Montana teacher gets 30 days in jail in rape of 14-year-old student who later kills herself

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Which is worse, a rapist or a pedophile?

You answered my question with a question.

But I'll be nice and actually answer yours. I think a pedophile is worse due to their choice in victim.

But pedophiles and rapists can exhibit the same traits. Grooming their victims, bribing them into silence, holding it over them, making them feel like they're in safe hands.

Rape shouldn't be "less rape" or "better rape" just because it isn't violent.

[GandD 5,966]

You answered my question with a question.

But I'll be nice and actually answer yours. I think a pedophile is worse due to their choice in victim.

But pedophiles and rapists can exhibit the same traits. Grooming their victims, bribing them into silence, holding it over them, making them feel like they're in safe hands.

Rape shouldn't be "less rape" or "better rape" just because it isn't violent.

My question was my answer. I was pointing out we already place differences on the crime like statutory rape or whatever other legal classifications we have for rape. Or maybe you (Maybe that was val?) were right about the assault charges being a separate add on charge in the case of a brutal rape. Look, I don't mean to make this into a big thing and I don't mean to take away from the seriousness of this case, but in my mind I'm more appalled by the more violent a rape is. Its not unlike my mentality of murder if you consider a serial killer doing it for pleasure and a mobster doing it for business. They both committed murder, but its different you know. I think for rape, circumstances have to play some role.

[decocker 7,198]

But teachers who get involved with 18 year old students or college students aren't? It's not like 18 year olds magically gain the critical thinking and decision making ability of an adult.

As the wide variety of ages of consent around the world (of even the country) show you, you can't draw the line at a certain age, at all. It needs to be determined completely on a case-by-case basis, whether consent was able to be given.

but 18 year olds are certainly better equipped than 14 year olds.

under what circumstances do you think a fourteen year old girl can give consent to allow her teacher to manipulate her? how is it okay? because her perception of the situation is positive?

so we let kids determine if they're ready to have sex with their adult teachers. how does a public school's hr department handle such nonsense?

Edited August 28, 2013 by val erie

[Penny Lane 8,159]

My question was my answer. I was pointing out we already place differences on the crime like statutory rape or whatever other legal classifications we have for rape. Or maybe you (Maybe that was val?) were right about the assault charges being a separate add on charge in the case of a brutal rape. Look, I don't mean to make this into a big thing and I don't mean to take away from the seriousness of this case, but in my mind I'm more appalled by the more violent a rape is. Its not unlike my mentality of murder if you consider a serial killer doing it for pleasure and a mobster doing it for business. They both committed murder, but its different you know. I think for rape, circumstances have to play some role.

I don't personally think murdering for pleasure or business is all that different. The end result is the same.

[GandD 5,966]

I don't personally think murdering for pleasure or business is all that different. The end result is the same.

So Murder1, Murder2, and Manslaughter should be combined into one?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

So Murder1, Murder2, and Manslaughter should be combined into one?

No. I think intent when it comes to murder is important in the eyes of the law.

But if one of my family members gets murdered, I probably wouldn't care if it was for business or pleasure.

[Darnell 8,478]

rape of an underage child usually has different sentencing than rape of an adult.

In Texas, even if it was consensual with the underage child, the State considers it rape plus a whole lot of other stuff.

IMO, that teacher got off easy the first time and the second time. I hope Montana will change it's laws (or has already done so) because of this one case.

[GandD 5,966]

No. I think intent when it comes to murder is important in the eyes of the law.

But if one of my family members gets murdered, I probably wouldn't care if it was for business or pleasure.

Yeah but then your rationality would be out the window. You can't make laws with emotions. Impartial third parties have to be the ones making laws I would think.

The guy that kills someone to wear their skin is clearly under the need for different sentencing than a guy that is trying to consolidate his power.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Yeah but then your rationality would be out the window. You can't make laws with emotions. Impartial third parties have to be the ones making laws I would think.

The guy that kills someone to wear their skin is clearly under the need for different sentencing than a guy that is trying to consolidate his power.

Of course. I'm not talking about law making, though. In the eyes of the law, I absolutely agree that there are levels of crime and different levels get different punishments.

What I'm saying, in relation to this case, is that this story isn't "less bad" than any other rape story just because it didn't include violence. It included possible emotional manipulation which can be just as damaging as any physical injuries.

[GandD 5,966]

Of course. I'm not talking about law making, though. In the eyes of the law, I absolutely agree that there are levels of crime and different levels get different punishments.

What I'm saying, in relation to this case, is that this story isn't "less bad" than any other rape story just because it didn't include violence. It included possible emotional manipulation which can be just as damaging as any physical injuries.

What if all things were the same in this case except he grabbed her, beat her, and raped her. I would think that would deserve more punishment. I'd say life in jail at that point. For this guy, I'd say 15 years. At least he isn't violent.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

What if all things were the same in this case except he grabbed her, beat her, and raped her. I would think that would deserve more punishment. I'd say life in jail at that point. For this guy, I'd say 15 years. At least he isn't violent.

Why does grabbing and beating deserve more punishment than grooming, possible emotional abuse, and taking advantage of his authority over her?

As long as it isn't violent, it's "less bad"? And deserves less punishment?

In a way, I actually find it scarier.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Penny Lane

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

Sounds like a fair sentence to me. We are in the US right?

[duraaraa 203]

We're talking about trickery being as bad as rape? I think, though, that adults can trick each other into sexual relationships just as easily. If I lie to an 18 year old at a bar and say I'm a millionaire, and I own companies, and they want to sleep with me because of that, I tricked them into sleeping with me. They didn't want to sleep with the real me. Why isn't that rape, then?

[Jacque67 7,328]

We don't know all the facts of the relationship. If the teacher groomed her and used his position of authority and so on, sure, it's completely wrong, and I agree with the girl's mother.

*puts quarter into Devil's Advocate pinball machine*

To play devil's advocate, though, it's not entirely impossible that the girl wasn't interested in the teacher on a sexual level, and what drove her to suicide is the fact that this got out, and it caused her lover so much trouble. In other words, if a relationship between a 14 year old and a 40-some-odd year-old was as acceptable as one between a 16 (or 18 depending on the state) year old's would have been, perhaps this would not have resulted in her death.

14 year olds are not little kids (according to the judge, anyway, she seemed older than a normal 14 year old.) I think people usually have sexual desires at 14, if not younger. There are countries where the age of consent is as low as 12 (Japan) or 13 (Spain), and 14 is very, very common in developed countries for an age of consent (Austria, Estonia, Germany, Italy, etc.) I think it's a question of whether or not the relationship was consensual. Maybe the judge felt that it was?

The age of consent in Japan is not 12! Complete tosh!

As for sexual desires, if both the people in the relationship are around the same age. But if one of them is a lot older and in a position of power, the older person should be more responsible and control their desires.

[Jacque67 7,328]

We're talking about trickery being as bad as rape? I think, though, that adults can trick each other into sexual relationships just as easily. If I lie to an 18 year old at a bar and say I'm a millionaire, and I own companies, and they want to sleep with me because of that, I tricked them into sleeping with me. They didn't want to sleep with the real me. Why isn't that rape, then?

I think a young teenager is less able to deal emotionally with any trickery.

This is a question of morals and ethics. The teacher is in his 40s and should be better able to controls his hormones than a young teenager. He knows the laws in the US, and should have waited until the girl was older before beginning a sexual relationship. It''s not as though he was drunk at a bar and picked her up without realizing her age!

I have always managed to control such temptations in my life because I have my own moral code, which generally fits in with the laws of the country I am living in thank goodness.

This guy needs psychiatric help and to be kept in isolation from society.