Travel Question (merged)

[Waitinggent 2]

My wife is from St. Petersburg, Russia but she is a Ukrainian citizen. As a green card holder, she has had no trouble flying from the USA to Russia (to visit her children) using her Ukrainian passport. But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, will she be able to continue this? Will the airlines still allow her on a plane to Russia using a Ukrainian passport if she shows her American passport as her means of re-entry into the USA (instead of the current Green Card that she is using)? Any Ukrainian Americans out there who fly to Russia? Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

[BigDaddy28 228]

Yes she will become a dual citizen

she shows the US passport to enter and exit the US. Use the Ukrainian passport to enter and exit Russia. Good luck. The airline will not give you no hard time because you are a citizen of both countries.

[Waitinggent 2]

Yes she will become a dual citizen

she shows the US passport to enter and exit the US. Use the Ukrainian passport to enter and exit Russia. Good luck. The airline will not give you no hard time because you are a citizen of both countri

I read that Ukraine does not allow dual citizenship. So then you are saying that the USA will recognize her as a dual American/Ukrainian citizen even though Ukraine no longer considers her a citizen. I imagine Ukraine would have no way of knowing that a Ukrainian became a U.S. citizen, but still the USA would know that they are violating Ukrainianlaw by letting her use her Ukrainian passport to show citizenship there.

[TBoneTX 43,425]

*** Thread moved from U.S. Citizenship forum to the Russia/Ukraine/Belarus regional subforum -- knowledge of country policies and practices is needed. ***

[Waitinggent 2]

My wife is from St. Petersburg, Russia but she is a Ukrainian citizen. As a green card holder, she has had no trouble flying from the USA to Russia (to visit her children) using her Ukrainian passport. But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, will she be able to continue this? Will the airlines still allow her on a plane to Russia using a Ukrainian passport if she shows her American passport as her means of re-entry into the USA (instead of the current Green Card that she is using)? I understand that Ukraine does not allow dual citizenship, so this may be an issue. Any Ukrainian Americans out there who fly to Russia? Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

I reposted this to get it on the Ukrainian portal, which is probably a better place than the Russian portal it first went to.

[BigDaddy28 228]

THE US doesn't care about Ukraine and its laws if your wife becomes a citizen here, the US CANNOT TELL you to take the other citizenship off. If Ukraine doesn't allow dual citizenship with US, then whenever your wife comes back her Ukrainian passport is going to be taking away by responsible authorities in the airport or by the embassy here in the US as she has to show legal residency proof here (her US PASSPORT)

[BigDaddy28 228]

please read this thread that I found about some Ukrainian citizens having discussed that 3 years ago. Sorry for giving you the wrong info earlier, that was not my intention. Good luck.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/261458-dual-citizenship/

Forgot to put the link.

Edited July 29, 2013 by silkafi88

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My wife is from St. Petersburg, Russia but she is a Ukrainian citizen. As a green card holder, she has had no trouble flying from the USA to Russia (to visit her children) using her Ukrainian passport. But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, will she be able to continue this? Will the airlines still allow her on a plane to Russia using a Ukrainian passport if she shows her American passport as her means of re-entry into the USA (instead of the current Green Card that she is using)? I understand that Ukraine does not allow dual citizenship, so this may be an issue. Any Ukrainian Americans out there who fly to Russia? Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

I reposted this to get it on the Ukrainian portal, which is probably a better place than the Russian portal it first went to.

Alla has both a Ukrainian and US passport.

Typically she flies to Ukraine (which is where she is from) enters Ukraine with a US passport (no visa needed for 90 days) and then visits Russia using her Ukrainian passport (internal or International, either works).

When we have traveled to Russia directly she shows BOTH passports on entry to Russia. Pasha has done the same. No issues.

As far as quessing what airlines will allow...good luck. We went to Moscow last year to see Sergey's graduation. I had to obtain a Russian visa, Alla & Pasha had no Russian visa and boarded the plane and entered Russia simply showing both passports. No questions asked. We flew on Aeroflot.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My wife is from St. Petersburg, Russia but she is a Ukrainian citizen. As a green card holder, she has had no trouble flying from the USA to Russia (to visit her children) using her Ukrainian passport. But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, will she be able to continue this? Will the airlines still allow her on a plane to Russia using a Ukrainian passport if she shows her American passport as her means of re-entry into the USA (instead of the current Green Card that she is using)? I understand that Ukraine does not allow dual citizenship, so this may be an issue. Any Ukrainian Americans out there who fly to Russia? Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

I reposted this to get it on the Ukrainian portal, which is probably a better place than the Russian portal it first went to.

The situation with Ukraine not allowing dual citizenship is vague at best. The law states that dual citizenship is not allowed if so ordered by the President. The current President has not ordered that. The past one did, but no one knows if that still applies. Fr the moment they do not seem to be doing anything about it regarding dual citizenship with the US at any rate.

Russia does not enforce Ukrainian law in any case and couldn't care less. Russia allows dual citizenship in most (but not all) cases.

In order to avoid complications with border people in Ukraine, when entering Ukraine Alla shows only the US passport (since that is all that is needed) Ukraine does not require visas for US citizens. While the law is vague,,,this opens the door to be shaken down for bribes as we all know.

If your wife travels to Russia, not going through Ukraine, simply show both passports when boarding or when entering Russia. My main concern would be that the airline understands that Ukrainian citizens do not need visas to enter Russia. Aeroflot knows this, but I do not know about other airline's employees.

[Waitinggent 2]

Alla has both a Ukrainian and US passport.

Typically she flies to Ukraine (which is where she is from) enters Ukraine with a US passport (no visa needed for 90 days) and then visits Russia using her Ukrainian passport (internal or International, either works).

When we have traveled to Russia directly she shows BOTH passports on entry to Russia. Pasha has done the same. No issues.

As far as quessing what airlines will allow...good luck. We went to Moscow last year to see Sergey's graduation. I had to obtain a Russian visa, Alla & Pasha had no Russian visa and boarded the plane and entered Russia simply showing both passports. No questions asked. We flew on Aeroflot.

First, thanks for your always helpful assistance, Gary.

The airlines have always let her fly directly to Russia with a Ukrainian passport and Green card, so the airlines understand that a Ukrainian passport will get you into Russia. But I still have 2 concerns:

1) she usually visits her parents in Ukraine and then her children in Russia, or vice versa. If she flies to Ukraine first, and uses her American passport, she would also have to use her American passport to exit as well as show her UKrainian passport to show that she can enter Russia. To show both a Ukrainian and American passport in Ukraine seems to risk them confiscating her Ukrainian passport. Also, with her name being Ukrainian, and her U.S. passport showing that she was born in Ukraine, isn't there some risk that they would check to see if she is also still listed as a Ukrainian citizen, and then trouble can arise.? Obviously this has not happened to Alla yet, but I am wondering if it wouldn't be better to continue to use her Ukrainian passport for entering and exiting Ukraine rather than her American passport. What do you think?

2) did you travel directly back from Russia to the USA? My wife is not concerned with entering Russia directly as she can just show her Ukrainian passport to passport control. She is concerned about leaving Russia directly back to the USA where she has to show both passports.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I read that Ukraine does not allow dual citizenship. So then you are saying that the USA will recognize her as a dual American/Ukrainian citizen even though Ukraine no longer considers her a citizen. I imagine Ukraine would have no way of knowing that a Ukrainian became a U.S. citizen, but still the USA would know that they are violating Ukrainianlaw by letting her use her Ukrainian passport to show citizenship there.

The US will consider her a US citizen. Period.

The US does not recognize dual citizenship nor does it prohibit dual citizenship. They do not care and it matters not at all to them. You are a US citizen, period. You are obligated to comply with all the responsibilities of a US citizen. The USA could not possibly care less about Ukrainian law. If you want to remain a dual citizen, then you must comply with BOTH country's laws but the USA does not care if you do or not.

In the view of the USA you are a US citizen, or you are not a US citizen.

Ukraine does not "automatically" revoke her citizenship and Ukraine will never know she became a US citizen unless you tell them (the US does not tell them, nor does the US take her Ukraine passport) Her citizenship in Ukraine MAY be revoked if ordered by the President of Ukraine...currently there is no such order. Even then the order does not "revoke citizenship", that is a legal process in itself.

No law is violtaed in entering Ukraine or using her Ukraine passport unless her citizenship has been revoked. why would that happen?

When she becomes a US citizen she WILL BE a dual citizen. But neither country cares about the other.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

First, thanks for your always helpful assistance, Gary.

The airlines have always let her fly directly to Russia with a Ukrainian passport and Green card, so the airlines understand that a Ukrainian passport will get you into Russia. But I still have 2 concerns:

1) she usually visits her parents in Ukraine and then her children in Russia, or vice versa. If she flies to Ukraine first, and uses her American passport, she would also have to use her American passport to exit as well as show her UKrainian passport to show that she can enter Russia. To show both a Ukrainian and American passport in Ukraine seems to risk them confiscating her Ukrainian passport. Also, with her name being Ukrainian, and her U.S. passport showing that she was born in Ukraine, isn't there some risk that they would check to see if she is also still listed as a Ukrainian citizen, and then trouble can arise.? Obviously this has not happened to Alla yet, but I am wondering if it wouldn't be better to continue to use her Ukrainian passport for entering and exiting Ukraine rather than her American passport. What do you think?

2) did you travel directly back from Russia to the USA? My wife is not concerned with entering Russia directly as she can just show her Ukrainian passport to passport control. She is concerned about leaving Russia directly back to the USA where she has to show both passports.

OK, so here I will explain again. It can get a bit confusing.

1. When entering UKRAINE from the United States as we usually do, Alla and Pasha show US passports and enter Ukraine without visas for 90 days as US citizens. Period.

2. When entering RUSSIA from Ukraine, she shows ONLY her Ukrainian passport (either internal or international, either works) When returning to Ukraine FROM Russia, she shows her Ukrainian passport. UNLESS it is on a flight through Russia where we only changed planes and did not "enter" Russia.

3. When entering RUSSIA from the United States, as we did last summer, she shows BOTH passports. Why? To get the US passport stamped as well as the Ukrainian passport. Russia could not care less about Ukrainian citizenship laws and in fact would issue Alla or the boys Russian citizenship if they asked for it (they are listed as "Russian" nationality in the Ukraine passport and on their birth certificates) If we then travel to Ukraine from Russia, as we did, she shows a Ukrainian passport with stamps from Russia. So it is not like she "dropped out of the sky" into Russia. When returning to the USA she shows both passports, they really only care to see the US passport though.

Our trips to Russia are usually done as "side trips" on visits to Ukraine. We fly to Donetsk, stay there a while, go to Moscow for a few days...maybe by train, more often now by flying but it is a separate ticket. Alla's Ukraine passport is in her maiden name, her US passport in the married name. She carries a name change certificate with her but never gets asked for it. If asked she just says it is her maiden name. Last year we reversed it to attend the graduation and flew to Moscow, then a few days later to Donetsk, then back to the US from Donetsk. She showed he Ukraine passport to enter Ukraine and her US passport to leave. No questions. There are so many stamps on there anyway, who could figure it out? There never has been any issues.

This really is not such an issue as you might imagine. A few months ago a member was "stuck" in Ukraine for more than 90 days because of a family illness. She had entered using her US passport. She just went and explained it to the authorities and had no problem, they just told her "You are a Ukraine citizen, what is the problem?" Also the whole "dual citizenship" issue was more about their spats with Russia over gas supplies or Russian agression in FSU countries. They are friendly with the US and really don't care about that.

The thing we worry about is being shaken down for bribes by Ukrainian border authorities. That would be the worst case scenario anyway.

The caveat with Ukraine, as always, is that the situation may change. As for now, that is how it has worked. We know several other US citizens from Ukraine that do the same and have had no issues

I think you could probably just use the Ukraine passport, the only issue with that is that when you leave Ukraine or Russia, you will need to show the US passport to the airline to board the plane. Since Ukraine and Russia also have passport control when you LEAVE they check the ticket against the passport and will see you have no visa to enter the USA...they may not let you pass. Showing a US passport to leave with no entry stamp could cause problems, I doubt it, but it could.

There is no downside to using the US passport to enter Ukraine, except being limited to a 90 day stay

No one has ever checked if she is also a Ukraine citizen or even asked. She makes no secret that she speaks Russian or is "from Ukraine" Naturalized US citizens from Ukraine are not a rarity at all. Just not a big deal.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

please read this thread that I found about some Ukrainian citizens having discussed that 3 years ago. Sorry for giving you the wrong info earlier, that was not my intention. Good luck.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/261458-dual-citizenship/

Forgot to put the link.

Since I replied to that thread with information that was correct AT THAT TIME, I want to point out that Ukraine elected a new President in January 2010, just a few months before that thread was posted and Yanukovich has not invoked the provision forbidding dual citizenship as the previous President had in 2008.

As I said, in that thread and now also...the law is vague, the law can be interpreted by whoever is the current President or even by border guards shaking down travelers for bribes. Also, since that thread, Alla has become a US citizen and we have some actual experience with this. Basically, keep quiet about it and no one knows or cares.

[vbtwo 54]

According to the US embassy:

Ukraine does not recognize dual nationality. Local authorities will treat dual nationals entering the country on Ukrainian passports as citizens of Ukraine. This may include fulfilling requirements for mandatory military service. In addition, individuals who do not relinquish their Ukrainian citizenship upon acquiring U.S. citizenship face potential fines.

I have never heard of anybody getting fined for not relinquishing Ukrainian citizenship, or ever heard of anybody have any trouble upon entering or leaving using either the Ukrainian or US passports. You might have trouble if you're a male of conscript age.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

According to the US embassy:

Ukraine does not recognize dual nationality. Local authorities will treat dual nationals entering the country on Ukrainian passports as citizens of Ukraine. This may include fulfilling requirements for mandatory military service. In addition, individuals who do not relinquish their Ukrainian citizenship upon acquiring U.S. citizenship face potential fines.

I have never heard of anybody getting fined for not relinquishing Ukrainian citizenship, or ever heard of anybody have any trouble upon entering or leaving using either the Ukrainian or US passports. You might have trouble if you're a male of conscript age.

Good information and very accurate I would say "Potential fines" is a good way to put it since the law is definitely "cloudy" and impossible to define. The "possible fines" are more likely "having to pay possible bribes"

Regarding conscription, YES both are boys have student deferrments and we file for them every year. It is rumored that Ukraine will go to a volunteer military in the next year or so.

There has never been any question as to why they are getting their education in the USA. (Sergey was in Russia before but now in the USA)