The eurozone really has only days to avoid collapse

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Gold is up another $30 dollars today!

You have an Irish flag so maybe you can answer a question for me. Seeing how the Brits stocked Northern Ireland with poor protestant Scots when invaded Ireland and changed the entire scenario over there...any idea when Ireland becomes a single united country again...or is England entitled to 1/4 of Ireland by divine right?

Edited December 1, 2011 by Why_Me

[Captain Oates 910]

I agree with that post...most all of it anyways was spot on. But Europe along with Germany has dirty hands when it comes to making money. Deutsche Bank doing business in Russia helped to recently bankroll the dictator in Belarus aka Alexander Lukashenko. That was after the Germans sold out their EU brothers in the East when they made a deal with the devil for the Nordstream Gas line. In fact the former German prime ministers Gerhard Shroeder got a job as a "consultant" for Gazprom. The same Russia that has a human rights violation record longer than my arm. It gets even better when Merkel sold out Ukraine to "seal the deal" on that gas line. I trust the Euro snakes as far as I could throw them.

Nabucco line which was suppose to free Europe from Russian gas got a shot in the foot when Bersculini offered the Kremlin a deal to run South Stream through Italy. It's kind of like when Europeans were committing genocide as recently as 1994 in the Balkans and Europeans stood around with their thumb up their ####### and did nothing. But I'm sure the Euro;s were all feeling the love when they were making their bombing runs over Tripoli.

I just hope for the Brits that they don't have to suffer through more riots like they did this summer.

The brits love to riot - well a certain section anyway. They usually do it in summer so November is unusual.

I worked for 3 years in local government and I actually get a tiny government pension. The people I was working with were getting their pensions at age 50 and they are index linked. An index linked pension costs double what a normal pension does. My job was all pencil and paper so I computerized it and then I had only 4 days work per month. I spent all the time learning VBA programming and doing spread betting on stocks and foreign exchanges. Local government bods have nothing to complain about. The hourly paid guys did a couple of hours work and then went to the pub. In the afternoon they went to the bookies then slept in their vans until knocking off time.

I check the house prices in England once a month and they are totally out of the reach of Americans - say $500k for a decent area and a small house about half the size of my house in Washington State which cost a lot less.

This tells me they aren't starving. Actually it was the same news in the recessions of 1995 and I remember Americans sending food parcels to the UK - so the reporting must have been the same then.

I am nipping over at xmas for a week and I hope the street lights are still on and there is heating in the hotel.

If the Pakistanis have gone back home I will know its gotten bad

As all this was caused by the US sub prime fraud, I think the US should give foreign aid to all European countries equivalent to 20% of their GDP for the next 10 years. That last sentence was a wind up for the red necks by the way, but there is a splash of truth in that the collapse started in the US and then spread

My German stocks were up 9% + today

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You have an Irish flag so maybe you can answer a question for me. Seeing how the Brits stocked Northern Ireland with poor protestant Scots when invaded Ireland and changed the entire scenario over there...any idea when Ireland becomes a single united country again...or is England entitled to 1/4 of Ireland by divine right?

All those of Irish ancestry in America should commandeer several ships and aircraft, and take back their historic homeland from those godless Brits. Occupy Donegall Square!

[Póg mo 1,749]

You have an Irish flag so maybe you can answer a question for me. Seeing how the Brits stocked Northern Ireland with poor protestant Scots when invaded Ireland and changed the entire scenario over there...any idea when Ireland becomes a single united country again...or is England entitled to 1/4 of Ireland by divine right?

Irish don't living in the South of Ireland seem to have little faith in Irish people running their own affairs, so it's difficult to see why people in the north would have real interest in creating a united Ireland.

[Póg mo 1,749]

Yet another bandaid has been applied to the patient. Woo hoo, more inflation for Americans savors.

Banks Act, Stocks Surge and Skeptics See a Pattern

By CHRISTINE HAUSER

A move announced by central bankers on Wednesday to contain the European debt crisis resulted in euphoria in global stock markets, but it also prompted skeptics to wonder: will this time be different?

As the crisis has worsened over the last 18 months, pronouncements of plans to fix the euro zone debt problems have led to more than a half-dozen rallies that just as quickly withered as the proposals fell short of hopes.

Wednesday’s rally was among the biggest yet, with the three main indexes on Wall Street rising 4 percent or more, and the Dow Jones industrial average rising 490.05 points, its largest gain since March 23, 2009. Still, some analysts warned that the central banks’ action addressed only some symptoms of the euro financial crisis, so this rally, too, could evaporate.

“It helps to prop up the banks for a while which is going to buy time for Europe to fix the problem,” Burt White, the chief investment officer for LPL Financial, said. “This is basically a Band-Aid.”

Financial shares in particular were lifted by the news.

Bank of America shares, which on Tuesday fell more than 3 percent, to $5.07, their lowest closing level since March 2009, were up 7.3 percent, at $5.44, on Wednesday. JPMorgan rose more than 8 percent to $30.97. Morgan Stanley was up more than 11 percent at $14.79.

On Wednesday, the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, the European Central Bank, the Bank of Japan, the Bank of Canada and the Swiss National Bank, trying to bolster financial markets as the euro zone debt crisis grinds on, announced that they would reduce by about half the cost of a program under which banks in foreign countries could borrow dollars from their own central banks, which in turn get those dollars from the Fed. The banks also said that loans would be available until February 2013, extending a previous deadline of August 2012.

The move is intended to free up liquidity and ensure that European banks have funds during the sovereign debt crisis. But some analysts saw it as a stop-gap measure to avoid a looming crisis that some compared to that set off by the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008.

“What it does do is take off some of the pressure from this boiling pot,” Mr. White said.

As the exuberance set in and funding pressures appeared to ease, bond prices fell, commodity prices rallied and financial shares soared as investors bought shares on the hope that the central banks had smoothed the way for Europe to take more forceful action in advance of a European summit meeting Dec. 9. The jump in stocks was also an extension of the turmoil and volatility that have characterized global markets for more than a year.

It was unclear even after Wednesday’s move whether banks would loosen up lending or whether the market enthusiasm would last.

Some noted sharp gains in equities in previous trading sessions have often failed to carry through, as European leaders had tried many times over the last two years to stave off a deterioration in the debt crisis. A recent attempt was on Oct. 27, when the broader market as measured by the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index rallied 4 percent on the hope that a new European plan could solve its problems. But it failed to sustain its gains.

That rally was one of eight times that the S.& P. had spiked up at least 4 percent since the end of 2008, while in the same period it experienced 10 declines of that size.

In addition, a summit meeting in July caused a global stock rally that collapsed in the subsequent days, with the S.& P. eventually sinking to its lowest level for the year.

Analysts were skeptical about whether Wednesday’s market enthusiasm would endure, and they also warned that the central banks’ move addressed only some symptoms of the euro zone financial crisis. Stanley A. Nabi, chief strategist for the Silvercrest Asset Management Group, said the coordinated action on Wednesday signaled that the problem had reached a crisis point, and that the central banks recognized there was a “lot of danger” in letting the current situation continue.

Steve Blitz, the senior economist for ITG Investment Research, said the central banks “are going to do what they can to ring-fence the European financials’ problems and keep them inside Europe.”

“They are trying to prevent them from seizing up global liquidity and capital flows and impacting banks and financial institutions throughout the world,” he said.

The S.& P. 500-stock index closed up 51.77 points, or 4.33 percent, at 1,246.96. The Dow was up 4.24 percent, to 12,045.68, and pushed into positive territory for the year and for the month of November. The Nasdaq composite index rose 104.83 points, or 4.17 percent, to 2,620.34.

Interest rates were higher. The Treasury’s benchmark 10-year note fell 24/32, to 99 12/32, and the yield rose to 2.07 percent, from 1.99 percent late Tuesday.

Ralph A. Fogel, head of investment strategy for Fogel Neale Wealth Management, said rates would probably remain low.

As for equities after the central bank announcement, Mr. Fogel said “the fear is off that there is going to be any sort of tremendous move down like there was in 2008,” referring to the financial crisis.

Analysts said they believed the central banks’ action targeted one of the symptoms, rather than the root or cause, of the euro zone problems.

Energy, materials and industrial sectors all powered ahead by more than 5 percent.

The dollar fell against an index of major currencies. The euro rose to $1.3433 from $1.3328.

The Euro Stoxx 50 closed up at 4.3 percent, and the CAC 40 in Paris ended up 4.2 percent, while the DAX index in Germany was up almost 5 percent. The FTSE 100 in London rose 3.16 percent.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-faces-deadline-thursday-airbus-spat-u-052102192.html

EU faces deadline Thursday in Airbus spat with U.S.

By Doug Palmer | Reuters – 4 hrs ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A dispute over government aid for aircraft rivals Airbus and Boeing enters a delicate stage on Thursday as Europe faces a deadline to tell the United States how it is eliminating billions of dollars in subsidies struck down by the World Trade Organization.

"It is by a huge margin the most commercially significant case the United States has ever prosecuted at the WTO," U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk said in a speech on Wednesday at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

The WTO found problems with European Union "launch aid" loans aimed at helping Airbus after the United States filed a complaint. A WTO appeals panel issued a final ruling against Airbus in May, giving the EU until Dec 1 to come into compliance.

The EU also has successfully challenged some U.S. government programs to help Boeing at the WTO, but that case is still in the appeals stage.

U.S. officials contend the two cases show European governments have provided more assistance to Airbus than the United States has to Boeing over the years.

The United States will have to judge whether it thinks the EU has taken adequate steps to address the problems cited by the WTO. If Washington is not satisfied, it could begin proceedings at the WTO to impose trade retaliation, known in trade jargon as "suspending concessions."

Kirk told the Chamber that the United States was open to a negotiated settlement that addresses "WTO-inconsistent" subsidies on both sides of the Atlantic.

But "this is a case that affects hundreds of thousands of jobs and we're determined to ensure this victory is not a paper victory," Kirk said.

EU Trade Commission Karel De Gucht told Reuters this week the EU would meet the deadline to give United States and the WTO its compliance plan.

He declined to say what steps the EU is taking, but said the "extensive" plan was crafted after consulting with the four European governments - Germany, France, Britain and Spain - targeted by the United States in the case.

Boeing officials said the EU is obligated to show it has already taken steps to comply with the WTO ruling.

"If the Europeans have not done anything to comply, other than to say what they plan to do, that is noncompliance," said Boeing lawyer Robert Novick, a partner at the law firm WilmerHale. "The U.S. could under WTO rules immediately seek authorization to suspend concessions."

Boeing believes the United States should vigorously enforce its rights if Airbus has done nothing to repay past European government subsidies for its A380 aircraft and is receiving new subsidies for other planes such as the A350.

"This provision of launch aid for plane after plane after plane with no indication of calibration on that is unsustainable. It's what the case was about. Enforcing this decision in a meaningful way is important to address that market-distorting behavior," Novick said.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://news.yahoo.com/europe-ramps-rescue-fund-may-turn-imf-040201465.html

Central banks act as euro zone crisis rages

By Robin Emmott and Kirsten Donovan | Reuters – 12 hrs ago

BRUSSELS/LONDON (Reuters) - The world's major central banks acted jointly on Wednesday to provide cheaper dollar funding to European banks facing a credit crunch as the euro zone's debt crisis drove EU ministers to urge more IMF help to avert financial disaster.

The emergency move by the U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank, and the central banks of Japan, Britain, Canada and Switzerland recalled coordinated action to stabilize global markets in the 2008 financial crisis after the collapse of Lehman Brothers.

In Italy, now the focal point of the euro debt crisis, the Treasury started emergency cash tenders for banks which have been squeezed particularly hard as Rome's borrowing costs have soared towards 8 percent, a level seen as unaffordable in the long term.

The euro and European shares surged on the central bank action, which came after euro zone finance ministers agreed to ramp up the firepower of their bailout fund but acknowledged they may have to turn to the International Monetary Fund for more help.

In a policy shift by Europe's main paymaster, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said Germany was open to increasing the IMF's resources through bilateral loans or more special drawing rights, reversing the stance Berlin took earlier this month at the Cannes G20 summit.

The new openness to a bigger IMF role came as Germany presses its EU partners to agree next week on treaty changes to create coercive powers to make euro zone countries change their budgets if they breach EU deficit and debt rules.

"The economic and monetary union will either have to be completed through much deeper integration or we will have to accept a gradual disintegration of over half a century of European integration," Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn told the European Parliament.

Two years into Europe's debt crisis, investors are fleeing the euro zone bond market, European banks are dumping government debt, south European banks are bleeding deposits and a recession looms, fuelling doubts about the survival of the single currency.

Euro zone leaders have agreed belatedly on one half-measure after another but have failed to restore confidence and some analysts now see a December 9 Brussels summit as a make-or-break moment for the euro.

Finance ministers agreed on Tuesday night on detailed plans to leverage the European Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSF), but could not say by how much because of rapidly worsening market conditions, prompting them to look to the IMF.

"We are now looking at a true financial crisis -- that is a broad-based disruption in financial markets," Christian Noyer, France's central bank governor and a governing council member of the European Central Bank, told a conference in Singapore.

Italian and Spanish bond yields resumed their inexorable climb towards unsustainable levels on Wednesday, as markets assessed the rescue fund boost as inadequate, but fell back on news of the central banks' joint action.

"It must also be remembered that the EFSF is already funding at very wide levels (high borrowing costs) over Germany, struggled in its last auction to raise the required funds and would have its rating put under severe pressure by any rating downgrade of France," Rabobank strategists said in a note.

"This must call into question any plans related to the EFSF. It is yesterday's solution and the market has simply moved on."

IMF TO MATCH?

The 17-nation Eurogroup adopted detailed plans to insure the first 20-30 percent of new bond issues for countries having funding difficulties and to create co-investment funds to attract foreign investors to buy euro zone government bonds.

Both schemes would be operational by January with about 250 billion euros from the euro zone's EFSF bailout fund available to leverage after funding a second rescue program for Greece, Eurogroup chairman Jean-Claude Juncker said.

The aim was for the IMF to match and support the new firepower of the EFSF, Juncker told a news conference.

But with China and other major sovereign funds cautious about investing more in euro zone debt, EFSF chief Klaus Regling said he did not expect investors to commit major amounts to the leveraging options in the next days or weeks, and he could not put a figure on the final size of the leveraged fund.

"It is really not possible to give one number for leveraging because it is a process. We will not give out 100 billion next month, we will need money as we go along," Regling said.

Most analysts agree that only more radical measures such as massive intervention by the ECB to buy government bonds directly or indirectly can staunch the crisis.

The prospects of drawing the IMF more deeply into supporting the euro zone are uncertain. Several big economies are skeptical of European calls for more resources for the global lender.

The United States, Japan and other Asian states are hesitant to chip in unless Europe commits to first use its own resources to fix the problem and peripheral euro zone states map out more concrete steps on fiscal and economic reforms.

"Nobody wants to spend money on something they doubt would work," a G20 official said.

"That goes not only for Europe but for any other country outside Europe. The threshold for seeking IMF help is quite high. Those seeking help need to be willing to give up some of their jurisdiction on fiscal policy and willing to undergo painful reform. Mere pledges and speeches won't do."

MONTI DENIES IMF BID

New Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti said he had received a very positive reaction from the euro zone ministers to his fiscal plans, although he was told to take extra deficit cutting measures beyond an austerity plan already adopted to meet its balanced budget promise in 2013.

He also said he had met the head of the IMF's European department on Wednesday but Italy had not considered taking help from the Fund.

Reuters reported on Tuesday that Italian and IMF officials have held preliminary discussions on some form of financial support for Rome, although no decision has been taken, according to sources familiar with the talks.

Italian bond yields are now above the levels at which Greece, Ireland and Portugal were forced to apply for EU/IMF bailouts, and Rome has a wall of issuance due from late January to roll over maturing debt.

The Eurogroup ministers agreed to release their portion of an 8 billion euro aid payment to Greece, the sixth installment of 110 billion euros of EU/IMF loans agreed last year and necessary to help Athens stave off the immediate threat of default.

Juncker said the money would be released by mid-December, once the IMF signs off on its portion early next month.

G20 leaders promised this month to boost the global lender's warchest. However, another G20 source said policymakers had made no progress since then in efforts to boost IMF resources, which at current levels may not be sufficient to overcome the crisis.

EU sources said one option being explored is for euro system central banks to lend to the IMF so it can in turn lend to Italy and Spain while applying IMF borrowing conditions.

With Germany opposed to the idea of the ECB providing liquidity to the EFSF or acting as a lender of last resort, the euro zone needs a way of calming markets and fast.

The ECB shows no sign yet of responding to widespread calls to massively increase its bond-buying although EU officials said it may have to shift, even if the EFSF gained IMF help.

A Reuters poll of economists showed a 40 percent chance of the ECB stepping up purchases with freshly printed money within six months, something it has opposed so far.

The poll forecast a 60 percent chance of an ECB rate cut to 1.0 percent next week and a big majority of economists said they expect the central bank to announce new long-term liquidity tenders to help keep banks afloat at its next meeting on Dec 8.

[Captain Oates 910]

All those of Irish ancestry in America should commandeer several ships and aircraft, and take back their historic homeland from those godless Brits. Occupy Donegall Square!

AS far as Irish economics are concerned, I think Oliver Cromwell had it right

Its a pretty insignificant matter anyway seeing as Yorkshire has a bigger population of better quality than Scotland, or Wales, or Ireland, and the North Of England invented the industrial revolution, without which many populations all over the world would still be scratching a living.

The North American Indians hadn't even invented the wheel at a time when the North of England was inventing and building steam locomotives

The tiny, and essentially parasitic nature of the Irish tax haven ploy, will never amount to much, other than a soggy alternative to Switzerland as a home for American companies attempting to take tax revenue out of the mouths of their own citizens. eg Transocean (RIG) who polluted the gulf, blamed it on BP, moved from the Cayman Islands to Switzerland and are probably eying Dublin as their next safe house. 4 employees in Switzerland and 10,000 in Houston.

The Irish have lived off EC subsidies and sharp practice with subsidized cows getting seasick from making secret journeys back and forth to France to collect EC money while being the 'free enterprise' and 'no government money' darlings of people like Kudlow on CNBC

These peripheral scammers in Greece and Ireland (and a couple more) should be thrown out of the Euro and the EC so that serious players can get on with the real business and the bandidos in Dublin can then court the USA even more to try and make a quick buck, while playing on the unsophisticated prejudices of the Irish-American population.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Ashud Cocoa

[Póg mo 1,749]

AS far as Irish economics are concerned, I think Oliver Cromwell had it right

Its a pretty insignificant matter anyway seeing as Yorkshire has a bigger population of better quality than Scotland, or Wales, or Ireland, and the North Of England invented the industrial revolution, without which many populations all over the world would still be scratching a living.

Truth be told, the UK is in nearly as much economic trouble as Ireland. Fact is if it weren't the UK's financial industry, it wouldn't even have much of an economy.

The North American Indians hadn't even invented the wheel at a time when the North of England was inventing and building steam locomotives

They didn't need to, native American's were light years ahead of Europe in terms of agriculture production and didn't need to force their people into overcrowded filthy cities for survival.

The tiny, and essentially parasitic nature of the Irish tax haven ploy,

England taught us well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1iySNMPGvU

[Póg mo 1,749]

In today's debt crisis, Germany is the US of 1931

Germany's own history shows that dictating economic decline to other nations only stores up trouble for the future

A country faces an economic and political abyss: the government is on the brink of bankruptcy and pursues fierce austerity policies; public employees take huge pay cuts and taxes are drastically increased; the economy slumps and unemployment rates explode; people fight each other on the street while banks collapse and international capital flees the country. Greece in 2011? No, Germany in 1931.

The government's head is not Lucas Papademos, but Heinrich Brüning. The "hunger-chancellor" cuts government spending by decree, ignoring parliament while GDP falls without limit. Two years later Hitler will be in power, eight years later the second world war will begin. Today's political situation is still different, but the economic parallels are frightening.

Like in today's crisis countries, Germany's key problem in 1931 was foreign debts. The US was Germany's biggest creditor, Germany's debts were denominated in US dollars. Since the mid-1920s, its government had borrowed huge sums abroad to service reparation payments vis-à-vis France and Great Britain. Foreign credit also financed Germany's roaring twenties – the economic boom after the 1923 hyperinflation. Like Spain, Ireland and Greece today, Germany's 1920s upswing was caused by a credit bubble.

The bubble burst when US financial markets collapsed in 1929. US investors and banks were hit hard, lost confidence and reduced their risks – especially their investments in European assets. Credit flows into Germany, Austria and Hungary came to a sudden halt. US investors did not want Reichsmark – Germany's own currency – but dollars, a currency the German Reichsbank could not print. The dollar withdrawal out of Germany – especially out of German bank deposits – led to the quick depletion of the Reichsbank's currency reserves.

To earn dollars Germany had to turn its huge current account deficit into a surplus. But like today's crisis countries, Germany was trapped in a currency system with fixed exchange rates, the gold standard, and could not devalue its currency. However, even upon leaving the gold standard, chancellor Brüning and his economic advisers feared the inflationary effects of a devaluation and a replay of the 1923 hyperinflation.

Without dollar liquidity from abroad, the only way the government could turn around the current account was fierce wage and cost deflation. In just two years Brüning cut public spending by 30%. The chancellor raised taxes and cut wages and social security expenditures in the face of ever increasing unemployment and poverty. Real GNP dropped by 8% in 1931 and by 13% a year later, unemployment increased to 30% and money kept spilling out of the country. The current account turned from a huge deficit into a small surplus.

But there were not enough dollars available on world markets. In 1930 the US Congress had introduced the Smoot-Hawley-tariff to keep imports out of the country. Countries with dollar debts were cut off from the US market and could not earn the necessary money to service their debts. The situation didn't improve when president Hoover proposed a one year moratorium on all of Germany's foreign debt. The moratorium was opposed both by France – which insisted on German reparation payments – and the US Congress. When Congress finally passed the moratorium in December 1931 it was too little, too late.

In the summer of 1931, German banks began to fail, causing both a credit crunch and huge public aid packages to save the biggest banks. The banks had to be closed and the government defaulted on its debts. The Hoover moratorium and a policy of fiscal expansion under Brüning's successor von Papen came too late: bankruptcies and unemployment kept rising and the Nazis gained political ground.

The parallels to today's economic situation are frightening: Greece, Ireland and Portugal have to pursue fierce austerity policies under the pressure of creditor countries and financial markets in order to turn their current account balances from deficit to surplus; Greek unemployment stands at 18%, Ireland's at 14% and Portugal's at 12%, Spain's even at 22%. And those who could help don't do enough: Germany and the German central bankers demand drastic austerity and only give piecemeal and insufficient help in return – too little, too late, now and then.

Much would have been gained for Germany in 1931 if the US – and also France – had provided the necessary liquidity for German banks and its government. Maybe the political radicalisation could have been avoided. But the US was turning isolationist. It did not want to get involved in messy European affairs.

Today Germany plays the US role. Both parliament and the government hesitate to provide the necessary help for the crisis countries: within the EFSF, Germany is willing to guarantee only up to €211bn of crisis country borrowing. This is not enough. The 2008 guarantees for the German banking system were €480bn.

Germany still insists on its current account surpluses. These are, by definition, the deficits of the crisis countries. Thus they keep these countries from earning the money to service their debts. Further, Germany fiercely opposes liquidity credits by the ECB. German economists and central banker justify the ECB's passivity with the threat of inflation. But they mix up the historical lessons from Germany's 1923 hyperinflation and its 1931 deflation and unemployment crisis.

This failure of judgment can easily backfire: Germany's reputation all over Europe is already declining, political tensions in crisis countries with record unemployment are increasing drastically and the ever more likely breakup of the eurozone would threaten Germany's economy, especially its banks and exports.

The US learnt the hard way that it had to take responsibility for the world's economic stability. The second world war was one of the consequences of the 1930s crisis that it could have prevented.

After having failed to stabilise the world economic system in the early 1930s, by 1945 the US had learned that only economic co-operation could lead to a peaceful and prosperous world. Via the Marshall plan and the opening up of its markets for European exports it allowed Europe to rebuild its destroyed economy. Meanwhile, US exporters profited from Europe's hunger for investment and consumption goods.

Until the early 1970s the US led the international trade and currency system – the Bretton Woods system – thereby guaranteeing economic prosperity, a free market with social equity and thus the economic pre-requisites for social democracy.

Both the German public and politicians should learn from history. Solidarity with the crisis countries is in Germany's long-run interest. The German government should stop abusing its power to dictate economic decline to other nations. The alternative is economic stagnation and increased tensions between European nations. The verdict still holds: those who are not willing to learn from history are bound to repeat it.

© 2011 Guardian News and Media Limited or its affiliated companies. All rights reserved.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2011/nov/24/debt-crisis-germany-1931

[Captain Oates 910]

Truth be told, the UK is in nearly as much economic trouble as Ireland. Fact is if it weren't the UK's financial industry, it wouldn't even have much of an economy.

They didn't need to, native American's were light years ahead of Europe in terms of agriculture production and didn't need to force their people into overcrowded filthy cities for survival.

England taught us well

You cant have it both ways - you cant say that England is a high tax socialist economy and a small, low tax haven,parasitic economy

The UK has a lot of high tech industry - they are a major arms exporting country and have drugs companies like Glaxo and they are big in aerospace, making major parts of the airbus, whereas Ireland ....

The UK has BP and Shell and BHP Billington the miners and thousands of high tech companies like McClaren, and as you say, a major financial industry. So although operations are International, the brains come from the British companies.

Without American companies diddling their own citizens by locating their tax headquarters in Ireland, Ireland would only export dried peat, priests, bottled Guinness, and little else

Ireland, as I say, is a tiny place, smaller than Yorkshire in population and a land that people have always been glad to emigrate from and never return.

The younger Irish people are emigrating at an even faster rate than usual, and now that the catholic church has allowed the government to legalize condoms, the population is set to reduce further

They should certainly be shown the Euro door along with Greece but they could stay in the EU like the UK does.

[Póg mo 1,749]

You cant have it both ways - you cant say that England is a high tax socialist economy and a small, low tax haven,parasitic economy

Where have I ever said that England was a high tax socialist economy?

[Captain Oates 910]

Where have I ever said that England was a high tax socialist economy?

Well how can it be a low tax parasitic tax haven economy ?

The UK is well placed with its current low exchange rate against the dollar 1.56726 a few minutes ago

When I came to the USA it was 2.10 so it will come back like a train when the economy picks up, which it is doing (stocks up 7% this week)

They were lucky to avoid the euro and they will reap huge benefits from that. I have a lot of UK stocks so I am hoping for a double whammy as their profits keep surging plus a rising exchange rate

These are the top 100 companies on the London Exchange - they are formidable and international >>

FTSE 100

[The_Dude 1,142]

InKorea, you'll soon learn on these boards, you don't argue with Alan. He is both the lion and the lamb, and will feast on your noobery. Even when your right, Alan will browbeat you down with your own words, and then some.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

InKorea, you'll soon learn on these boards, you don't argue with Alan. He is both the lion and the lamb, and will feast on your noobery. Even when your right, Alan will browbeat you down with your own words, and then some.

InKorea, he speaks from experience. Alan got the goldmine, and Rob got the shaft!