Does not look good

[Fandango 1,439]

Dan you generalize wayyyyy too much

men this, women that, Americanized this...blah blah blah

Just cos you heard more than one woman say 'yadda yadda' doesn't mean we all say it....nor does it make you an 'expert' in any way shape or form.

[PurrSuede 0]

Dan you generalize wayyyyy too much

men this, women that, Americanized this...blah blah blah

Just cos you heard more than one woman say 'yadda yadda' doesn't mean we all say it....nor does it make you an 'expert' in any way shape or form.

Careful straddling that fence, Lisa.... one wrong move and it might hurt... heh

No it doesn't mean you all (meaning all women) say such a thing... but you know there's a "once bitten twice shy" cliche as well...

Are cliches alright to use, or is that still way too general for you??

I don't claim to be an expert, do you??

-- Dan

[rebeccajo 14]

Not saying this was your scenario, RebeccaJo, but what I am saying is that maybe there's a reason that men sometimes feel the need to protect themselves financially IF the marriage goes sour... like our past experiences with a bitter ex-wife???

-- Dan

Oh I didn't think you were referring to me. And as far as I can see your point is well taken.

It's just since I've been in this thread and reflected on some things - well I can see there's many dimensions to this issue beyond the surface ones.

Having said that, I'd have to say that my earlier use of the word 'naive' - while it may have a negative connotation - is very appropriate. Maybe there's a better word that could be used, I don't know.

We'd all like to believe that nobody would hurt us or our children, but it happens. It's naive - in my opinion - to feel certain that it couldn't possibly happen. It's not wrong obviously to feel this way and to have those type of convictions about your relationship. It's just - well - naive. Heavens, there has GOT to be a better word! LOL

Look - anything can change and anything can happen. There's no such thing as certainty, especially with relationships. I guess that's why life is the amazing journey that it is, and we have to take disappointments along with joy. Just don't kid yourself into thinking it won't, couldn't, nope, never happen to you. Cause it just might. Cause that's life.

Edited October 24, 2006 by rebeccajo

[diadromous mermaid 36]

It would probably be useful to at least discuss the pre-nup and how it may or may not relate to the Aff of Support? Because this is an immigration forum and both documents could potentially "run into" each other.

--Z

The Affidavit of Support is a contract between the sponsor and the government, not between the sponsor and his/her spouse. How would a prenup "run into" it?

Edited October 24, 2006 by diadromous mermaid

[PurrSuede 0]

Look - anything can change and anything can happen. There's no such thing as certainty, especially with relationships. I guess that's why life is the amazing journey that it is, and we have to take disappointments along with joy. Just don't kid yourself into thinking it won't, couldn't, nope, never happen to you. Cause it just might. Cause that's life.

If LisaD will approve of my generality...

As a certain someone once said:

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans...

-- (John Lennon)

[Fandango 1,439]

Dan you generalize wayyyyy too much

men this, women that, Americanized this...blah blah blah

Just cos you heard more than one woman say 'yadda yadda' doesn't mean we all say it....nor does it make you an 'expert' in any way shape or form.

Careful straddling that fence, Lisa.... one wrong move and it might hurt... heh

No it doesn't mean you all (meaning all women) say such a thing... but you know there's a "once bitten twice shy" cliche as well...

Are cliches alright to use, or is that still way too general for you??

I don't claim to be an expert, do you??

-- Dan

You come across as if you're talking in absolutes....and you have no idea how much it grates on me how you classify your ex-wife's selfish and conniving actions as 'becoming Americanized'

I'm straddling the fence on this subject cos I can truly see both sides. Each person here makes a very valid point!

[jamrok 0]

My finacee and her 11 year old daughter and I arrived here in the U.S. last August 2nd.

The daughter enrolled in school and is doing OK.

I have a on-going 24 year -old business that I have been very successful at. I also own several income-producing real estate properties.

About a month ago, on the advice of my attorney and CPA, I discussed with my finacee about preparing a pre-nupt agreement.

She really suprised me---she became very offfended that I would suggest such a thing. I attempted to explain to her that it would be in BOTH of our interests. She is a university graduate and skilled in the business world, so maybe I mis-calculated her desires, character, or whatever.

Now, I am having very serious doubts about the marriage. Her time in the U.S. is runnning out.

You might be ready to tell me--"why didn't you two talk about this a long time ago?" Well, to me, it makes a heck of a lot of sense to have a prenupt in this day and age in America--especially when both parties have financial interestes (she owns two apartments in her home country) and 1 out of 2 marriages end in divorce within three years in this country.

I tried to explain the benefits of the agreement not only for me, but for HER, also. She told me she would absolutely not read it, but would sign it, and she was very upset about the whole thing.

Her reaction seems so childish to me. Do I want to marry this woman?

Has anyone else been in this situation? Thanks.

I have to say, this just plain irritates me! You spring on her a prenup (apparently never spoke of it before in the relationship) and you expect her to just be all happy and agree with you? What is that? Have you forgotten how SHE feels in this?? And, it just ticks me off whenever there's a problem like this and a disagreement of some sort, the automatic thought is "do I really want to marry this man/woman?" WHERE IS THE LOVE?? DID IT JUST FLY OUT THE WINDOW WHEN THE DISAGREEMENT/ARGUEMENT HAPPENED??? Come on! If you want my opinion, if you can question yourself about what you feel for this person because of a disagreement/arguement, then there was never the love there in the first place! Think about that and think about the reason why you wanted to be with this person in the first place and then ask yourself the question that you are asking the readers here.

As I have always said; your toughts or opinions do not have to be the most popular What is important is that

you go with your gut. Personally, I would NEVER marry again without a pre-nup especially if you have assets.

If you have assets DO A PRE-NUP....if you dont then it's your own fault. Follow your gut....you will find that

it will always lead you in the right direction. Your opinions do not have to be popular.

[dmartmar 1]

About a month ago, on the advice of my attorney and CPA, I discussed with my fiancee about preparing a pre-nupt agreement.

What if your CPA and Atty. had NOT given you such advice?

[PurrSuede 0]

You come across as if you're talking in absolutes....and you have no idea how much it grates on me how you classify your ex-wife's selfish and conniving actions as 'becoming Americanized'

Lisa, seriously... You have no idea how much it grated on ME.... LOL

But seriously, I should say that as she became American-ized, meaning "AS SHE INTEGRATED INTO AMERICAN" culture and society, the many choices she made revealed herself to be self-focused, selfish and self-centered.

maybe that makes the intent here more clear to you?

It's not that ~becoming~ American in actions caused this.

It's that once she had the freedom innate in our society to go where she wanted, buy what she wanted, do what she pleased, it revealed that her main interests were in doing such, her own selfish interests, as opposed to her previously stated interests of building a relationship, marriage, home and family.

Is that less grating for you perhaps??

I never meant to imply this was immediate cause and effect other than it was HER choice to make for these actions and ~perhaps~ the process of integrating into our culture, with all of its associated freedom and capitalistic and materialistic lures were too much for her to deal with. Or perhaps this was where her interests lay all along.

Perhaps that makes more sense in terms of the topic of this forum "Your New Life in America"

-- Dan

[lisa71 0]

What if your CPA and Atty. had NOT given you such advice?

I wondered this too. I also wondered if there may have been another option. My (now) husband and I discussed a pre-nup BEFORE I moved over with my two children. We didn't end up with one as a) he owned the house/property/assets BEFORE our marriage, and B) he already had all his assets set up in a trust that I cannot touch if we divorce.

So, despite the fact that I couldn't and wouldn't ever take any of his assets in the (sad) event of divorce, he was protected without a pre-nup. I had very few assets and didn't really have anything to protect. But, again, any assets I do have were acquired BEFORE our marriage. Additionally, I trust that if we were to ever divorce, he would never take anything away from my children - no matter how he may feel about me.

We live in CA and my very basic understanding of the divorce laws here are that if we were to divorce, we'd each walk away with our individual assets and 50% of what we acquired when together.

I wonder if the OP had looked into the kind of trust my husband had set up if the marriage may still be on?

[mawilson 2,133]

You come across as if you're talking in absolutes....and you have no idea how much it grates on me how you classify your ex-wife's selfish and conniving actions as 'becoming Americanized'

The truth hurts, eh?

[zauberblume 0]

It would probably be useful to at least discuss the pre-nup and how it may or may not relate to the Aff of Support? Because this is an immigration forum and both documents could potentially "run into" each other.

--Z

The Affidavit of Support is a contract between the sponsor and the government, not between the sponsor and his/her spouse. How would a prenup "run into" it?

Start with these links:

http://www.povertylaw.org/poverty-law-libr...ase/54000/54046

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0608-mehta.shtm

[diadromous mermaid 36]

It would probably be useful to at least discuss the pre-nup and how it may or may not relate to the Aff of Support? Because this is an immigration forum and both documents could potentially "run into" each other.

--Z

The Affidavit of Support is a contract between the sponsor and the government, not between the sponsor and his/her spouse. How would a prenup "run into" it?

Start with these links:

http://www.povertylaw.org/poverty-law-libr...ase/54000/54046

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0608-mehta.shtm

zauberblume,

I'm well aware of the terms of the Affidavit, and also of the recent civil cases, where a handful of alien ex-spouses have sued to collect the difference between the mandated 125% poverty-level income and their earnings, in lieu of alimony. However, I'm puzzled as to how this "runs into" to a prenup. Simply put, the prenup protects assets held separately prior to marriage by either party to the marriage. Alimony, is determined by the state, and therefore, whether an alien was entitled to alimony or not, the prenup would in no way obviate. Remember, a prenup, no matter how it is constructed cannot strip a party of that which is mandated by state law. Further, in this and other successful cases, the Federal Courts had insufficent evidence to averr that the alien entered the marriage with fraudulent intent. Had there been sufficient evidence to support that, I doubt that the alien would have acquired the monetary damages.

However, given that the I-864 carries with it a potential liability to a US citizen spouse, in terms of the ability of an alien to initiate a separate civil suit to recover the 125% PG ~ and incidentally, the Affidavit of Support does not have a disclaimer that protects the sponsor in the event that the alien be the one to either initiate or cause the divorce, which, when taken to the civil level seems particularly unfair, in my estimation. There could quite conceivably be occasions when an alien abuses the marriage institution, initiates divorce action, with an eye to making sure he or she gains the support through the Affidavit, and no matter how fervent the US citizen be to try to reconcile or salvage the marriage, or escape the requirement of the irevoccable Affidavit of Support, he or she'd be unsuccessful unless one can prove fraud. It seems particularly punitive to the US ctizen, in such circumstances.

With this in mind, it would suggest that a prenup be all the more important, and especially, perhaps, in the case of a US citizen, to protect a party from the potential of any future and/or frivolous lawsuits.

[SirLancelot 1]

What if your CPA and Atty. had NOT given you such advice?

I wondered this too. I also wondered if there may have been another option. My (now) husband and I discussed a pre-nup BEFORE I moved over with my two children. We didn't end up with one as a) he owned the house/property/assets BEFORE our marriage, and B) he already had all his assets set up in a trust that I cannot touch if we divorce.

So, despite the fact that I couldn't and wouldn't ever take any of his assets in the (sad) event of divorce, he was protected without a pre-nup. I had very few assets and didn't really have anything to protect. But, again, any assets I do have were acquired BEFORE our marriage. Additionally, I trust that if we were to ever divorce, he would never take anything away from my children - no matter how he may feel about me.

We live in CA and my very basic understanding of the divorce laws here are that if we were to divorce, we'd each walk away with our individual assets and 50% of what we acquired when together.

You can't shelter your assets in the event of a divorce just because it's in a trust. The court has the authortity to force a liquidation of the assets in the trust and allocate the proceeds.

I think there is a point that should be made here which many of you may not even realize. When it comes to divorce time, it does NOT really matter in which state you currently reside with your spouse. When one party wants a divorce, they can easily move to any other state and establish residence in that new state and file for dissolution of marriage in that new state. So even if you think your state is great at protecting your interests, your spouse can easily move to another state and file for divorce in that other state.

Who files first is where the divorce will take place, so your own state laws don't really protect you.

[SirLancelot 1]

With this in mind, it would suggest that a prenup be all the more important, and especially, perhaps, in the case of a US citizen, to protect a party from the potential of any future and/or frivolous lawsuits.

Memaid, this is an interesting idea.

Hear me out and see what you think.

There is a requirement for the I-864 when the AoS takes place. It is the duty of the petitioner to file an I-864 for the beneficiary. This is legally required by the US government. It places the financial responsiblities on the petitioner.

Now, here's my question. Does the I-864 preclude the petitioner from engaging with the beneficiary in a private contract which would require the beneficiary to pay back any and all expenses to the petitioner which may be assessed by the US government in the event of a divorce?

I understand the I-864 is a contractual agreement between the US government and the petitioner. But does the I-864 contract specifically preclude the petitioner from entering in another contract with his or her beneficiary to specifically require the beneficiary to pay back any and all charges demanded by the US government upon the petitioner?

Will this hold up in civil court?