Birth Certificate Issues

[thetoadlord 0]

Hello;

I am currently going through the permanent residency process (green card) with my husband, I am a US citizen by birth, etc. etc. My husband was born in Russia and then taken by convoluted means to the Netherlands as a child; he entered the US last fall on the VWP with his Dutch citizenship. Then we got married, filed a giant package, got our notices of action and started this whole three ring circus of permanent residency.

A few weeks ago we were faced with a demand for his birth certificate, which we didn't think he had. After digging and badgering his parents enough, though, we found out he does have a birth certificate, although they have concerns over what is written on it and as a result are afraid to cough over the certificate. So my husband and I have consulted with two immigration attorneys here who both say we should amend our G-325A for him and submit the birth certificate, because the USCIS isn't concerned with where his parents are or how they came to reside there, and they are not going to tell the Dutch authorities if some of the information on his birth certificate doesn't match 100%.

So feeling rather secure after talking to the attorneys, we asked again for the birth certificate, and again and again and again. Now we are finally told that they don't want to give it to us because it also has some kind of government stamps on it from when they took him back to Russia aged 16 and his father had his passport issued (or renewed? we have no idea); these stamps have to do with the fact he was coming up on military conscription age at the time they took him back in 2003.

So now, we're worried all over again. I've contacted the attorneys we consulted, and am waiting for replies from them as to what they think, but honestly neither of them inspired us with great confidence. We feel like we're taking a gamble if we submit it and we know with certainty that our legal status in the US is compromised if we do not; on the other hand, we also do not want to compromise his family's or his status as Dutch citizens; the last thing we want is for any, or all, of them to be deported to Russia where there is also nothing for any of them.

Do we stay safe and choose to be together but with really, truly nothing (no job, currently no place to stay, no source of income, I don't speak the language) in the Netherlands, and a very hard time ever coming back to the US together after the fact because of what would then be the failed case behind us? (So, option one: don't submit the birth certificate, leave my job and family and stay together in the Netherlands somehow.)

Do we take the gamble and amend his G-325A and submit his birth certificate, if we can get it? If this blew up in our face it could end up with him and his family being deported from the Netherlands, prison in Russia and military conscription for him, etc. Also, would the more recent stamps on his birth certificate (we have no idea what they are, we've never seen it) potentially cause him to be looked at more closely? We're reasonably sure he does have Russian citizenship, but what we've looked into so far makes it seem that renouncing Russian citizenship is kind of impossible anyway, and he doesn't have any documents or papers associated with that, all those were kept and handled by his parents.

The attorneys seem very confident in their statements about the overall non-importance of his birth certificate (we will be denied without it, but what is on it is not likely to throw anything into turmoil) and the disinterest of the USCIS in enforcing or informing international citizenship or immigration laws, and my husband has no interest in ever being a US citizen, he really is only staying here for me, but we're very concerned about all of this. We're going to consult with a third attorney at the end of this week, but any responses from those who may have been in similar circumstances themselves would be appreciated.

Thank you;

- thetoadlord

[Little_My 464]

It seems like for now, there are more things you don't know than things you know about this whole situation, which always a bit risky. What do you mean exactly when you say "taken to Netherlands by convoluted means"? How did he and his parents obtain Dutch citizenship? I'd assume his parents got the citizenship through naturalization process, and he got it through them? It is possible to lose citizenship acquired by naturalization, if that citizenship was originally acquired through fraud - is that the case here? I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around why his parents are so concerned about giving the BC and what it is they are afraid of.

It is also possible to renounce Russian citizenship. Whether or not it happens automatically if he has not lived in the country since he was a child, I don't know, but it can be renounced by the former citizen. This is what the web site of the US Embassy in St. Petersburg says (and though this is particularly about US citizens, I don't think it makes a differenc to which country you are immigrating to, to be able to renounce your Russian citizenship..)

U.S. citizens who have at one time held Russian citizenship are often required to renounce Russian citizenship before applying for a Russian visa in their U.S. passport. Unless a former Russian citizen has formally renounced his or her Russian citizenship through a Russian Embassy or Consulate, he or she always risks being considered a Russian citizen and not allowed to depart on any travel document except a Russian passport. This can also interfere with access to U.S. consular services in case of an emergency. This risk is greatly diminished if the traveler enters Russia on a U.S. passport and Russian visa.

In any case, I think the first thing you should try to do is..

1. Figure out if he is a Russian citizen or not;

2. Figure out what exactly those stamps are;

3. Try to find out how his parents obtained Dutch citizenship

If he is no longer a Russian citizen, conscription to the armed forces does not apply to him. If he is a Russian citizen.. Well, then it can be a whole other matter and a can of worms to sort through.

[Myopia 93]

This is really one of those cases that needed to be figured out before the package was submitted because as you know , once this thing has started, there is only going to be two resolutions for your family. One of them is denial and one is approval.

The question is which do you want the most.

Your husband needs proof of his birth. That is a requirement and the fact that his parents got Dutch citizenship through obviously fraudulent means doesnt not bode well in achieving that goal.

You will have to convince the parents to give you the birth certificate. They are probably older and don;t really understand that the US doesn't have jurisdiction in Russia or The Netherlands and really can't force anything to happen BUT it could. That is a reality but the bottom line is without that certificate, your husband's case will probably be denied adjudication and he will not be able to appeal that decision.

You don't have a lot of time but you may need to be inventive. You could go to the Netherlands and get the certificate. Maybe they would be more willing to help with you in their face. If not you, then maybe there is a friend in the Netherlands who will be able to speak to the parents and reassure them in some way.

You could choose to live over there. You know that he has the right to live and work anywhere in the EU and that includes the UK. You could have a good life there or anywhere in the EU if you choose that route. It's up to you.

This is a real pickle and I wish you both ease in this affair.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Previous topic with more information here http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/299055-uscis-birth-certificate-requirement/page__p__4525275#entry4525275

Can you contact Russia (or an embassy) and get birth records from a central location instead of asking his parents? It probably won't help with the fraud, though. Good luck.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

To me, prima facie, this looks like a Pandora's box.

The first problem is that you want to do AOS after a long overstay from VWP. That's already pretty risky, often impossible.

The second problem is that if your husband has Netherland citizenship, he lost his Russian one already as Russia does not allow dual citizenship. If his daddy got him a new Russian passport, it was perhaps (or not) by fraudulent means. Same applies to the parents' status in regard to Holland and Russia. (Note that quite a few ex-Russian citizens play this dangerous game.)

Clearly, this is a case that need to have a competent immigration attorney involved who needs to know everything, every little detail, about this case, which we do not.

On a positive note, the US immigration folks do not communicate much with their counterparts in Europe or Russia, so if there's an "issue" with the birth certificate, it would only effect your husband's US petition, but would not radiate over the the Old World.