renouncing U.S citizenship to become illegal ?

[Ban Hammer 12,887]

That's insane. I really am surprised to learn that so many come here intending to stay. Most of the time in my experience it's young men either too young to have a family, or leaving their wife/kids behind. Javier was in that first category.

Yep, I live in a agricultural area, and I see it all the time in the grocery store. Is very rare to see cash come from the pocket.unless beer or cigs are bought! Its usually a swipe of a card or a coupon!

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

i wonder if anyone who's been on a soapbox about healthcare costs has read this one link about Medical care to illegal aliens...

Edited October 17, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[Libersolis 0]

I think this all ties back in to what the OP was trying to get across with his original message. The percevied benefits ( and according to these studies the actual benefits ) outweigh the perceived and actual punishments in place for coming across illegally.

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

we can all post "studies" supporting one side of the argument or the other on the economic impact of illegal immigrants to this country.

we won't be able to convince the other side.

the OP's posted letter, tounge in cheeck or not, displays a sentiment of the anti-illegal side. This sentiment is baseless. sure, there is a problem. and understanable ppl are mad/upset/angry. but don't let those emotions let you come to conclusins like the ones expressed in that letter.

Daniel

:energetic:

[Ban Hammer 12,887]

we can all post "studies" supporting one side of the argument or the other on the economic impact of illegal immigrants to this country.

we won't be able to convince the other side.

the OP's posted letter, tounge in cheeck or not, displays a sentiment of the anti-illegal side. This sentiment is baseless. sure, there is a problem. and understanable ppl are mad/upset/angry. but don't let those emotions let you come to conclusins like the ones expressed in that letter.

Daniel

:energetic:

daniel, i know which side of the argument you sit on. however, next time you get a medical bill, or can't get a pay raise, or even a job - remember this topic

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

we can all post "studies" supporting one side of the argument or the other on the economic impact of illegal immigrants to this country.

we won't be able to convince the other side.

the OP's posted letter, tounge in cheeck or not, displays a sentiment of the anti-illegal side. This sentiment is baseless. sure, there is a problem. and understanable ppl are mad/upset/angry. but don't let those emotions let you come to conclusins like the ones expressed in that letter.

Daniel

:energetic:

daniel, i know which side of the argument you sit on. however, next time you get a medical bill, or can't get a pay raise, or even a job - remember this topic

charles, i know where you side too. the next time you buy food at reasonable prices, remember as to why it is priced that way.

as to the medical costs, pay raises/etc... beleieve me, these issues have a lot bigger causes than illegal immigrants.

Daniel

:energetic:

[Traviesa 0]

we can all post "studies" supporting one side of the argument or the other on the economic impact of illegal immigrants to this country.

we won't be able to convince the other side.

the OP's posted letter, tounge in cheeck or not, displays a sentiment of the anti-illegal side. This sentiment is baseless. sure, there is a problem. and understanable ppl are mad/upset/angry. but don't let those emotions let you come to conclusins like the ones expressed in that letter.

Daniel

:energetic:

daniel, i know which side of the argument you sit on. however, next time you get a medical bill, or can't get a pay raise, or even a job - remember this topic

I know this wasn't directed at me, however I just want to say that I have almost never gotten a medical bill. The one recent time was an error and was dropped. I have reall good insurance through my job, which I do not live in fear of losing. I also would have no problems whatsoever finding another one, would that be in my field, at McD's, or anywhere else.

[Mirorgate 0]

we can all post "studies" supporting one side of the argument or the other on the economic impact of illegal immigrants to this country.

we won't be able to convince the other side.

the OP's posted letter, tounge in cheeck or not, displays a sentiment of the anti-illegal side. This sentiment is baseless. sure, there is a problem. and understanable ppl are mad/upset/angry. but don't let those emotions let you come to conclusins like the ones expressed in that letter.

Daniel

:energetic:

hahahhaaaaa.. illegal in ones own country

not one person here is going to give over.. trust in that

besides, if I wanted other citizenship.. I'd apply for Irish (thru grandfather immigrating), English (grandmother) or Ecuadorian (wife).

while it is true illegal immigration is a known problem... the suggested/proposed solutions coming outa DC are stupid. not shortsighted, uneducated or whatever they call eachothers plans... they are all stupid. building a wall will not help. imposing stricter immigration laws will not help. granting citizenship to ppl who already commited a federal crime sends wrong message.

nailing the employers heavily with fines will start to bring the process back to equal balance. granting more unskilled labor work visas will also help. will congress listen? doubtful... big business spends the $$ there to get what they want... no longer for the ppl by the ppl.... more like for the $$ buy the congress.

[Ban Hammer 12,887]

charles, i know where you side too. the next time you buy food at reasonable prices, remember as to why it is priced that way.

as to the medical costs, pay raises/etc... beleieve me, these issues have a lot bigger causes than illegal immigrants.

Daniel

:energetic:

my food is always reasonably priced, i buy at the commissary

nessa got a first hand look at that this weekend - one example i remember is a pineapple in the commissary at $2.50 each, downtown $5 each

I know this wasn't directed at me, however I just want to say that I have almost never gotten a medical bill. The one recent time was an error and was dropped. I have reall good insurance through my job, which I do not live in fear of losing. I also would have no problems whatsoever finding another one, would that be in my field, at McD's, or anywhere else.

but when you do get that medical bill, you'll know why it's so high. you're paying the cost of those illegals....

also keep in mind that vehicle insurance is high too - remember that uninsured driver's part of it?

[pedroh 21]

I don't think an illegal will ever affect a pay raise in the field i work in.. If i worked as a contractor, construction worker, farm labor.. yes.. but.. I do not.. lawl..

so in schools.. no school lunches for 'anchor kids'? I thought those lunches were for all hte kids @ school, not only the kids from illegal aliens, which by constitutional right they are born US citizens, and therefore I think they have a right to school free lunches

[Traviesa 0]

we can all post "studies" supporting one side of the argument or the other on the economic impact of illegal immigrants to this country.

we won't be able to convince the other side.

the OP's posted letter, tounge in cheeck or not, displays a sentiment of the anti-illegal side. This sentiment is baseless. sure, there is a problem. and understanable ppl are mad/upset/angry. but don't let those emotions let you come to conclusins like the ones expressed in that letter.

Daniel

:energetic:

hahahhaaaaa.. illegal in ones own country

not one person here is going to give over.. trust in that

besides, if I wanted other citizenship.. I'd apply for Irish (thru grandfather immigrating), English (grandmother) or Ecuadorian (wife).

while it is true illegal immigration is a known problem... the suggested/proposed solutions coming outa DC are stupid. not shortsighted, uneducated or whatever they call eachothers plans... they are all stupid. building a wall will not help. imposing stricter immigration laws will not help. granting citizenship to ppl who already commited a federal crime sends wrong message.

nailing the employers heavily with fines will start to bring the process back to equal balance. granting more unskilled labor work visas will also help. will congress listen? doubtful... big business spends the $$ there to get what they want... no longer for the ppl by the ppl.... more like for the $$ buy the congress.

If we want to talk solutions to a problem, I think nobody so far has really touched on the best solution. Of course it's not a popular one, but like every good solution to a problem, it addresses the cause. It's not a bandaid type of thing but a fixing type of thing, and that is, make Mexicans want to stay in Mexico. Why would you risk your life crossing over the desert for a job? One of the main reasons could be you can't find one at home, or that the job you had at home does not pay enough to sustain your life and the life of your family. I know, for an example, that Javier works about 12 hours a day on the farm, 7 days a week, and is paid 800 pesos a week, which roughly converts to $80. That's like $10 a day. And he's really not all that bad off. The key is to educate Mexicans-stop with this ending school in the 7th grade, and get them to stay in Mexico, with jobs available that pay a livable wage. To those who might say it's not our problem to fix, I would say it most certainly is our problem to fix: 1-because we don't want them here; and 2-because we are and have always been in the habit of "helping" other countries out, even the ones that don't necessarily want or need our help.

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

but when you do get that medical bill, you'll know why it's so high. you're paying the cost of those illegals....

also keep in mind that vehicle insurance is high too - remember that uninsured driver's part of it?

charles,

is it your premise that the high cost of these bills and insurance are either totally or for themost part the fault of uninsured illegal aliens?

Daniel

:energetic:

[Libersolis 0]

I don't think an illegal will ever affect a pay raise in the field i work in.. If i worked as a contractor, construction worker, farm labor.. yes.. but.. I do not.. lawl..

so in schools.. no school lunches for 'anchor kids'? I thought those lunches were for all hte kids @ school, not only the kids from illegal aliens, which by constitutional right they are born US citizens, and therefore I think they have a right to school free lunches

You are assuming that these children weren't brought over during the initial border crossing.

we can all post "studies" supporting one side of the argument or the other on the economic impact of illegal immigrants to this country.

we won't be able to convince the other side.

the OP's posted letter, tounge in cheeck or not, displays a sentiment of the anti-illegal side. This sentiment is baseless. sure, there is a problem. and understanable ppl are mad/upset/angry. but don't let those emotions let you come to conclusins like the ones expressed in that letter.

Daniel

:energetic:

hahahhaaaaa.. illegal in ones own country

not one person here is going to give over.. trust in that

besides, if I wanted other citizenship.. I'd apply for Irish (thru grandfather immigrating), English (grandmother) or Ecuadorian (wife).

while it is true illegal immigration is a known problem... the suggested/proposed solutions coming outa DC are stupid. not shortsighted, uneducated or whatever they call eachothers plans... they are all stupid. building a wall will not help. imposing stricter immigration laws will not help. granting citizenship to ppl who already commited a federal crime sends wrong message.

nailing the employers heavily with fines will start to bring the process back to equal balance. granting more unskilled labor work visas will also help. will congress listen? doubtful... big business spends the $$ there to get what they want... no longer for the ppl by the ppl.... more like for the $$ buy the congress.

If we want to talk solutions to a problem, I think nobody so far has really touched on the best solution. Of course it's not a popular one, but like every good solution to a problem, it addresses the cause. It's not a bandaid type of thing but a fixing type of thing, and that is, make Mexicans want to stay in Mexico. Why would you risk your life crossing over the desert for a job? One of the main reasons could be you can't find one at home, or that the job you had at home does not pay enough to sustain your life and the life of your family. I know, for an example, that Javier works about 12 hours a day on the farm, 7 days a week, and is paid 800 pesos a week, which roughly converts to $80. That's like $10 a day. And he's really not all that bad off. The key is to educate Mexicans-stop with this ending school in the 7th grade, and get them to stay in Mexico, with jobs available that pay a livable wage. To those who might say it's not our problem to fix, I would say it most certainly is our problem to fix: 1-because we don't want them here; and 2-because we are and have always been in the habit of "helping" other countries out, even the ones that don't necessarily want or need our help.

I have thought of that as well. It makes sense, but you are going to have to try and change an entire culture and way of life in order to improve conditions to that point.

[Ban Hammer 12,887]

but when you do get that medical bill, you'll know why it's so high. you're paying the cost of those illegals....

also keep in mind that vehicle insurance is high too - remember that uninsured driver's part of it?

charles,

is it your premise that the high cost of these bills and insurance are either totally or for themost part the fault of uninsured illegal aliens?

Daniel

:energetic:

i'm saying it is related to that, yes. obviously, someone who is illegally here won't be too interested in following the law about mandatory insurance on their vehicle, will they? (and yes, some states allow illegals to own and drive vehicles)

[Traviesa 0]

charles, i know where you side too. the next time you buy food at reasonable prices, remember as to why it is priced that way.

as to the medical costs, pay raises/etc... beleieve me, these issues have a lot bigger causes than illegal immigrants.

Daniel

:energetic:

my food is always reasonably priced, i buy at the commissary

nessa got a first hand look at that this weekend - one example i remember is a pineapple in the commissary at $2.50 each, downtown $5 each

I know this wasn't directed at me, however I just want to say that I have almost never gotten a medical bill. The one recent time was an error and was dropped. I have reall good insurance through my job, which I do not live in fear of losing. I also would have no problems whatsoever finding another one, would that be in my field, at McD's, or anywhere else.

but when you do get that medical bill, you'll know why it's so high. you're paying the cost of those illegals....

also keep in mind that vehicle insurance is high too - remember that uninsured driver's part of it?

Uninsured drivers come in ALL walks of life, as do "system" cheaters. In my last job, my coworker spent many hours trying to figure out how to cheat the WIC system. She was as American as me. In fact, when I think of those two groupings of people, the first thing that comes to my mind is NOT illegal aliens.

[pedroh 21]

so no free lunches for illegal kidz?

ZOMG!

anyway.. pce out.. good debate.. have to go to worxx