My instructor's rant

[NY_BX 397]

yeah I get it-- Americans are targets, but the reasons you're talking about and the reasons he had in mind were different. I dunno if you KWIM. What you're saying is reasonable, but my instructor was not saying it the same way.

Plus I doubt I'm the typical American target. Unless I open my mouth, I'll blend a bit better than most tourist because I don't dress American.... Most Americans don't think I'm American. >.<

If he'd just said, "Be Careful, you're American in a foreign place" thats one thing. but insulting an entire region (and not even the correct region that I'm heading) as being a "BAD" place.... that is an entire other thing.

Again, I wasn't there and I'm sure s/he said many other things that might've been inappropriate. However saying that "x" region is a bad place is not an insult. There are areas in New York City that are "bad places." There are areas in every state in the US that are bad places. I also gave you the example of Juarez, Mexico being the most dangerous city in the entire world. That is not an insult, that's reality.

That said, you're right about the Un-American element of the debate. That's the insulting part. You're an American- dressed or undressed- in the US and abroad. I'm a tattooed Puertorican hippie and I certainly dressed like that while in Egypt. Outside of some curious stares, not one single f***k was given, as far as I'm concerned. I had ladies in bathrooms asking me about my body art and lifestyle and "whatnot." I noticed in America people care more, ironically.

Have a safe trip.

[NY_BX 397]

yeah I get it-- Americans are targets, but the reasons you're talking about and the reasons he had in mind were different. I dunno if you KWIM. What you're saying is reasonable, but my instructor was not saying it the same way.

Plus I doubt I'm the typical American target. Unless I open my mouth, I'll blend a bit better than most tourist because I don't dress American.... Most Americans don't think I'm American. >.<

If he'd just said, "Be Careful, you're American in a foreign place" thats one thing. but insulting an entire region (and not even the correct region that I'm heading) as being a "BAD" place.... that is an entire other thing.

ooops, double post.

Edited November 27, 2012 by NY_BX

[RFQ 110]

I get that their are dangerous places-- for sure. I'm not going out alone at night here or there! To categorize an entire region such as "The Middle East" or what he actually met "MENA" as inclusively bad is different, imho. That as ignorant as the people over their storming an embassy violently over a F-rate video on youtube.

Just because East Saint Louis may have [one of?] the highest crime rates in the US, it doesn't mean downtown Saint Louis does, or suburbs of Saint Louis. But do you think I can put that in anyone's thick skull? nope. lol.

Seriously though-- I'm ranting about it here just because I know you guys get the odd things one encounters, and I need something to do to pass the 28 days. Otherwise I would have just rolled my eyes and shook my head and let it go.

[NY_BX 397]

I get that their are dangerous places-- for sure. I'm not going out alone at night here or there! To categorize an entire region such as "The Middle East" or what he actually met "MENA" as inclusively bad is different, imho. That as ignorant as the people over their storming an embassy violently over a F-rate video on youtube.

Just because East Saint Louis may have [one of?] the highest crime rates in the US, it doesn't mean downtown Saint Louis does, or suburbs of Saint Louis. But do you think I can put that in anyone's thick skull? nope. lol.

Seriously though-- I'm ranting about it here just because I know you guys get the odd things one encounters, and I need something to do to pass the 28 days. Otherwise I would have just rolled my eyes and shook my head and let it go.

I respect your opinion, but I highly disagree. How is it that calling a region "bad" as ignorant as a violent reaction that costed lives over a video? Yes, calling an entire region bad may be ignorant if unfounded, but it's not even remotely close as becoming irrationally and dangerously violent over a..... video. The latter is not only ignorant- is criminal.

Frankly, if that's all s/he said, I really do not understand what the rant is about. It is your choice not to warn anyone about crime infested St. Louis. But I'm sure if someone told you s/he will be going there for 28 days, you'd probably warn that person about that. It's not putting it through someone else's skull. It's called civic responsibility. Being a professor myself, if a student would tell me such news, I would've done the same thing; using more appropriate words, however.

[RFQ 110]

I respect your opinion, but I highly disagree. How is it that calling a region "bad" as ignorant as a violent reaction that costed lives over a video? Yes, calling an entire region bad may be ignorant if unfounded, but it's not even remotely close as becoming irrationally and dangerously violent over a..... video. The latter is not only ignorant- is criminal.

Frankly, if that's all s/he said, I really do not understand what the rant is about. It is your choice not to warn anyone about crime infested St. Louis. But I'm sure if someone told you s/he will be going there for 28 days, you'd probably warn that person about that. It's not putting it through someone else's skull. It's called civic responsibility. Being a professor myself, if a student would tell me such news, I would've done the same thing; using more appropriate words, however.

I should have been clearer by what I meant about that. I meant in how certain people blamed the whole of America for this video. The action that they took of course is by far a greater crime. I was merely referring to the broader ignorant mentality of blaming the whole for the work of a few/one.

My point is this, I would never tell anyone not to go to Saint Louis or... New York because certain areas are crime ridden. I would say avoid this area or that area. I would not say DO NOT go to the United States of America because Compton California has gang problems. Categorically calling and entire region BAD is insulting and ignorant. I assure you that I would not get the same reaction had I said I was going to India or China or Mexico (etc) even though there are bad places to go there too. I would have been told "be careful."

But I'm done with this conversation because you've turned it into something serious. It wasn't meant to be a debate. I'm sorry my last comment was misconstrued as that I would possibly think burning and embassy was the same as ignorant labeling.

[RFQ 110]

Awesome! I know what you mean about "who's counting?" I have an Ap on my phone that counts down for me. So, every few days I would post on my Fiancee's FB page "XXdays, XXhours, XXmins, XXsecs" And end it with "But who's counting??" LOL

Thanks for the acronym clarification, NOW I feel old! HAHA

Well I am not a spring chicken and I really don't know txt speak, but I do have an honorary doctorate in forum abbreviations. haha.

well I am certain not counting the 28 days and 12 hours til my plane touches down in Cairo.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

FWIW we're taught in academics that Egypt is part of the Middle East because of it's strategic location in that it acts as a land bridge between the Middle East and North Africa. It's also commonly referred to as "the Jewel of the Middle East" because of it. It also holds the largest Arab population in the region and the largest Arab Muslim population in the world and it's a major power in the Middle East and Muslim world. These facts can be looked up in a simple Google search online and found in websites such as Wiki and the CIA world fact book. It's also considered part of North Africa so I suppose you are correct in that regards as well.

I get that you perceive your professor as ignorant of the region because you see him as saying the entire region is bad and you know better than that. I got a lot of that too from my friends and family during my nine month engagement period before going to Egypt to get married. They told me I could get kidnapped and have my head chopped off because I'm American. You know the scary things we see on television news happening in the wars that were in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the other hand I had my fiance telling me how safe it was and no one would harm me but after years of experience with the region I'm wiser. Sexual harassment of women is rampant and a real problem in Egypt. If you don't speak the language you'll be ignorant to the cat calls of the teenage boys and young men. It doesn't matter if you're covered from head to toe and the most modest pious Muslim woman the harassment targets all kinds of women there. Women journalists and even their own Egyptian women have been targeted by mobs and their own security forces for sexual attacks. You may have heard of some high profile journalists who were attacked in a mob, had their clothes ripped to shreds, and their bodies raped by fingers and hands and who knows what else coming from inside the crowd for a half hour to an hour. This has happened more than one time to more than one foreign female journalists and students who just wanted to cover or experience what is happening right now. The Egyptian women themselves have come out and spoke out against the security forces capturing them and submitting them to gross and humiliating examinations of their virtue by having military doctors and sometimes the officers themselves sticking their fingers inside them checking for a hymen while multiple soldiers stand around the accused. It's unfathomable in our western society and may be described as sexual abuse but this has been common practice over there. I once posted information on female genital mutilation practiced in Egypt. It's still ongoing and a common practice culturally with a much higher percentage than people are willing to believe or admit goes on there though it's not actually something that is to be done for religious purposes. It's more a cultural thing.

I'm not saying you'll be subjected to any of this. However, I do get the concern that others express about one of us going over there because they have legitimate reasons to be concerned about the situation. I can also see how they would have an irrational fear of the unknown if they've never been through or experienced a predominantly Islamic society before. If it's your first time traveling there, I don't care what anybody says nor how much one prepares themselves, it's going to be culture shocking. The State department advises us on the U.S. Embassy in Cairo's website stay out of protests, if you hear of protests that are going to happen get far away. Be aware of your surroundings. The region is in a period of unrest particularly in Egypt right now with everything going on politically and if they're politically passionate bunch be prepared for some irrational behavior targeted towards you at a moments notice. Many of us have traveled there and back safely and have our SO's as guides. Your professor may just be trying to heighten your awareness and is coming from a genuine place of concern for your well being as I am. Go, have fun, stay safe, but be also be cautious and aware. If your instincts are going off about a situation you're uncomfortable with listen to it and act on it. Either verbalize your discomfort and uncertainty or do something to help yourself and to put yourself out of harms way. Sending you my best wishes for a safe venture and happy marriage.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Dr. A ♥ O

[RFQ 110]

truth!

While I was voting in 2008, a lady saw my tattoo in Arabic and tried to have me thrown out for being "unAmerican" Let people think whatever they want and thank God that you are open minded enough to look past it. People are lame.

No joke? I guess it shouldn't surprise me because the voter registration lady personally asked each person in the room if they were registered to vote but me.

[RFQ 110]

FWIW we're taught in academics that Egypt is part of the Middle East because of it's strategic location in that it acts as a land bridge between the Middle East and North Africa. It's also commonly referred to as "the Jewel of the Middle East" because of it. It also holds the largest Arab population in the region and the largest Arab Muslim population in the world and it's a major power in the Middle East and Muslim world. These facts can be looked up in a simple Google search online and found in websites such as Wiki and the CIA world fact book. It's also considered part of North Africa so I suppose you are correct in that regards as well.

I get that you perceive your professor as ignorant of the region because you see him as saying the entire region is bad and you know better than that. I got a lot of that too from my friends and family during my nine month engagement period before going to Egypt to get married. They told me I could get kidnapped and have my head chopped off because I'm American. You know the scary things we see on television news happening in the wars that were in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the other hand I had my fiance telling me how safe it was and no one would harm me but after years of experience with the region I'm wiser. Sexual harassment of women is rampant and a real problem in Egypt. If you don't speak the language you'll be ignorant to the cat calls of the teenage boys and young men. It doesn't matter if you're covered from head to toe and the most modest pious Muslim woman the harassment targets all kinds of women there. Women journalists and even their own Egyptian women have been targeted by mobs and their own security forces for sexual attacks. You may have heard of some high profile journalists who were attacked in a mob, had their clothes ripped to shreds, and their bodies raped by fingers and hands and who knows what else coming from inside the crowd for a half hour to an hour. This has happened more than one time to more than one foreign female journalists and students who just wanted to cover or experience what is happening right now. The Egyptian women themselves have come out and spoke out against the security forces capturing them and submitting them to gross and humiliating examinations of their virtue by having military doctors and sometimes the officers themselves sticking their fingers inside them checking for a hymen while multiple soldiers stand around the accused. It's unfathomable in our western society and may be described as sexual abuse but this has been common practice over there. I once posted information on female genital mutilation practiced in Egypt. It's still ongoing and a common practice culturally with a much higher percentage than people are willing to believe or admit goes on there though it's not actually something that is to be done for religious purposes. It's more a cultural thing.

I'm not saying you'll be subjected to any of this. However, I do get the concern that others express about one of us going over there because they have legitimate reasons to be concerned about the situation. I can also see how they would have an irrational fear of the unknown if they've never been through or experienced a predominantly Islamic society before. If it's your first time traveling there, I don't care what anybody says nor how much one prepares themselves, it's going to be culture shocking. The State department advises us on the U.S. Embassy in Cairo's website stay out of protests, if you hear of protests that are going to happen get far away. Be aware of your surroundings. The region is in a period of unrest particularly in Egypt right now with everything going on politically and if they're politically passionate bunch be prepared for some irrational behavior targeted towards you at a moments notice. Many of us have traveled there and back safely and have our SO's as guides. Your professor may just be trying to heighten your awareness and is coming from a genuine place of concern for your well being as I am. Go, have fun, stay safe, but be also be cautious and aware. If your instincts are going off about a situation you're uncomfortable with listen to it and act on it. Either verbalize your discomfort and uncertainty or do something to help yourself and to put yourself out of harms way. Sending you my best wishes for a safe venture and happy marriage.

Indeed, and thank you for the warm wishes. I try to be cautious just walking to my car in a parking lot here. Its never a good idea to be cocky!

[abbi627 43]

I was told I would never make it out of the airport alive (Morocco) - that I would be knocked in the head, robbed and murdered. And so many people told me I would never make it back to the USA alive - yet here I am LOL. And like you - I am on my countdown to going back!

[why not1 5]

The thing is, the control is not in control. No laws are not being enforced at all. Even the Military and Police fight each other. Your an American woman.. that can be a target. Some women can not even ride the micro buses without be fondled. It is really a big issue, and with the lawlessness now. I hate to say it but you could be kidnapped. This time around the ppl are at war with each other. They are not just throwing a president out, they are fighting everything. They are clashing in more cities then just Alexandria and Cairo, the small villages are effected and even the tourist cities. Any city that has government buildings is effected by this. What we get in the media here is not nothing compared to what is going on in Egypt at the moment. And if he fears for your safety you need to respect that he loves you enough to not have to risk something happening to you. Even my husband fears for his safety and his families. Because fights and clashes happen anywhere not just Tahrir Square. Just wait this out... when schools close and jobs close there doors it is very serious. Also many of the tourist places close to if it continues. What you going to do sit in the flat all day. I did that back in March of 2011. Even when the revolution was over the lawlessness was bad and would hear gun fire all over the city. There was many times we would be on bus into Cairo and just get off, because he got a call of fights and gun fire. And the new thing this time, people have bought guns since the last revolution as a way to protect them selves and from military and police. That makes it 100 x's more dangerous. Please value your safety. I have many friends that are American that live in Egypt and for the 1st time they are thinking of leaving.

[Ihavequestions 419]

The thing is, the control is not in control. No laws are not being enforced at all. Even the Military and Police fight each other. Your an American woman.. that can be a target. Some women can not even ride the micro buses without be fondled. It is really a big issue, and with the lawlessness now. I hate to say it but you could be kidnapped. This time around the ppl are at war with each other. They are not just throwing a president out, they are fighting everything. They are clashing in more cities then just Alexandria and Cairo, the small villages are effected and even the tourist cities. Any city that has government buildings is effected by this. What we get in the media here is not nothing compared to what is going on in Egypt at the moment. And if he fears for your safety you need to respect that he loves you enough to not have to risk something happening to you. Even my husband fears for his safety and his families. Because fights and clashes happen anywhere not just Tahrir Square. Just wait this out... when schools close and jobs close there doors it is very serious. Also many of the tourist places close to if it continues. What you going to do sit in the flat all day. I did that back in March of 2011. Even when the revolution was over the lawlessness was bad and would hear gun fire all over the city. There was many times we would be on bus into Cairo and just get off, because he got a call of fights and gun fire. And the new thing this time, people have bought guns since the last revolution as a way to protect them selves and from military and police. That makes it 100 x's more dangerous. Please value your safety. I have many friends that are American that live in Egypt and for the 1st time they are thinking of leaving.

EXACTLY. Make no mistake, this place is lawless.

[zahrasalem 114]

I worked and lived in Dubai for a year and you wouldn't believe how many people (including some people in my family) think Dubai is a dangerous, violent place just because it's in the middle east. I would try so much to explain that Dubai is very westernized, has lots of Americans and Europeans living and working there and it was the opposite of what they imagined.

It's true that people who have no experience or have traveled to certain parts of the world have a very narrow minded view and sometimes nothing can change their minds. It's so frustrating when it's your own family.

In Dubai, I had 1 friend who was already there when I went. He helped me find a job at an American law firm, an apartment and a car, and soon I was totally independent as if I was living right here at home. I never felt scared or intimidated and I loved living there. It was definitely one of the best experiences of my life. But people in my own family refuse to believe anything I say about it.....oh well, their loss.

I'm sure you'll be fine in Egypt, have a great time!!

[sandinista! 1,816]

So cause Dubai is so peachy, it's all good in Egypt? Right on.

[zahrasalem 114]

So cause Dubai is so peachy, it's all good in Egypt? Right on.

No, I didn't say that at all. I was just sharing my experience of people's negatiave perceptions of MENA countries. I have been to Egypt several times with my husband, although not since the revolution. I was giving the OP encouragement that her trip should be just fine. Geesh!