Iraq panel demands urgent change

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A major report on US policy in Iraq has called for a new approach and urgent action to stop "a slide towards chaos".

The current US strategy of staying the course was no longer viable, Iraq Study Group leader James Baker said.

The report says US troops should be withdrawn from combat and instead used to train Iraqis.

It urges talks with Iran and Syria, a move which the US has so far rejected. President George W Bush said the report would be taken "very seriously".

The ISG report also advocates renewed US efforts to resolve the wider conflict in the Middle East.

The Iraqi government welcomed the review.

Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih said the proposals were in line with the government's view that security must be transferred to Iraqis.

However, a spokesman for the main Sunni bloc in parliament said the report should have included a specific timetable for an American withdrawal.

UK Prime Minister Tony Blair, meanwhile, arrived in Washington on Wednesday for a visit which will include meetings with Mr Bush and congressional leaders - with Iraq expected to top the agenda.

The review came as the US military said 10 American soldiers had been killed in four incidents in Iraq.

'Humanitarian catastrophe'

Correspondents say the review offers no big surprises and no quick fixes.

The 142-page report includes 79 recommendations, of which three are key:

* A change in the primary mission of US forces in Iraq to enable it to begin to move combat forces out responsibly

* Prompt action by the Iraqi government to achieve reconciliation

* New and enhanced diplomatic efforts in the region

The report offers no hard timetable for a pullout of US forces, but says that combat troops could withdraw by early 2008.

However, the review recommended that the US "engage directly with Iran and Syria", and that Washington should "consider incentives and disincentives" for the two nations.

Speaking ahead of the report, Syria repeated its willingness to co-operate with the US, and said it was in Syria's interest to help Iraq.

But correspondents say the president appears unlikely to heed the call for more engagement with Syria and Iran, amid efforts by the administration to isolate both states.

Iraqi reaction

The ISG report warns that if the situation worsens, there is a risk of a "slide toward chaos [that]could trigger the collapse of Iraq's government and a humanitarian catastrophe".

"Neighbouring countries could intervene... The global standing of the United States could be diminished. Americans could become more polarised," it warns.

Mr Baker said a new way forward should be implemented as quickly as possible.

"[iraqis] have been liberated from the nightmare of tyrannical order only to face the nightmare of brutal violence.

"As a matter of humanitarian concern, as a matter of humanitarian interest and as a matter of practical necessity it is time to find a new approach."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6215290.stm

IRAQ STUDY GROUP REPORT

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Mr Baker said a new way forward should be implemented as quickly as possible.

"[iraqis] have been liberated from the nightmare of tyrannical order only to face the nightmare of brutal violence.

Baker clearly must be some liberal hack. How else could he sit there and say things like this?

But then the new Secrtary of Defense went before the Senate saying that Iraq is not winnable.

Where the Bushies at?

Edited December 7, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Don't believe everything you read in the far left media!

What Baker and Gates really said was:

"the iraqis have greeted us as liberators and the sunnis and shias now live in total harmony. you just just won't read about it in the New York Times"

[kaydee457 13]

But then the new Secrtary of Defense went before the Senate saying that Iraq is not winnable.

Never siad that. What he said was that we're losing. Not surprising given the defeatist attitude of this nation and our propensity to be duped by nightly sound bites and a never ending barrage of propaganda/out of perspective reporting of what's going on in BAGHDAD.

Never do you hear about all that's going right in the other 90% of the country.

I'm sure the terrorists are filled with glee over the public airing of this commisions recommendations.

As long as we resign ourselves to defeat we will be defeated.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But then the new Secrtary of Defense went before the Senate saying that Iraq is not winnable.

Never siad that. What he said was that we're losing. Not surprising given the defeatist attitude of this nation and our propensity to be duped by nightly sound bites and a never ending barrage of propaganda/out of perspective reporting of what's going on in BAGHDAD.

Never do you hear about all that's going right in the other 90% of the country.

I'm sure the terrorists are filled with glee over the public airing of this commisions recommendations.

As long as we resign ourselves to defeat we will be defeated.

So you are saying that Bush nominated a defeatist?

[Ban Hammer 14,408]

But then the new Secrtary of Defense went before the Senate saying that Iraq is not winnable.

Never siad that. What he said was that we're losing. Not surprising given the defeatist attitude of this nation and our propensity to be duped by nightly sound bites and a never ending barrage of propaganda/out of perspective reporting of what's going on in BAGHDAD.

Never do you hear about all that's going right in the other 90% of the country.

I'm sure the terrorists are filled with glee over the public airing of this commisions recommendations.

As long as we resign ourselves to defeat we will be defeated.

So you are saying that Bush nominated a defeatist?

can't win with you, eh?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But then the new Secrtary of Defense went before the Senate saying that Iraq is not winnable.

Never siad that. What he said was that we're losing. Not surprising given the defeatist attitude of this nation and our propensity to be duped by nightly sound bites and a never ending barrage of propaganda/out of perspective reporting of what's going on in BAGHDAD.

Never do you hear about all that's going right in the other 90% of the country.

I'm sure the terrorists are filled with glee over the public airing of this commisions recommendations.

As long as we resign ourselves to defeat we will be defeated.

So you are saying that Bush nominated a defeatist?

can't win with you, eh?

I'm just curious. If the guy testified during his confirmation hearings that we are not winning in Iraq and if he's not indicating in any way that we're going to beef things up so that we will be winning then either he knows and implies that this thing cannot be won or that he doesn't care to win it. I thought he meant and was implying the former but apparently, that ain't so. So, then he must be a defeatist that doesn't want to win even though we could.

[peezey 0]

perspective reporting of what's going on in BAGHDAD.

Never do you hear about all that's going right in the other 90% of the country.

What does it matter what's going on in the rest of the country if the capital is in disarray? If your national government cannot contain it's own city, it can't do much about the rest of the country.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

The enemies tactics are unlimited, And we have to be kissy kissy! Or ET and people like him will be cryin "HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATING U.S. TORTURING BASTAGES" Its like takin a plastic knife to a gun fight.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The enemies tactics are unlimited, And we have to be kissy kissy! Or ET and people like him will be cryin "HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATING U.S. TORTURING BASTAGES" Its like takin a plastic knife to a gun fight.

I say we go in there on Harleys wearin black leather. That'll let those ninnies who they're dealing with! No weakness here.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Ban Hammer 14,408]

The enemies tactics are unlimited, And we have to be kissy kissy! Or ET and people like him will be cryin "HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATING U.S. TORTURING BASTAGES" Its like takin a plastic knife to a gun fight.

I say we go in there on Harleys wearin black leather. That'll let those ninnies who they're dealing with! No weakness here.

good idea. i'm sure the hell's angels will have that place under control in no time.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The enemies tactics are unlimited, And we have to be kissy kissy! Or ET and people like him will be cryin "HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATING U.S. TORTURING BASTAGES" Its like takin a plastic knife to a gun fight.

Because some of those people subjected to "harsh treatment" or whatever euphemism by which we choose to call torture nowadays were released without any charges ever being filed. You might think that is somehow justifiable, I don't.

Iraq is a mess, many many people are telling us this -

Instead of looking at the problems itself we seem focussed on "winning" and what it means to "win". Say the right thing or you're a defeatist. Here's a newsflash - its not about bs rhetoric, that we can somehow "win" this war with strong language and a stiff upper lip, its about recognising that the current policy, is fundamentally flawed. Some sort of new direction is clearly called for, and this group is just the latest to say so. How long should we ignore the rising tide of opinion, just because a few people insist on believing what they want to believe - while ignoring the evidence of their eyes and mounting testimony.

"We are not winning, but we are not losing either" - what kind of horsecrap is that?

Hell even Donald Rumsfeld was thinking about making a U-Turn in the days before he was fired, which just possibly might be one of the reasons he was kicked out.

[kaydee457 13]

The enemies tactics are unlimited, And we have to be kissy kissy! Or ET and people like him will be cryin "HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATING U.S. TORTURING BASTAGES" Its like takin a plastic knife to a gun fight.

Because some of those people subjected to "harsh treatment" or whatever euphemism by which we choose to call torture nowadays were released without any charges ever being filed. You might think that is somehow justifiable, I don't.

Iraq is a mess, many many people are telling us this -

Instead of looking at the problems itself we seem focussed on "winning" and what it means to "win". Say the right thing or you're a defeatist. Here's a newsflash - its not about bs rhetoric, that we can somehow "win" this war with strong language and a stiff upper lip, its about recognising that the current policy, is fundamentally flawed. Some sort of new direction is clearly called for, and this group is just the latest to say so. How long should we ignore the rising tide of opinion, just because a few people insist on believing what they want to believe - while ignoring the evidence of their eyes and mounting testimony.

"We are not winning, but we are not losing either" - what kind of horsecrap is that?

Hell even Donald Rumsfeld was thinking about making a U-Turn in the days before he was fired, which just possibly might be one of the reasons he was kicked out.

erekose

Firstly, as usual you are composing your words to distort reality and the truth. You make a fine collaborator.

ET is guilty as well...Gates never said that Iraq war cannot be won. He said that we are losing. That's a sad fact given that the enemy knows how to manipulate our elections via our press.

They can never expect to achieve military victory over us by killing 20~ 30 people a week. They know the absurdity to that. The killings are meant to target the media; a media which continually shows these atrocities almost hourly, and its intent is to terrorize. That's what terrorism is.

The thread topic-

Iraq Panel DEMANDS urgent change

....Really? Have you been reading the NY Times again?

The "panel" is doing no such thing but rather suggesting what we all know; that's to change our strategy and under no circumstance leave before the Iraq's can fend for themselves. The consensus, on both sides of the political isle, is that to leave prematurely would be a disaster for the west, and particularly the U.S.

The reality of this war is that the enemy is simply manipulating the western press, a tactic they learned from our Vietnam experience.

The unfortunate downside to technology is that unlike most wars fought back in the 20th century, the media is an integral part of the battles being fought. The western media reporting in this conflict is nothing short of propaganda meted out by our enemies targeting folks such as yourself; an armchair general with little or no military experience and subsequently no perspective.....

My suggestion to you would be to nix the indignation- you’re only emboldening the enemy with such behavior.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The enemies tactics are unlimited, And we have to be kissy kissy! Or ET and people like him will be cryin "HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATING U.S. TORTURING BASTAGES" Its like takin a plastic knife to a gun fight.

Because some of those people subjected to "harsh treatment" or whatever euphemism by which we choose to call torture nowadays were released without any charges ever being filed. You might think that is somehow justifiable, I don't.

Iraq is a mess, many many people are telling us this -

Instead of looking at the problems itself we seem focussed on "winning" and what it means to "win". Say the right thing or you're a defeatist. Here's a newsflash - its not about bs rhetoric, that we can somehow "win" this war with strong language and a stiff upper lip, its about recognising that the current policy, is fundamentally flawed. Some sort of new direction is clearly called for, and this group is just the latest to say so. How long should we ignore the rising tide of opinion, just because a few people insist on believing what they want to believe - while ignoring the evidence of their eyes and mounting testimony.

"We are not winning, but we are not losing either" - what kind of horsecrap is that?

Hell even Donald Rumsfeld was thinking about making a U-Turn in the days before he was fired, which just possibly might be one of the reasons he was kicked out.

erekose

Firstly, as usual you are composing your words to distort reality and the truth. You make a fine collaborator.

ET is guilty as well...Gates never said that Iraq war cannot be won. He said that we are losing. That's a sad fact given that the enemy knows how to manipulate our elections via our press.

They can never expect to achieve military victory over us by killing 20~ 30 people a week. They know the absurdity to that. The killings are meant to target the media; a media which continually shows these atrocities almost hourly, and its intent is to terrorize. That's what terrorism is.

The thread topic-

Iraq Panel DEMANDS urgent change

....Really? Have you been reading the NY Times again?

The "panel" is doing no such thing but rather suggesting what we all know; that's to change our strategy and under no circumstance leave before the Iraq's can fend for themselves. The consensus, on both sides of the political isle, is that to leave prematurely would be a disaster for the west, and particularly the U.S.

The reality of this war is that the enemy is simply manipulating the western press, a tactic they learned from our Vietnam experience.

The unfortunate downside to technology is that unlike most wars fought back in the 20th century, the media is an integral part of the battles being fought. The western media reporting in this conflict is nothing short of propaganda meted out by our enemies targeting folks such as yourself; an armchair general with little or no military experience and subsequently no perspective.....

My suggestion to you would be to nix the indignation- you’re only emboldening the enemy with such behavior.

Interesting that you seem to think that the current problems in that country are all about 'us' and not about the people who live there - who are living in a deterioriating situation resulting from long-standing sectarian divisions.

The concensus btw is that the status quo is not a viable strategy, or indeed - anything that much amounts to 'strategy' at all.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The reality of this war is that the enemy is simply manipulating the western press, a tactic they learned from our Vietnam experience.

The reality of this war is that we never should have gotten into it in the first place without a clearly defined goal and a clearly defined strategy to achieve it. That's on top of not having had any reason to engage in it to begin with. This "war" cannot be won militarily. That's the reality of it. The Baker commission as well as anyone else with any common sense says just that.

ETA: My apologies for having emboldened the enemy yet again.

Edited December 8, 2006 by ET-US2004