learn a lesson, but he wants to pay the bills as soon as it arrives.

Hope this helps.

I will share a little bit more tonight.

Geez .......... after looking at the preview I guess my comment was not brief after all.

[forchika 4]

I am glad someone brought up this subject matter this was a topic in our nightly conversation as we had an issue which led me to think about most of the topics brought up. This is a wonderful topic to bring up in the forum. I have been thinking about some different things and I agreed that most of the issues have to deal with cultural diffrences and the other has to deal with the difference in the way that a man and woman communicate, think and handle certain issues and situations. I look forward to reading more on the subject matter ........

[Ta Ta 1]

I'll talk to my husband later to get his perspective on this, but I can share mine with you.

Money - The number one reason for divorces in the US (among American citizen couples) is money disputes. Granted yours has the extra dimension of adding someone from a different culture, but even if you had married a born and raised American, you still would have had money issues. If he doesn't want to tell you how much money he's making then make him pay all the bills and your income becomes the fun money. That's how it happens in my husband's country, so if your husband is still clinging to that culture, then fine: he pays the bills. Personally my husband and I would have constant arguments if he tried to keep anything secret from me, but we also had two years of living together in his country where we figured a lot of this stuff out. Your husband may still be getting used to the higher status that women have here and may feel threatened by it. Hopefully in time he will come around. Just try not to step on his pride or he will retaliate. Men of all cultures need to feel trusted and honored. If they aren't then they become bitter. Women need to feel loved, men need to feel honored and trusted.

Pick and choose what arguments are important to you. Him wearing a jacket that was too hot for the season really doesn't affect you, so why start the argument? Tell him it's warm outside, and if he doesn't care then let him wear it. After staying in the US longer and being surrounded by the US culture he will start to adapt - on his own time. My husband has to polish his shoes every time he wears them, and if they are tennis shoes he has to wash them - thoroughly - every couple weeks. I can not understand this for the life of me b/c my tennis shoes have never been washed - unless I'm walking in the rain and they get wet so that the rain does all the work for me. I've given up trying to explain this to him, and let him spend the hours washing his shoes. He also won't leave the house without washing his face - even to just walk the dog. He is very particular about his appearance.

Anyway, just make sure your husband doesn't think you are directly attacking him b/c nothing will get accomplished if that is the case. There are quite a few couples in the DC area that are American - African combinations. I'm one and I know of at least two others personally, but I know for a fact that there are more. You may want to try to find a couple like that to hang out with. That way you can see that what you are going through is normal.

I hope things become easier for you soon!

Kanyiri

I had to smile when I read the stuff about washing and polishing the shoes..........cute !

I remember mine polishing away also.

[Ta Ta 1]

I love this thread.....keep 'em coming !

I think the MENA group had something like this thread.

It may be a good idea for those who are close in the area to exchange phone numbers

for a good support.

Any one in the ST. Louis metro area ?

Can't think of any other issues right now but I am sure there will be many when he finally gets here.

[southernchic 0]

I love this thread.....keep 'em coming !

I think the MENA group had something like this thread.

It may be a good idea for those who are close in the area to exchange phone numbers

for a good support.

Any one in the ST. Louis metro area ?

Can't think of any other issues right now but I am sure there will be many when he finally gets here.

I love the idea of a DC area group for intercultural relationships. If any one is interested please PM or email me. I'd love to hook up for coffee or something. Thanks for all of the advice. It makes me feel better knowing that I need to learn about the culture.

MONEY: Re: money we're working things out. I think he has some misconceptions about how much money I make and about the concept of me being broke. And I think it might be a good idea for him to pay the bills for a while so that he can understand the pain and heartache we all go through paying bills every month. He doesn't make enough to pay all of the bills so any advice would be welcomed. I probably do come down hard on him about things. I'm a bit of a perfectionist (hence the reason why I forbid him from wearing the leather jacket and also from wearing white socks with black shoes).

SOCIALIZING. I noticed while I was in Ethiopia that men socialize with other men. I kept asking him, "where are the women? Are they at home?" We go out to the movies and restaurants togehter. We'll also go to Starbucks and relax there, too.

The issue with socializing, which is a cultural issue for us, is that he DOES NOT like for me to go out at night with my friends. He's muslim and says that in his culture a woman is considered a "garden tool" if she's out past midnight. Now, we don't argue about this. He trusts me but it still makes him mad if I stay out late -- even if I'm just chilling at a friends' house. Also, if I go out and have one drink, as soon as I walk in the door he's like the alcohol police. He'll say, "Your drrrrunk." (you know rolling the r's) And, of course, i defend myself and prove that I'm sober. Its very funny. I'll have two drinks and he'll swear that I'm totally drunk. I tell him, "Dude, you've never seen me drunk. It takes more than two glasses of wine"

The question about culture is how do you identify a conflict as culture instead of personality??? How have people had the patience to sit back and say, "What just happened?" before it becomes an arguement??

I hope we can keep this discussion going.

[joej 0]

This is good advice. We do something similar to what you have in #1, and it has worked well.

For the moment I will keep my comment brief (I'm at work).

As for the Finance ... After explaining to my husband for several months the bills, when they are due, etc. I finally came up with an alternative other than a verbal explanation. Here it goes:

#1) Write out on a sheet of paper EVERY bill that you have. For example:

Name of the bill Ex: Phone Bill

The amount due: $$$

When it is due

THEN ....

For revolving accounts try this:

Name of the Bill

The minimum amount due: $$

When it is due:

Then at the bottom put in parenthesis () the total balance.

Then attach the original of every bill. Take the time to highlight the important things .... Company name, account #, due date, total balance, etc., etc. Be prepared to due this for several months cycle of bills.

That way he 'sees' what is going on. It also helps him to understand how a $100 pair of shoes can go towards paying off the balance on a card.

#2) Make a budget and stick with it. In the meantime, make him responsible for paying a bill (this works whether you have a joint account or not). And if a bill is not paid, be sure that he understands that their is a consequence. Here is a situation that we experienced shortly after my husband arrived.

I was teaching him how to write checks. His job was to write the check for the utility bill and place it in the mail. Because I have already shown him what to do, I took it that everything was done. For some odd reason my husband wrote the check (just as I told him) and DID NOT put the check in the mail! So when the next bill came, it showed that we owed the previous months bill, plus a late fee. Guess what? When my husband was getting prepared for our Friday night date to the movies I explained to him that we do not have the money to do such. Why? The late fee we had to pay (no more than $5.00) had to be taken away from our movie money. Not only did he learn a lesson, but he wants to pay the bills as soon as it arrives.

Hope this helps.

I will share a little bit more tonight.

Geez .......... after looking at the preview I guess my comment was not brief after all.

[joej 0]

Hang in there. There is some really great advice here. The first few months were the worst for me. Not sure if ours was cultural differences, or just bad communication. It seems like most newly married people go through a bad patch in the beginning. The cultural thing may just compound it.

Best Wishes

Hello everyone.

Me and my SO having been living together for almost 6 months now. He's from Ethiopia and I'm American. Our relationships isn't what I expected at all. He's a loving and gentle guy. I'm fairly laid back person but we are constantly arguing over things that later turn out to be misunderstandings or cultural differences. I am really having a hard time. We try to discuss things but I end up feeling REALLY frustrated. I'm just curious. Are there some cultural issues that I am missing?

Money. He likes having nice things. When he wasn't working I took care of both of us and he just didn't understand why the finances caused me stress. Now that he's been working, he's all about saving his money and thinking about the future. And he doesn't want me to know exactly how much money he has. he says that in his culture women don't ask men how much money they have. We are figuring out a compromise and a financial plan. But I was shocked that he just has a hard time understanding living expenses and bills. He seems reluctant to spend a lot of money on bills. He says that when he was home he always had money to spend and that he expected to have alot of money once he started working. My response was, "welcome to America. we're all broke" I say this slightly jokingly. We live in DC, which is one of the most expensive cities to live in.

Listening. He doesn't like to listen to me sometimes. When he first got here in June we were going to a get together. He wanted to wear his leather jacket. I was like, its too hot for leather. He just wouldn't listen to me. Finally I was insistent that he could not wear it he gave in. Its very hot in July even at night. I just couldn't understand why he didn't believe me. That's the perfect example of what I don't get. I love him and want to help him understand how things work here but i swear to God, he's quick to disagree with me. I can't force him to listen but sometimes its a drain.

Communication. This is getting a little bit better. But my husband just doesn't like explaining things. And no matter how many times we agree to communicate, it just doesn't work out that way.

Anyway, I want to make our relationship work. I'd welcome some insights.

Sonya

[sercontigo 1]

I love this thread.....keep 'em coming !

I think the MENA group had something like this thread.

It may be a good idea for those who are close in the area to exchange phone numbers

for a good support.

Any one in the ST. Louis metro area ?

Can't think of any other issues right now but I am sure there will be many when he finally gets here.

I love the idea of a DC area group for intercultural relationships. If any one is interested please PM or email me. I'd love to hook up for coffee or something. Thanks for all of the advice. It makes me feel better knowing that I need to learn about the culture.

MONEY: Re: money we're working things out. I think he has some misconceptions about how much money I make and about the concept of me being broke. And I think it might be a good idea for him to pay the bills for a while so that he can understand the pain and heartache we all go through paying bills every month. He doesn't make enough to pay all of the bills so any advice would be welcomed. I probably do come down hard on him about things. I'm a bit of a perfectionist (hence the reason why I forbid him from wearing the leather jacket and also from wearing white socks with black shoes).

SOCIALIZING. I noticed while I was in Ethiopia that men socialize with other men. I kept asking him, "where are the women? Are they at home?" We go out to the movies and restaurants togehter. We'll also go to Starbucks and relax there, too.

The issue with socializing, which is a cultural issue for us, is that he DOES NOT like for me to go out at night with my friends. He's muslim and says that in his culture a woman is considered a "garden tool" if she's out past midnight. Now, we don't argue about this. He trusts me but it still makes him mad if I stay out late -- even if I'm just chilling at a friends' house. Also, if I go out and have one drink, as soon as I walk in the door he's like the alcohol police. He'll say, "Your drrrrunk." (you know rolling the r's) And, of course, i defend myself and prove that I'm sober. Its very funny. I'll have two drinks and he'll swear that I'm totally drunk. I tell him, "Dude, you've never seen me drunk. It takes more than two glasses of wine"

The question about culture is how do you identify a conflict as culture instead of personality??? How have people had the patience to sit back and say, "What just happened?" before it becomes an arguement??

I hope we can keep this discussion going.

The rolling R comment was pretty funny..."drrrrunk"!!

[Ta Ta 1]

The question raised how to differentiate between culture versus personality is to

study the culture, read, discuss with other friends from your husbands country

what their perspective is. Visiting the country and developing an awareness of the social

interactions.

You will get the 'feel' for it.

It can be draining to constantly explain, discuss etc. when coming home tired from work.

But it is vital to keep patience and compassion alive, in any marriage.

It takes work to grow together into a smooth functioning unit.....and time.

Throw perfection out the window in regards to expectations of another person.

Try to let that go. It is impossible to live up to other's perfect expectations.

You may crinch if he wears the wrong socks with the wrong shoes but let him be

himself. It does not matter.

What matters is harmony.

Maybe just giving him the responsibility of a few bills that he has to pay since he can't

pay for all of them for now.

Maybe all utilities come out of his pay, if he doesn't pay the lights go out.

Decisions....consequences.

Then there is the aforementioned : apply the culture, let the man do it all, the wife assists. I agree with it but is it always realistic ?

I think it takes a long time, maybe years to fully integrate and be able to lead the household that efficiently with complete understanding of our western ways.

If the mortgage needs to be refinanced, if other crucial decisions need to be made,

whoever is the USC will have the understanding more so then the SO. Teaching the husband life here so he can lead is fine, however being very independent I prefer a partnership for now, learning trust to submit to his leadership as he learns our culture slowly.

No need to rush him to adjust, not interfering with his decisions or wanting to change who he is and compromising my own habits according to his culture seems to me a happy medium and balanced approach. Some things we may have to change or stop to blend our two cultures if we offend each other.

southernchick......how did your husband adjust to going out together with you

rather than his group of friends at home and how included in his world do you feel ?

Does he share with you the little things in life or just wants to do his own thing ?

Just wondering how he was able to make the switch in matters of spending time

with you versus 'just the guys he knows'.

[zeborah007 0]

Ladies,Ladies.........HUm I have to laugh with you NOT at you..........

I am not sure the issues are all the same with the men we speak of from W.Africa,I seriouslly wonder if it who they are raised by.....I say this for My Hon was raised by women and many from Mum to girlfriend of dad who by the way lives in the UK with a wife (so I think My Hon,has learned that women are the emotional support,not just for assistance)

He does have that shoe cleaning thing too,I think it is because the value of a NEW pair of shoes is very appreciated.I mean when I was there visiting I didnt understand what he meant by a fairly new pair of shoes he bought. (now I know) So when I brought gifts of new shoes,gezzzzz they were washed after each outting....Ladies mine dont get washed either here but there they did by HIM .LOL

I was treated as a queen and didnt lift a finger and wasnt allowed too,SO I asked him straight out was that normal for the man to do everything (cause I really wanted to help)He told me the man does the majority of the chores and takes care of the children,the woman is to cook and feed the children. YES YES the man still holds down a full time career too.

So right away I explain most of the American womans ways....We work or have careers,we are independant but need love,Not all women here want children due to careers or personal choice, and we usually cook,clean, mow grass,supply shop and fix broken things around the house, and tend to any pets we may have.............And if children are involved usually the woman has to attend school issues and tends to their homework,American males usually tend to the TV and the neighbors.......

Okay Okay dont get upset Ladies,I am not bashing American men but I have a little right here...I was married very young the first time and than again later for 12 years. My career did come first with only step children involved from the last man.I have no children of my own and didnt plan on any do to how I seen some being raised..... But back to how my Hon responded was very shocking to me. He just kept telling me I do too much and he will do anything I want and yes children is a desire of his, But when it comes to money/spending his is very cautious and gets upset when too much is spent,not angry or mad but VERY concerned that there will be enough to make ends meet. HUMMMMMMMMM thats different.

So maybe it is who they are raised by or what they didnt have that makes things between W.African men different in many ways,I did get to experince his Dad and his ways...........His Dad did want the best of the best and thougt I was rich being American,I didnt have to set him straight,My Hon did !

Maybe I am just lucky that I found Kelvin.He is sensitive,OMG VERY VERY loving,desires to make me happy,understands my ways are different than his,we did argue about an issue but he pleaded with me to just talk it out (cause we never get mad/upset)....and he loves to show affection in front of public,family and friends "more "than me.....

We chat everyday and talk via telephone when ever we need to hear each others voice..........Drinking issues: Thats funny cause he got drrrunker than me and we were laughing at each other.

He does get jealious only because he doesnt know my friends like I know his but that will come in time.When that happens I just remind him I found him and I desired the k-1 before him.

Ladies I dont have the answers either,but communication and being able to enjoy the differences in cultures I think is the real trick ! Remember one thing, You have choosen to love a different culture,PLEASE dont try to change them so quickly to be American Men.........we could have had one of those with less visa issues !

Please dont take my post negatively,its just meant to bring light/love back to the reason we all have made this journey !

For LOVE right !!!!

[Ta Ta 1]

One of my sweet memories of being with my fiance was him peeling and feeding me

Mangoes.......yum.

He fanned me when I was hot and carried my water bottle. He peeled my potatoes

and cooked them so I would not burn myself on the fire.

I miss him