Anyone had a home visit by Homeland security?

[james&olya 1,121]

"Victorious sect" is a reference to at least several Hadith. I wish Sofiyya was here to explain it more completely and professionally. But to the best of my knowledge, it basically says that Muslims should stick to their faith and obey the requirements of their religion until Judgment Day, no matter who tries to fight them, because they will be victorious in the end. It long predates any groups who have may have hijacked the phrase to try to give their unGodly behaviors some kind of religious justification.

Thank you for enlightening us! I apologize for having such a protestant christian background and mindset. My reaction, and I am afraid many others as well, comes from a christian point of view that the battle you are in against forces of evil is entirely an individual one. Christianity as a religion or sect does have a distant history of seeing this battle in terms of the group and that was manifested in the crusades. It is unfortunate for the great majority of decent, peace loving muslims that the actions of a few have so poisoned attitudes and understanding. Even those of us who try to see other points of view often need things like this name or phrase explained so that it no longer causes us fear or alarm. I would again suggest to the OP that she go out of her way to be sure that all who are looking at her case know from the outset, before their attitudes are set, that this name is not in any way indicative of the mindset that they belong to a group that seeks victory over non-muslim groups.

I apologize as well for bringing our more rough and tumble Politics and Religion forum kind of discourse to your regional one. I saw the OP's post on the home page and didn't initially realize I was in a regional forum discussion.

[Thetechnology 4]

Hi people!

thanks to everyone who tried to help with a positive reply or a non positive,cause i beleive that critics helps too.

well i introduce my self,iam the moroccan fiancé and iam the owner of a very modest computer's shop called victorious sect's technology and i really wonder how this shop's name became the topic and not the case!!

so am going to feed the questions of some people and talk about my backgrounds of choosin this name hoping that it will end this situation of "store's name".

my shop was born in 2011 and as u know you need to follow steps and a philosophy to create a busness name,cause A good business name helps you succeed by being easy to remember"and seems i Succeeded in this " and representative of you and your business.

and as there is a stiff competition in this kind of busness here in morocco i tried to look up for a name who Expresses some challenge,thats when i was influenced by a hadith of the prophet muhamed peace be up on him who says:A group of my nation shall remain steadfast, on the truth, victorious, unharmed by those who oppose them,until the Day of Resurrection"...and muhamed didnt name this group by a name but the old shcolars of islam and not the new ones named that group by victorious sect or saved sect or survivor sect...

so i took the challenge word "victorious sect" and i added "Technology" cause i have to Determine the elements of my business wich is computers and electronics...and why i choosed victorious sect's technology and not saved or survivor sect's technology ,is to get a nice abbreviation of my shop's name so i thought that VST will sound cool then SST....so this is the story of this name.

and i dont care if this name is used from a terrorist group or no cause as i said this name was mensioned from the old scholars who lived in the past centuries...and my shop has nothing to do with any group or organization, and this word has nothing to do with terrorism and doesnt mean that,...so people who play extreme games or call ther self extreme team,is that mean that they are extremist!!!of course no its just names and words for the challenge.

and what it concern me yes iam A MUSLIM but i never been in a group who follow a man who go to the bathroom as i do,but i beleive in followin allah and his prophet and i beleive in the one nation and i hate to be a part of a group made from someone so am just a muslim dont panik!

and yo people plz just use some logic what a stupid terrorist who has a background to hurt people and who belong to a terrorist group callin themself victorious sect will use tht in a visa application!i think tht someone who wants to do a crime he will just hide his face and reality, and use a streape tease's company name or something like this...so i think its so inoncent to think in it this way.

well we are cool and we are not doing anything wrong, all we want is to be together and build our future and as she has a 12 and 15 daughters they can not be integrated here in morocco and we care to ther studies in the us and not like wht some people accuse muslims that they dont let ther girls to go to school, and as ther is more opportunities to work and study and build a nice future ther thts why we choosed to apply for a visa...and at last its our busness to apply or not "u hear me james"

and i just want to say something,in my interview first i said to the officer was good morning and she didnt respond me and the first she said is rise ur hand and swear that this relation is true!!And Through the interview one of her questions to me were when ur fiancé converted to islam i said "I THINK IN" So she judged my english expression and she said u think!!!and i said i mean first i meet her she was a muslimah like a year and half ago who means she converted in 2007 ,and for me when i used "i think" expression i was just talkin algorithm!

and then she asked me the weird question :why she converted to islam?

i said she was a buddhist and she did her research and thn she beleived in islam!

and thats when her energy changed and she said its just like that she chaged her life cause she beleived in islam?i said yes its like that...and after this i got a hail of illogical questions,so i was doin my best and i answered wht i know and i said i dont know for wht i ignore..

and i know tht my english is not tht much but i studied communication 10 years old ago and i confirm tht the lady wasnot professionel and am not her only victim but visajourney forum is full of her victims!!

so i will try to post whts happened exactly in tht interview when i have a time and thanks to everyone trying to help us and i hope that u got and understand my reply and sorry for my bad english expressions.

ALLAH SAYS in Surah Al-Hujraat

O mankind! Lo! We have created you from male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. (13)

Edited March 12, 2013 by Thetechnology

[james&olya 1,121]

Hi people!

thanks to everyone who tried to help with a positive reply or a non positive,cause i beleive that critics helps too.

well i introduce my self,iam the moroccan fiancé and iam the owner of a very modest computer's shop called victorious sect's technology and i really wonder how this shop's name became the topic and not the case!!

so am going to feed the questions of some people and talk about my backgrounds of choosin this name hoping that it will end this situation of "store's name".

my shop was born in 2011 and as u know you need to follow steps and a philosophy to create a busness name,cause A good business name helps you succeed by being easy to remember"and seems i Succeeded in this " and representative of you and your business.

and as there is a stiff competition in this kind of busness here in morocco i tried to look up for a name who Expresses some challenge,thats when i was influenced by a hadith of the prophet muhamed peace be up on him who says:A group of my nation shall remain steadfast, on the truth, victorious, unharmed by those who oppose them,until the Day of Resurrection"...and muhamed didnt name this group by a name but the old shcolars of islam and not the new ones named that group by victorious sect or saved sect or survivor sect...

so i took the challenge word "victorious sect" and i added "Technology" cause i have to Determine the elements of my business wich is computers and electronics...and why i choosed victorious sect's technology and not saved or survivor sect's technology ,is to get a nice abbreviation of my shop's name so i thought that VST will sound cool then SST....so this is the story of this name.

and i dont care if this name is used from a terrorist group or no cause as i said this name was mensioned from the old scholars who lived in the past centuries...and my shop has nothing to do with any group or organization, and this word has nothing to do with terrorism and doesnt mean that,...so people who play extreme games or call ther self extreme team,is that mean that they are extremist!!!of course no its just names and words for the challenge.

and what it concern me yes iam A MUSLIM but i never been in a group who follow a man who go to the bathroom as i do,but i beleive in followin allah and his prophet and i beleive in the one nation and i hate to be a part of a group made from someone so am just a muslim dont panik!

and yo people plz just use some logic what a stupid terrorist who has a background to hurt people and who belong to a terrorist group callin themself victorious sect will use tht in a visa application!i think tht someone who wants to do a crime he will just hide his face and reality, and use a streape tease's company name or something like this...so i think its so inoncent to think in it this way.

well we are cool and we are not doing anything wrong, all we want is to be together and build our future and as she has a 12 and 15 daughters they can not be integrated here in morocco and we care to ther studies in the us and not like wht some people accuse muslims that they dont let ther girls to go to school, and as ther is more opportunities to work and study and build a nice future ther thts why we choosed to apply for a visa...and at last its our busness to apply or not "u hear me james"

and i just want to say something,in my interview first i said to the officer was good morning and she didnt respond me and the first she said is rise ur hand and swear that this relation is true!!And Through the interview one of her questions to me were when ur fiancé converted to islam i said "I THINK IN" So she judged my english expression and she said u think!!!and i said i mean first i meet her she was a muslimah like a year and half ago who means she converted in 2007 ,and for me when i used "i think" expression i was just talkin algorithm!

and then she asked me the weird question :why she converted to islam?

i said she was a buddhist and she did her research and thn she beleived in islam!

and thats when her energy changed and she said its just like that she chaged her life cause she beleived in islam?i said yes its like that...and after this i got a hail of illogical questions,so i was doin my best and i answered wht i know and i said i dont know for wht i ignore..

and i know tht my english is not tht much but i studied communication 10 years old ago and i confirm tht the lady wasnot professionel and am not her only victim but visajourney forum is full of her victims!!

so i will try to post whts happened exactly in tht interview when i have a time and thanks to everyone trying to help us and i hope that u got and understand my reply and sorry for my bad english expressions.

ALLAH SAYS in Surah Al-Hujraat

O mankind! Lo! We have created you from male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. (13)

You sound like a decent person. I hope you and your fiance are soon together and have a happy and prosperous life together. Dealing with DHS you must understand that they are under enormous pressure to prevent another terrorist attack on the US. While it would obviously seem illogical that a terrorist would openly use a name that made them sound like a terrorist it will still draw attention if a person's business name sounds suspicious. Just like here in the US you cannot even make a joke about having a bomb or explosives when in an airport. I hope all the people at DHS can avoid the all too human impulse to make judgments about people when they first meet or, as in those of us applying for visas, when they read our initial paperwork. Some people would suggest that would be giving them too much credit to assume they can withold even subconsciously judging someone before all the facts are present. In a court of law you are innocent till proven guilty. This is different. Here, if you are coming from countries considered high risk (morocco?) you are probably considered guilty until proven innocent, at least when applying for a visa. Fair? Perhaps not. But the mission of DHS is safety, not fairness. Good luck!

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

You sound like a decent person. I hope you and your fiance are soon together and have a happy and prosperous life together. Dealing with DHS you must understand that they are under enormous pressure to prevent another terrorist attack on the US. While it would obviously seem illogical that a terrorist would openly use a name that made them sound like a terrorist it will still draw attention if a person's business name sounds suspicious. Just like here in the US you cannot even make a joke about having a bomb or explosives when in an airport. I hope all the people at DHS can avoid the all too human impulse to make judgments about people when they first meet or, as in those of us applying for visas, when they read our initial paperwork. Some people would suggest that would be giving them too much credit to assume they can withold even subconsciously judging someone before all the facts are present. In a court of law you are innocent till proven guilty. This is different. Here, if you are coming from countries considered high risk (morocco?) you are probably considered guilty until proven innocent, at least when applying for a visa. Fair? Perhaps not. But the mission of DHS is safety, not fairness. Good luck!

She's never going to know what triggered the DHS visit unless there is something she's not sharing. Believe it or not sometimes their investigations are completely arbitrary. I live in Brooklyn and have seen many in the Muslim communities of NYC go through so much harassment, denial of civil liberties, and anguish at the hands of the NYPD, and to a lesser extent the FBI, simply because of their religion and not because they have done anything wrong. More often than not those investigations gleaned nothing valuable. But trust in law enforcement in that community has been damaged, who knows if it can ever be mended.

As I said, I have been interviewed and debriefed by CBP and DHS when I arrived back from Yemen the last 2 times. I had the same DHS officer interview me both times actually. He was a retired Marine who was at Camp Lejeune and my brother is stationed there now so we chit chatted about the Corps. They're normal folks like the rest of us with a job to do, a job we should all be grateful for. This last time I told them I filed the I-129F petition for my fiance and they did some checking and purportedly found it in some database. I also offered to show them photos from the trip and they just said nah, you're good to go, thank you for your patience. That was that. There was another lady there who was almost yelling at CBP because she was afraid to miss her connection. She went nowhere fast. So you treat them with respect and they'll reciprocate. Hell, they may even crack a joke or two.

As for immigration, certain MENA Embassies often state in private communique that they consider all cases to be fraudulent until proven otherwise. That's fine and understandable somehow. What irks me is that assumptions are enough for them, not proof, to deny. But DOS right to "reasonable assertion" has been upheld in a court of law so this is what we're stuck with.

Glad to see the fiance of the OP come to the forum. I can't get mine to come on VJ and he thinks I spend way too much time on here . It's hard to give advice with knowing little about your application and the bits of info you divulged from the interview but my best advice is again to file an FOIA request which will take some time, and while you wait go over every last scrap of paper in your application and even in your private emails/chat logs again. Try to look at everything through the eyes of a Consular Officer. Getting married, tempting as it is, won't help if underlying issues are not adequately addressed before you proceed with a new application.

I'm rooting for you both! All the best

Edited March 13, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

Thank you for enlightening us! I apologize for having such a protestant christian background and mindset. My reaction, and I am afraid many others as well, comes from a christian point of view that the battle you are in against forces of evil is entirely an individual one. Christianity as a religion or sect does have a distant history of seeing this battle in terms of the group and that was manifested in the crusades. It is unfortunate for the great majority of decent, peace loving muslims that the actions of a few have so poisoned attitudes and understanding. Even those of us who try to see other points of view often need things like this name or phrase explained so that it no longer causes us fear or alarm. I would again suggest to the OP that she go out of her way to be sure that all who are looking at her case know from the outset, before their attitudes are set, that this name is not in any way indicative of the mindset that they belong to a group that seeks victory over non-muslim groups.

I apologize as well for bringing our more rough and tumble Politics and Religion forum kind of discourse to your regional one. I saw the OP's post on the home page and didn't initially realize I was in a regional forum discussion.

I don't recall the OP ever saying it was because of her screen name on this forum or her fiance's store name that she was visited by DHS. It could have had something to do with it but maybe not. We'll never know. But truly if the Feds really had concerns about her they wouldn't have shown up at her door. They would tail her from afar, building a case, and she may never have known they were there. Those guys who get arrested occasionally for bomb plots, do you really think they knew they were being surveilled?

I'm a Unitarian Universalist so I also understand that perspective, though I have always believed the Crusades to be one of many, many horrible blemishes of Christianity. The Inquisition is up there too. But once I started learning Arabic I came to the realization that so many words that can inspire fear in us are either just normal words or their real meaning is something different than what we're told. Jihad being a perfect example. Doesn't mean holy war. It means the struggle to do good for your home/community/nation in the name of God.

Despite my respect for my fiance's faith there are things I disagree with, which is why I never see myself converting. And despite his respect for my faith there are things he disagrees with. There are lots of interfaith couples who grapple with the same issues and deal with them in similar ways.

Terrorist groups like the ones calling themselves "Victorious Sect" are nutty extremists who believe the Crusades never ended and that their brand/version of their religion demands they win it for their team by any means possible. It is debatable to even call them Muslims because they violate so many basic tenants like by killing innocent people and women and children. Unfortunately the narrative so many people get over here in the States is that all Muslims have a hive mentality. Or to put it another way (thus outing myself as a geek), they are the Borg. This is laughable and crazy to me because like every other religion their population runs the gamut from extremely traditional to very open and secular and everything in between. Faith means different things to different people across the board. Some believe scripture is verbatim the word of God and follow it without question and some see the texts as guides for how to live their lives.

As for rough and tumble, that's why I don't visit the P&R subforum. I wouldn't be getting my work done at the office if I started in on that .

Edited March 13, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[james&olya 1,121]

I don't recall the OP ever saying it was because of her screen name on this forum or her fiance's store name that she was visited by DHS. It could have had something to do with it but maybe not. We'll never know. But truly if the Feds really had concerns about her they wouldn't have shown up at her door. They would tail her from afar, building a case, and she may never have known they were there. Those guys who get arrested occasionally for bomb plots, do you really think they knew they were being surveilled?

I'm a Unitarian Universalist so I also understand that perspective, though I have always believed the Crusades to be one of many, many horrible blemishes of Christianity. The Inquisition is up there too. But once I started learning Arabic I came to the realization that so many words that can inspire fear in us are either just normal words or their real meaning is something different than what we're told. Jihad being a perfect example. Doesn't mean holy war. It means the struggle to do good for your home/community/nation in the name of God.

Despite my respect for my fiance's faith there are things I disagree with, which is why I never see myself converting. And despite his respect for my faith there are things he disagrees with. There are lots of interfaith couples who grapple with the same issues and deal with them in similar ways.

Terrorist groups like the ones calling themselves "Victorious Sect" are nutty extremists who believe the Crusades never ended and that their brand/version of their religion demands they win it for their team by any means possible. It is debatable to even call them Muslims because they violate so many basic tenants like by killing innocent people and women and children. Unfortunately the narrative so many people get over here in the States is that all Muslims have a hive mentality. Or to put it another way (thus outing myself as a geek), they are the Borg. This is laughable and crazy to me because like every other religion their population runs the gamut from extremely traditional to very open and secular and everything in between. Faith means different things to different people across the board. Some believe scripture is verbatim the word of God and follow it without question and some see the texts as guides for how to live their lives.

As for rough and tumble, that's why I don't visit the P&R subforum. I wouldn't be getting my work done at the office if I started in on that .

My concern here for the OP is that if everything else truly was in order maybe it actually did come down to something as superficial as a business name that was misinterpreted by DHS. Especially since, as another poster told us, that very name is also a name of a known terrorist group. Some of us as Americans take too much for granted our rights to free speech and being innocent till proven guilty. This does not apply in other countries and does not apply either when our government deals with foreign nationals seeking visas! And like you say, we will probably never know for a certainty what caused the K1 rejection. I was trying to get the OP to see how someone could see her online name as a possible problem but my devils advocate kind of questioning kind of back-fired on me!

I find much admirable in both Christianity as well as Islam. But I have found much to disagree with also. I have enjoyed the writings of a J. Spong who was an episcopalian bishop. He ultimately came to consider himself a 'non-theistic christian' and I have adopted that identification for myself as well.

I enjoy a little too much the lively political and occasionally religious arguments that we get going over in P&R! I usually only get on here when I am at work and it is slow but I should be trying to catch up on paperwork or at least get some sleep. But it is just too much fun matching wits with right-wingers and such. There are many that I disagree with often but nonetheless respect and like them anyway. A few are just annoying, a couple are infuriating but it is fun to try to rock their boats a little! You are right though, it is not for everyone, probably not right for most people except those of us who really enjoy a good argument! (though I hate to and almost never do argue with my wife! THAT could have significant negative consequences! )

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

My concern here for the OP is that if everything else truly was in order maybe it actually did come down to something as superficial as a business name that was misinterpreted by DHS. Especially since, as another poster told us, that very name is also a name of a known terrorist group. Some of us as Americans take too much for granted our rights to free speech and being innocent till proven guilty. This does not apply in other countries and does not apply either when our government deals with foreign nationals seeking visas! And like you say, we will probably never know for a certainty what caused the K1 rejection. I was trying to get the OP to see how someone could see her online name as a possible problem but my devils advocate kind of questioning kind of back-fired on me!

It's definitely a valid point but I think it got lost in the usual ruckus. Hopefully an FOIA report and revisiting their whole application will shed some light on the denial. I wonder/worry sometimes if my work with the BDS Movement and more recently Occupy Wall Street will put a hiccup in my fiance's application. This would be most ironic for him since he's always been apathetic about politics. But get him started on computer programming and you'll be sitting there all day...

I enjoy a little too much the lively political and occasionally religious arguments that we get going over in P&R! I usually only get on here when I am at work and it is slow but I should be trying to catch up on paperwork or at least get some sleep. But it is just too much fun matching wits with right-wingers and such. There are many that I disagree with often but nonetheless respect and like them anyway. A few are just annoying, a couple are infuriating but it is fun to try to rock their boats a little! You are right though, it is not for everyone, probably not right for most people except those of us who really enjoy a good argument! (though I hate to and almost never do argue with my wife! THAT could have significant negative consequences! )

To each their own though I enjoy riling up conservatives as much as the next guy. For me arguing online is not nearly as satisfying as in real life. I like to see the beat red in their faces and the occasional vein popping out of their necks or foreheads. I guess I'm lucky in that when I try to rile my fiance up about something political most of the time he'll say "oh really hun? that's terrible. pass the hot sauce, will you?". My friends call him the bleu cheese to my spicy buffalo wings.