Fight in Ukraine's parliament over language bill

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://news.yahoo.com/fight-ukraines-parliament-over-language-bill-190554732.html

Associated Press – 36 mins ago

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — A violent scuffle erupted in Ukraine's parliament Thursday evening over a bill that would allow the use of the Russian language in courts, hospitals and other institutions in the Russian-speaking regions of the country.

The fight broke out between members of the pro-Western opposition who want to take Ukraine out of Russia's shadow and lawmakers from President Viktor Yanukovych's party, which bases its support in Ukraine's Russian-speaking east.

At least one legislator, opposition lawmaker Mykola Petruk, suffered an apparent blow to the head and was taken to the hospital with blood streaming down his face.

Lawmakers have frequently scuffled in the Ukrainian parliament. A fierce fight in December 2010, which sent at least six lawmakers to the hospital, started when members of Yanukovych's party threw chairs and punched opposition lawmakers who had been blocking legislative work all day.

During a fight in April 2010, the parliament speaker hid behind an umbrella as opposition lawmakers threw eggs and smoke bombs to protest a naval pact with Russia.

Ukraine is deeply divided into the Russian-speaking east and south, which favors close ties with Moscow, and the Ukrainian-speaking west, which wants Ukraine to join the Western club.

The opposition demanded an investigation into Thursday's scuffle.

[eekee 182]

Honestly I think Ukrainian's Ukrainian-only policies are truly dicktacular.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Honestly I think Ukrainian's Ukrainian-only policies are truly dicktacular.

I don't understand why a country would allow another countries language in their government including their court system. I don't think the US has Spanish speaking courts as of yet. Why would Ukraine allow Russian speaking courts?

There is a legal border that separates Ukraine and Russia. That and I don't know of any Ukrainian speaking courts in Russia.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Why_Me

[eekee 182]

I don't understand why a country would allow another countries language in their government including their court system. I don't think the US has Spanish speaking courts as of yet. Why would Ukraine allow Russian speaking courts?

There is a legal border that separates Ukraine and Russia. That and I don't know of any Ukrainian speaking courts in Russia.

If all of the US West of the Mississippi spoke Spanish as a first language by an overwhelming majority and had historically done so and not because of immigration, outside of us getting Mexican territory back in the day and so on, I would think that our country's language policies (which, by the way, are officially non-existent) would have developed very differently. People in the East have historically NOT spoken Ukrainian and I think it's terrible to put a large portion of an entire country at a distinct disadvantage. The Ukrainian and Russian cultures are inextricably historically-linked as well; it was called Kievan Rus', after all. It is harder to make a case for Russification and chauvinism in the east of Ukraine than it would be for, say, Belarus, where very few people speak Belarusian anymore. It's clearly very much for political reasons rather than practical ones, to supress any vestige of Russianness, and unfortunately, it's the citizens who suffer.

Also, the US has court interpreters, etc. for many languages (including Russian and Ukrainian). Think of how many spouses on this board got manuals from the DMV in their native language.

Edited May 24, 2012 by eekee

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

If all of the US West of the Mississippi spoke Spanish as a first language by an overwhelming and had historically done so and not because of immigration, outside of us getting Mexican territory back in the day and so on, I would think that our country's language policies (which, by the way, are officially non-existent) would have developed very differently. People in the East have historically NOT spoken Ukrainian and I think it's terrible to put a large portion of an entire country at a distinct disadvantage. The Ukrainian and Russian cultures are inextricably historically-linked as well; it was called Kievan Rus', after all. It is harder to make a case for Russification and chauvinism in the east of Ukraine than it would be for, say, Belarus, where very few people speak Belarusian anymore. It's clearly very much for political reasons rather than practical ones, to supress any vestige of Russianness, and unfortunately, it's the citizens who suffer.

Also, the US has court interpreters, etc. for many languages (including Russian and Ukrainian). Think of how many spouses on this board got manuals from the DMV in their native language.

I thought I read somewhere that Ukraine offers something similar to ESL classes in order to integrate it's Russian speaking citizens over to Ukrainian.

I think it would be nice of Russia if it started allowing Ukrainian in their courts and schools. I mean what's good for one should be good for the other. Seriously though Ukraine has been screwed by Russia and Poland for so many centuries that's it's time for them to get their language and culture back. Russification of Ukraine and Belarus needs to be rolled back imo and the more ground that Ukraine puts between itself and the corrupt dictatorship in the Kremlin the better. The Kremlin cancer as I call it needs to be cut out of Ukraine but I don't see that happening anytime soon with the election of that criminal Kremlin suck up Ukraine has for a president atm.

Russia has never known democracy in it's entire history and most likely won't anytime soon. 300+ years of Mongol rule really screwed that country up.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Why_Me

[eekee 182]

I thought I read somewhere that Ukraine offers something similar to ESL classes in order to integrate it's Russian speaking citizens over to Ukrainian.

I think it would be nice of Russia if it started allowing Ukrainian in their courts and schools. I mean what's good for one should be good for the other. Seriously though Ukraine has been screwed by Russia and Poland for so many centuries that's it's time for them to get their language and culture back. Russification of Ukraine and Belarus needs to be rolled back imo and the more ground that Ukraine puts between itself and the corrupt dictatorship in the Kremlin the better. The Kremlin cancer as I call it needs to be cut out of Ukraine but I don't see that happening anytime soon with the election of that criminal Kremlin suck up Ukraine has for a president atm.

Russia has never known democracy in it's entire history and most likely won't anytime soon. 300+ years of Mongol rule really screwed that country up.

The Ukrainian population isn't high enough or concentrated enough to support such a project and in certain areas of Russia (Komi, Tatarstan, Kalmykia, et al.) that are considered Autonomous Republics, there are two official languages and all street names and so on are in two languages. It's not an issue of reciprocity. There isn't a part of Russia that is, at the moment, predominantly Ukrainian-speaking. I, personally, would not want to wake up in Kharkov to find that now I'm in Kharkiv and I need to learn a new language that no one else around me speaks either to function on an official level because my government decided that it should be so one day. I can see it backfiring against the Ukrainian government, personally. From what I've read here about the various laws and stuff in Ukraine, it's even worse than Russia when it comes to the government changing things all the time.

Edited May 24, 2012 by eekee

[1HappyGuy 45]

I don't understand why a country would allow another countries language in their government including their court system. I don't think the US has Spanish speaking courts as of yet. Why would Ukraine allow Russian speaking courts?

This is easy to understand when you have a president that can't speak his native Ukrainian language.

If all of the US West of the Mississippi spoke Spanish as a first language by an overwhelming majority and had historically done so and not because of immigration, outside of us getting Mexican territory back in the day and so on, I would think that our country's language policies (which, by the way, are officially non-existent) would have developed very differently.

The state of New Mexico has their state constitution in English and Spanish which made sense at statehood time since about 50% of the population spoke Spanish. That's the only state that I know that officially has another language other than English in their constitution.

See, watching the history channel does pay off.

[slim 1,514]

I don't think the US has Spanish speaking courts as of yet.

If you haven't been to court recently, you'll be "pleasantly surprised" to find that all cases requiring a translator get to go first (since the court is paying for the translator) and you'll have to sit through some "foreign language" courts.

Yes. That is here in America.

I know. I can't believe it either.

[eekee 182]

If you haven't been to court recently, you'll be "pleasantly surprised" to find that all cases requiring a translator get to go first (since the court is paying for the translator) and you'll have to sit through some "foreign language" courts.

Yes. That is here in America.

I know. I can't believe it either.

On the other hand, if your wife can pass a court interpreter test, she can make some good cash on the side.

[slim 1,514]

On the other hand, if your wife can pass a court interpreter test, she can make some good cash on the side.

If there are other RUBbers around.

Around here, she'd have to pass a Spanish or Arabic exam.

[eekee 182]

If there are other RUBbers around.

Around here, she'd have to pass a Spanish or Arabic exam.

It's a state exam, so she could go anywhere in Ohio.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

If there are other RUBbers around.

Around here, she'd have to pass a Spanish or Arabic exam.

They have Arabs in Ohio ?

[slim 1,514]

It's a state exam, so she could go anywhere in Ohio.

And that would be cost-effective how?

They have Arabs in Ohio ?

There are four.

The rest, and there are a bunch of them, are Arabic-speaking Africans or Central Asians.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

And that would be cost-effective how?

There are four.

The rest, and there are a bunch of them, are Arabic-speaking Africans or Central Asians.

I always pictured Ohio as a cross between farms and steel mills. Man how times have changed.

[eekee 182]

And that would be cost-effective how?

Don't know; I'm not familiar with Ohio/the Midwest at all.