Now that they already have theirs... India & Pakistan condemn North Korea for nuke test

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Here is an exerpt from the bulletin--care to explain why it does not match the claim (to be using it as reference) by Wiki?

China is estimated to have an arsenal of around 400 nuclear warheads, down from 435 in 1993. China is thought to have produced some 600 nuclear warheads since 1964, and U.S. intelligence and defense agencies predict that over the next 15 years China may increase the number of warheads on primarily U.S-targeted missiles from 20 to between 75--100.

Link to bulletin page

I have a Taiwanese colleague who doesn't believe China ever reduced (due to the number of missiles China has pointing at Taiwan)--he estimates 500.

Could it be because your except is from a 2002 article, and it's now 2006 and Wikipedia has updated its page with the latest estimate ?

My sister-in-law is from Taiwan -- she was a journalist for one of Taipei's many newspapers. She doesn't have much love for the Red Chinese government, but neither does she buy every grandiose claim about it. She says China tries to appear stronger than it really is, so that others (mainly the USA) will think twice about messing with it and throwing a monkey wrench into its designs to "reunify" Taiwan. (Of course the U.S. doesn't even recognize Taiwan as a soverign state anyway, doing everything it can to discourage Taiwan from making any change from the status quo.)

Sure Beijing wants Taiwan to be internationally recognized as an official part of the People's Republic -- they've never accepted its separation. But China really doesn't want to go to war over it (at least not with Taiwan) as they need Taiwan's economy intact. So we have a situation of saber-rattling combined with the ever-present need for face-saving.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Wow you know how many nukes Israel has ? You must be the only one outside Israel to have that kind of info, as Israel will not confirm or deny that it has ANY nuclear weapons, or even a program to develop them at all -- although everyone knows about it thanks to their whistle-blower, Mordechai Vanunu (and look what they did to him.) Israel refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty; nor does it allow international inspectors into Dimona.

Yet Israel has yet to Nuke it's extremely unfriendly neighbors. How many hours after Hamas obtained a nuke would they use it on Israel? Be honest for once.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Yet Israel has yet to Nuke it's extremely unfriendly neighbors. How many hours after Hamas obtained a nuke would they use it on Israel? Be honest for once.

What a silly post.

Why don't you go acquaint yourself with a map, and then explain to me how "Hamas" is going to be able to "nuke Israel" without nuking the West Bank and Gaza along with it. Same goes for Israel -- they can't nuke their neighbors without the risk of nuking themselves (at least until they invent one that only affects certain humans and not others.)

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Also in Wiki

Although the total number of nuclear weapons in the Chinese arsenal is unknown, as of 2005 the various estimates vary from as low as 80 to as high as 2000. In 2004, China stated "among the nuclear-weapon states, China...possesses the smallest nuclear arsenal," implying China has fewer than the United Kingdom's 200 nuclear weapons. Most sources say that China has around 400-430 nuclear warheads. Some authors argue that U.S. intelligence estimates suggest a much smaller nuclear force than many non-governmental organizations.

In other words, the estimate appears to be from China's own underplay statement--how the "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists" reduced its estimate by TWO-THIRDS within only four years doesn't say well for it.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Also in Wiki

Although the total number of nuclear weapons in the Chinese arsenal is unknown, as of 2005 the various estimates vary from as low as 80 to as high as 2000. In 2004, China stated "among the nuclear-weapon states, China...possesses the smallest nuclear arsenal," implying China has fewer than the United Kingdom's 200 nuclear weapons. Most sources say that China has around 400-430 nuclear warheads. Some authors argue that U.S. intelligence estimates suggest a much smaller nuclear force than many non-governmental organizations.

In other words, the estimate appears to be from China's own underplay statement--how the "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists" reduced its estimate by TWO-THIRDS within only four years doesn't say well for it.

(Bold mine)

"U.S. intelligence experts suggest a much smaller nuclear force...."

But why should you believe the experts ? I mean they're the same party-poopers who said Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction.

LOL "Who you gonna believe... us or your lying eyes ?!"

[doodlebug 3]

I don't think that it's been confirmed outside of North Korea that it was even a nuke that was set off yesterday.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Yet Israel has yet to Nuke it's extremely unfriendly neighbors. How many hours after Hamas obtained a nuke would they use it on Israel? Be honest for once.

What a silly post.

Why don't you go acquaint yourself with a map, and then explain to me how "Hamas" is going to be able to "nuke Israel" without nuking the West Bank and Gaza along with it. Same goes for Israel -- they can't nuke their neighbors without the risk of nuking themselves (at least until they invent one that only affects certain humans and not others.)

Suicide bombers prove you wrong all the time. Life is cheap over there. BTW, you understand that you can make a low yield weapon (tactical) that can just wipe out a city? Not all nukes are the same. Like brains, they come in different sizes.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Suicide bombers prove you wrong all the time. Life is cheap over there. BTW, you understand that you can make a low yield weapon (tactical) that can just wipe out a city? Not all nukes are the same. Like brains, they come in different sizes.

Indeed, brains come in very small sizes. And getting your information at places like Fox News, Free Republic or Little Green Footballs will certainly atrophy your deductive reasoning.

Your rhetoric about "suicide bombers" is merely that, and begs the question: what would a nuclear explosion in an Israeli city do to the West Bank and Gaza ?

Because it's not just the initial devastation from the blast itself that's the problem; it's the fallout.

As I already advised you, look at a map. Tel Aviv is less than 30 miles from Ramallah, and barely 40 miles from Gaza. Ramallah is only about 12 miles from Jerusalem.

Winds carrying fallout from even a small "tactical" weapon dropped on Tel Aviv would threaten major Palestinian population centers in both the West Bank and Gaza within hours of an explosion.

Think of it this way: could you "nuke" Dallas without threatening Fort Worth with the fallout ? Hardly. There's no way to control prevailing winds which can carry fallout for many miles from a blast.

This the same reason Israel can't use its nuclear weapons on the Palestinians, or on Damascus. Too close for comfort.

Get real. If "suitcase nukes" were so easy to use for "surgical strikes" in a limited and contained area (as easy as you seem to think,) then countries that currently have the extremely advanced nuclear technology required to build them -- the U.S., Russia, and possibly Israel, among others -- would already be using them.

Tehran may be far enough away to *consider* using nukes against Israel, but the Palestinians sure aren't. Israel's real worry about Hamas is that they'll obtain the same kind of conventional weaponry that Hezbollah has.

Now if you really care to continue debating about "Hamas" and "suitcase nukes," please start a new topic, as this thread is supposed to be about North Korea.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

...Now if you really care to continue debating about "Hamas" and "suitcase nukes," please start a new topic, as this thread is supposed to be about North Korea.

Considering it was post #7 (yours) on this thread which opened the worm-cans of Israel, Hamas, etc...

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

...Now if you really care to continue debating about "Hamas" and "suitcase nukes," please start a new topic, as this thread is supposed to be about North Korea.

Considering it was post #7 (yours) on this thread which opened the worm-cans of Israel, Hamas, etc...

OWNED!

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

...Now if you really care to continue debating about "Hamas" and "suitcase nukes," please start a new topic, as this thread is supposed to be about North Korea.

Considering it was post #7 (yours) on this thread which opened the worm-cans of Israel, Hamas, etc...

OWNED!

Only in your dreams.

It seems you have both conveniently forgotten that it was Sriniv himself (I just can't bring myself to call a grown man "Cherry") who first opened the "worm-can" (lol) of Israel in this thread, and rch_99 (Lucky Strike) who first brought up Hamas.

Looks like you've both been

[Ban Hammer 12,830]

Yet Israel has yet to Nuke it's extremely unfriendly neighbors. How many hours after Hamas obtained a nuke would they use it on Israel? Be honest for once.

What a silly post.

Why don't you go acquaint yourself with a map, and then explain to me how "Hamas" is going to be able to "nuke Israel" without nuking the West Bank and Gaza along with it . Same goes for Israel -- they can't nuke their neighbors without the risk of nuking themselves (at least until they invent one that only affects certain humans and not others.)

does the phrase "favorable wind conditions" mean anything?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

does the phrase "favorable wind conditions" mean anything?

You must have somehow skipped Post # 23....

[Ban Hammer 12,830]

does the phrase "favorable wind conditions" mean anything?

You must have somehow skipped Post # 23....

no

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

...Now if you really care to continue debating about "Hamas" and "suitcase nukes," please start a new topic, as this thread is supposed to be about North Korea.

Considering it was post #7 (yours) on this thread which opened the worm-cans of Israel, Hamas, etc...

OWNED!

Only in your dreams.

It seems you have both conveniently forgotten that it was Sriniv himself (I just can't bring myself to call a grown man "Cherry") who first opened the "worm-can" (lol) of Israel in this thread, and rch_99 (Lucky Strike) who first brought up Hamas.

Looks like you've both been

Ok ok we were both owned

But seriously.... fallout doesn't kill nearly as many as the initial blast. At Hiroshima and Nagasaki the deaths after were a small fraction of the overall deaths. Radiation Protection is my profession.

"All measures of exposure will drop off by inverse square law."

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase...ces/isq.html#c4

" The Japanese atomic bombs had caused lethal exposures locally from radiation at the time of the explosions, but very little radiation more than a few kilometres away. On the other hand, subsequent atmospheric tests did not cause any substantial direct exposures of people at the time of the tests. However, the fission products released into the atmosphere caused the whole world population to be exposed to very low but continuing annual doses from fallout. In at least two instances these fission products also caused substantial irradiation to small populations exposed to local fallout close to the site of testing."

http://www.uic.com.au/nip29.htm