non-binding religious wedding allowed?

[ftr_mrs_f 0]

These damm POE officers have to understand that not every culture has the same beliefs and they too have customs and traditions that need to be considered.

ditto! we want a religious ceremony first too, i emailed the embassy and they told me to ask my religious leader if it was possible to do things in that order, and he said yes, so, i just hope we have no problem; they're supposed to respect other cultures' traditions, and mostly, what people consider their family values. Good luck!

[Yodrak 7]

matt,

I think that POE officers do understand that there are differences, but it is not reasonable for them to know what the differences might be for each of several hundred countries. If there's a question, it's quite reasonably the responsibility of the person requesting entry to prove an alleged difference.

Yodrak

Im doing the same thing as Bill in a couple days. These damm POE officers have to understand that not every culture has the same beliefs and they too have customs and traditions that need to be considered. Granted as long as you dont sign any legal document.

[Randy 0]

Im doing the same thing as Bill in a couple days. These damm POE officers have to understand that not every culture has the same beliefs and they too have customs and traditions that need to be considered. Granted as long as you dont sign any legal document.

Hey Matt,

I also did this earlier this month after sending an email to my attorney, who in turn, sent one to the embassy to verify it would not be a hindrance to approval. The embassy's reply was basically "yes, we understand the difference between a religious and legal wedding and the religious in no way compromises the approval process.

We had a wonderful ceremony in northern Thailand. I know this topic had really been beat to death here on VJ with many people talking about "risking" your approval or entrance at the POE. The COs at the embassy's are typically very familiar with local laws. As for the POE guys...I have heard lots of people say you can never predict what they will do. True, but I have yet to see a single person say they were turned back at the POE because they had a religious only ceremony. Maybe there has been a posting to this affect, but I have not seen it.

Just my opinion and decision on how I proceeded.

Hope your ceremony is as wonderful and heart felt as mine!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Randy

[zyggy 9]

Im doing the same thing as Bill in a couple days. These damm POE officers have to understand that not every culture has the same beliefs and they too have customs and traditions that need to be considered. Granted as long as you dont sign any legal document.

Hey Matt,

I also did this earlier this month after sending an email to my attorney, who in turn, sent one to the embassy to verify it would not be a hindrance to approval. The embassy's reply was basically "yes, we understand the difference between a religious and legal wedding and the religious in no way compromises the approval process.

We had a wonderful ceremony in northern Thailand. I know this topic had really been beat to death here on VJ with many people talking about "risking" your approval or entrance at the POE. The COs at the embassy's are typically very familiar with local laws. As for the POE guys...I have heard lots of people say you can never predict what they will do. True, but I have yet to see a single person say they were turned back at the POE because they had a religious only ceremony. Maybe there has been a posting to this affect, but I have not seen it.

Just my opinion and decision on how I proceeded.

Hope your ceremony is as wonderful and heart felt as mine!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Randy

There have been several postings to this effect... On top of that as a CBP officer, I have personally sent back a couple who tried this...

If there is any doubt whether the alien meets the terms of the visa or not, their visa will be cancelled and they will be sent back. The CBP has the right and the duty to do this... The only way to stop it is if you can provide ironclad proof that you are NOT legally married while you're standing at the POE... it is easy to prove that one is married.. it is near impossible to prove that one is not...

You have spent all this time and energy to do everything right.. why on earth would you want to take the risk that could cause it all to fall down like a house of cards. If a religious ceremony is important to you, do it after you have had the legal wedding in the US... or change your plan and get a K3 or CR-1. Bending the immigration rules to suit your own ends is a recipe for failure...

I find it ironic that the people who are adamant about getting a K-1 are more than happy to encourage someone to do an act that has the possibility of making them go back to square one...

Edited November 29, 2006 by zyggy

[ceriserose 1]

And let's also note here that the posters who aren't having a problem with a non-legal religious ceremony are not coming out of Manila embassy as the OP is. The Thailand consulate may be completely on board with the concept and the Manila one not so much.

I can give a lot of information about Canada, with about as much relevance for the OP...

[maya62 7]

I am finally posting a response to one of these threads after reading a bunch of them and restraining myself. As someone who did have a religious, non-legal ceremony in my husband's country, and then fretted about it until the greencards were issued, I can say for my part that, although I love my husband dearly, I love his country dearly, I love his family dearly and I wanted them all to be happy, it was not worth the worry. If I had it to do over, I would've had just an engagement party.

I feel 100% confident that we are and were on the right side of the law the entire time, but I did NOT have confidence that all the officials whose hoops we had to jump through would see things the same way.

We did what William33 did, in hopes of doing DCF. When I got back to the states, I called USCIS in a panic and the IO laughed and told me to relax and file for the K1. Then I started reading about how the USCIS help line was called the MISinformation line, so I decided to check with an attorney. I checked with an immigration attorney, then a sort of multi-purpose attorney from my husband's home country who practices in NYC, then I sent my husband to check with an attorney from a list on the website of the US Consulate in my husband's home country. They all said we'd be fine. I saved everything they wrote in a special notebook to use in case of emergency.

I also ran across a case decision on the USCIS website that basically concluded that if a marriage is not legal enough to use to issue a K3, then it is not legal enough to REFUSE to issue a K1! Save that, too.

My (then) fiance was asked at the consular interview whether we had had some kind of a celebration! I had really stressed to him that he must not, under any circumstances, lie to the CO. I think the attorney that we checked with there, who was sanctioned by the Consulate, must've told the Consulate about our question. If that was the case, then the real test was whether my fiance would tell the truth about it. He did, and was issued a visa.

We mailed our photos back rather than carrying them in our bags when we traveled to the US. The CPB officer did not ask about a ceremony, but I was worried about it.

In fact, I worried right up to the AOS interview. As I said before... I was and am completely confident that we have obeyed the law, but it wasn't worth it to always be worrying about whether the next official would ask about it, how my husband would answer (English is his 4th language and he is from a high fraud country), and how the official would interpret that answer.

Just not worth it, imho. Listen to Zyggy! I completely agree with those who suggest a nice, safe engagement party. If you read this far, thanks! I'm glad to finally feel free to write about this issue.

Maya

Edited November 29, 2006 by maya62

[ceriserose 1]

I am finally posting a response to one of these threads after reading a bunch of them and restraining myself. As someone who did have a religious, non-legal ceremony in my husband's country, and then fretted about it until the greencards were issued, I can say for my part that, although I love my husband dearly, I love his country dearly, I love his family dearly and I wanted them all to be happy, it was not worth the worry. If I had it to do over, I would've had just an engagement party.

I feel 100% confident that we are and were on the right side of the law the entire time, but I did NOT have confidence that all the officials whose hoops we had to jump through would see things the same way.

We did what William33 did, in hopes of doing DCF. When I got back to the states, I called USCIS in a panic and the IO laughed and told me to relax and file for the K1. Then I started reading about how the USCIS help line was called the MISinformation line, so I decided to check with an attorney. I checked with an immigration attorney, then a sort of multi-purpose attorney from my husband's home country who practices in NYC, then I sent my husband to check with an attorney from a list on the website of the US Consulate in my husband's home country. They all said we'd be fine. I saved everything they wrote in a special notebook to use in case of emergency.

I also ran across a case decision on the USCIS website that basically concluded that if a marriage is not legal enough to use to issue a K3, then it is not legal enough to REFUSE to issue a K1! Save that, too.

My (then) fiance was asked at the consular interview whether we had had some kind of a celebration! I had really stressed to him that he must not, under any circumstances, lie to the CO. I think the attorney that we checked with there, who was sanctioned by the Consulate, must've told the Consulate about our question. If that was the case, then the real test was whether my fiance would tell the truth about it. He did, and was issued a visa.

We mailed our photos back rather than carrying them in our bags when we traveled to the US. The CPB officer did not ask about a ceremony, but I was worried about it.

In fact, I worried right up to the AOS interview. As I said before... I was and am completely confident that we have obeyed the law, but it wasn't worth it to always be worrying about whether the next official would ask about it, how my husband would answer (English is his 4th language and he is from a high fraud country), and how the official would interpret that answer.

Just not worth it, imho. Listen to Zyggy! I completely agree with those who suggest a nice, safe engagement party. If you read this far, thanks! I'm glad to finally feel free to write about this issue.

Maya

I'm glad you finally got your greencards!

[Yodrak 7]

cerisrose,

The US consular officers in Thailand are completely on board with the marriage laws and customs of Thailand. I expect that the consular officers in Manilla are similarly on board with the marriage laws and customs of the Philippines, and the consular officers in the various consulates in Canada with the marriage laws and customs of Canada.

What needs to be noted is that the marriage laws and customs of Thailand, the Philipines, and Canada may have some differences with each other, and more importantly differences with the USA. Consular officers know their host country - CBP and CIS officers know the USA, and therein lies the potential problem.

Yodrak

And let's also note here that the posters who aren't having a problem with a non-legal religious ceremony are not coming out of Manila embassy as the OP is. The Thailand consulate may be completely on board with the concept and the Manila one not so much.

I can give a lot of information about Canada, with about as much relevance for the OP...

Edited November 29, 2006 by Yodrak

[ceriserose 1]

I'm completely on board with what you're saying, but it wasn't the point I was making.

Regardless of who takes what angle on it, my point was not regarding the differences between how consulate agents and CBP/CIS agents view the matter. My point was that face-value comments/experiences from people going through Thailand hold less specific relevance to a person going through Manila.

So that when the OP comes back and sees all those bringing in a loved one from Thailand saying how they did it and it was readily embraced by the conoff in Thailand, they recognize that Manila may not operate the same way and possibly delve deeper to find out experiences of those going through Manila.

I've seen it too many times here where people don't recognize or seem to understand that consulates and their procedures are as disparate as countries (go figure!).

cerisrose,

The US consular officers in Thailand are completely on board with the marriage laws and customs of Thailand. I expect that the consular officers in Manilla are similarly on board with the marriage laws and customs of the Philippines, and the consular officers in the various consulates in Canada with the marriage laws and customs of Canada.

What needs to be noted is that the marriage laws and customs of Thailand, the Philipines, and Canada may have some differences with each other, and more importantly differences with the USA. Consular officers know their host country - CBP and CIS officers know the USA, and therein lies the potential problem.

Yodrak

And let's also note here that the posters who aren't having a problem with a non-legal religious ceremony are not coming out of Manila embassy as the OP is. The Thailand consulate may be completely on board with the concept and the Manila one not so much.

I can give a lot of information about Canada, with about as much relevance for the OP...

[Yodrak 7]

ceriserose,

Excellent point - I was trying to re-inforce it but apparently didn't do that very well.

It's important that people who want to have ceremonies in their fiance(e)'s country know the marriage laws of that particular country and be able to document those laws in case they are questioned.

Yodrak

I'm completely on board with what you're saying, but it wasn't the point I was making.

Regardless of who takes what angle on it, my point was not regarding the differences between how consulate agents and CBP/CIS agents view the matter. My point was that face-value comments/experiences from people going through Thailand hold less specific relevance to a person going through Manila.

....

cerisrose,

The US consular officers in Thailand are completely on board with the marriage laws and customs of Thailand. I expect that the consular officers in Manilla are similarly on board with the marriage laws and customs of the Philippines, and the consular officers in the various consulates in Canada with the marriage laws and customs of Canada.

What needs to be noted is that the marriage laws and customs of Thailand, the Philipines, and Canada may have some differences with each other, and more importantly differences with the USA. Consular officers know their host country - CBP and CIS officers know the USA, and therein lies the potential problem.

Yodrak

And let's also note here that the posters who aren't having a problem with a non-legal religious ceremony are not coming out of Manila embassy as the OP is. The Thailand consulate may be completely on board with the concept and the Manila one not so much.

I can give a lot of information about Canada, with about as much relevance for the OP...

[mRx 16]

You have spent all this time and energy to do everything right.. why on earth would you want to take the risk that could cause it all to fall down like a house of cards

I really appreciate everyones input on this. Zyggy, its not that i really want to do the ceremony right now, personally, i wanted to do it next year. But as you Thailand folks can attest, a simple 1000 dollar ceremony can mean the difference between being accepted by the family, or the girl getting totally disowned by her entire family. Naturally, i think this is absurd, but what kind of man would I be if I allowed my fiancee to be disowned by her family? A very low one, for sure.

And yes Yodrak, I understand that the POE officers jurisdiction is the USA and has no knowledge of Thailand. Hmm perhaps we can be paranoid, and mail back all the pictures from the ceremony, instead of say, hand carrying them. Thanks again for all the input.

[orion44 0]

Thanks to everyone for their input. After all that, I'm still not sure what to do. I didn't realize at the time we filed the K1 visa how important this is to her. The funny thing is that if we did decide to get married and go the K3 route, first we would do a quick civil wedding this January in order to file the k3, and the ceremony we planned in July would still be just that; ceremonial.

I'm gathering information now, I will print out everyone's thoughts here, and present everything to her and her family when i visit again in December, and hopefully, we'll work out the best course together.

My one thought is, if she was turned down for the visa at the interview because she mentioned the ceremony, or turned around at the port of entry because of it, wouldn't it just be for the time it takes for them to check that we are indeed, not married?

thanks again, the community here in this forum has made me feel I'm not alone.

Thanks to everyone for their input. After all that, I'm still not sure what to do. I didn't realize at the time we filed the K1 visa how important this is to her. The funny thing is that if we did decide to get married and go the K3 route, first we would do a quick civil wedding this January in order to file the k3, and the ceremony we planned in July would still be just that; ceremonial.

I'm gathering information now, I will print out everyone's thoughts here, and present everything to her and her family when i visit again in December, and hopefully, we'll work out the best course together.

My one thought is, if she was turned down for the visa at the interview because she mentioned the ceremony, or turned around at the port of entry because of it, wouldn't it just be for the time it takes for them to check that we are indeed, not married?

thanks again, the community here in this forum has made me feel I'm not alone.

[HobGoblin 0]

Thanks to everyone for their input. After all that, I'm still not sure what to do. I didn't realize at the time we filed the K1 visa how important this is to her. The funny thing is that if we did decide to get married and go the K3 route, first we would do a quick civil wedding this January in order to file the k3, and the ceremony we planned in July would still be just that; ceremonial.

I'm gathering information now, I will print out everyone's thoughts here, and present everything to her and her family when i visit again in December, and hopefully, we'll work out the best course together.

My one thought is, if she was turned down for the visa at the interview because she mentioned the ceremony, or turned around at the port of entry because of it, wouldn't it just be for the time it takes for them to check that we are indeed, not married?

thanks again, the community here in this forum has made me feel I'm not alone.

Hi,

You can send an email to the consulate and ask them directly. I did that and they said

having the cultural ceremony in SL and the civil ceremony in the USA is ok wrt to K-1 visa

because cultural ceremony is not a legal marriage at least in SL but you should check with

your embassy. I'm a bit apprehensive as well but I know a few people from India who

have done it. Also, you should definitely disclose this to the consulate if they ask about it.

[ceriserose 1]

Ah, I've got your ticket now.

Thanks!

ceriserose,

Excellent point - I was trying to re-inforce it but apparently didn't do that very well.

It's important that people who want to have ceremonies in their fiance(e)'s country know the marriage laws of that particular country and be able to document those laws in case they are questioned.

Yodrak

I'm completely on board with what you're saying, but it wasn't the point I was making.

Regardless of who takes what angle on it, my point was not regarding the differences between how consulate agents and CBP/CIS agents view the matter. My point was that face-value comments/experiences from people going through Thailand hold less specific relevance to a person going through Manila.

....

cerisrose,

The US consular officers in Thailand are completely on board with the marriage laws and customs of Thailand. I expect that the consular officers in Manilla are similarly on board with the marriage laws and customs of the Philippines, and the consular officers in the various consulates in Canada with the marriage laws and customs of Canada.

What needs to be noted is that the marriage laws and customs of Thailand, the Philipines, and Canada may have some differences with each other, and more importantly differences with the USA. Consular officers know their host country - CBP and CIS officers know the USA, and therein lies the potential problem.

Yodrak

And let's also note here that the posters who aren't having a problem with a non-legal religious ceremony are not coming out of Manila embassy as the OP is. The Thailand consulate may be completely on board with the concept and the Manila one not so much.

I can give a lot of information about Canada, with about as much relevance for the OP...

[payxibka 10,048]

Excellent point - I was trying to re-inforce it but apparently didn't do that very well.

I am crushed.... apparently he is human after all!