Question about a tenant breaking 1 year lease agreement AND wants his deposit back!

[Laveau 67]

Option 3 may cost you mor than it is worth and what happens when you get a judgement. No deposit returna d get the place back on the market ASAP.

Ditto on what Gary said. I sued a lady in small claims court and won the case. BUT I didn't get a dime. To enforce it I would have had to chalk up more court fees which I didn't have. Furthermore, I had to pay court fes to sue her in the first place.

Two big lessons learned, however.

Glad it all worked out for you!

[Fandango 1,439]

I'm not sure your definition of garbage but for me it is written to perfection. It states everything it needs to state clearly and concisely. No more words were needed.

The goal was to make it clear that it is a 1 year lease (the prior tenants thought they were on a month to month) and to explain that the money is not a "deposit" but a credit for the first and last months rent.

So take your garbage piss poor crappy attitude to another site, it's not wanted here.

Le sigh...I'm a realtor...and as I said, in my state, you could wipe your azz with that lease. It's not meant to upset you, it's the truth. (btw - 'etc' written in a legal document is not 'clearly and concisely' no matter how you spin it.)

Why did you post the exact lease as written if you didn't want comments? Oh wait, you just wanted a little sunshine blown up your azz? 'oh wow that's such an awesome lease, you r0x0rs!'

As far as my 'garbage piss poor crappy attitude'...pot kettle. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss here, lol It's unfortunate you can't seem to handle the truth. *shrug*

Edited November 6, 2010 by Lisa C

[웃 910]

Le sigh...I'm a realtor...and as I said, in my state, you could wipe your azz with that lease. It's not meant to upset you, it's the truth. (btw - 'etc' written in a legal document is not 'clearly and concisely' no matter how you spin it.)

Why did you post the exact lease as written if you didn't want comments? Oh wait, you just wanted a little sunshine blown up your azz? 'oh wow that's such an awesome lease, you r0x0rs!'

As far as my 'garbage piss poor crappy attitude'...pot kettle. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss here, lol It's unfortunate you can't seem to handle the truth. *shrug*

Did my contract make it clear that the $825 is never to be returned to the tenant? YES. Therefore my mission is complete and I can rest easy.

What exactly is so garbage about my lease agreement? I am not looking for people to say: "Wow! You wrote such an amazing 3 sentence lease agreement. Can I pay you to write mine. There are law firms that would hire you in a second because of your talent to write"....Lmao. Not sure where you got the idea that because I posted my lease agreement I am looking for "sunshine blown up my azz"!!!! Maybe you don't get much attention in your life so you have a bias to think the way you do. Sorry if that is the case.

Anyways, where precisely did I go wrong besides committing the fatal error of including etcetera in the contract?

I have the property address on the contract, it states the dates, how much rent is, who pays what, and that the $825 + $825 will never be returned under any circumstances (see beginning of thread to see that the first tenant demanded his $825 be returned to him upon moving out). I have copies of their drivers licenses, 2 former addresses, prior work history, pay checks with social security number on them, first and last names of both new tenants with both signatures matching signatures on their Michigan drivers license.

So again, where exactly did I go so wrong??? Will these tenants ever ask me for their $825 back like the first tenants? No because it is in the contract.

[luckytxn 2,263]

so, the sink breaks, and the tenants agree to pay $100 to fix your house???

Yepper if I or I send someone over to fix it. They can fix it themselves though and maybe save money. They know it before they sign the lease and can accept it or not. The last time I accepted tenants last year I had about 10 wanting to rent the house in 4 days before I stopped looking and just chose from them. Take it or leave it. Definitely will stop them calling me for every little thing that needs fixed.

[Fandango 1,439]

Did my contract make it clear that the $825 is never to be returned to the tenant? YES. Therefore my mission is complete and I can rest easy.

What exactly is so garbage about my lease agreement? I am not looking for people to say: "Wow! You wrote such an amazing 3 sentence lease agreement. Can I pay you to write mine. There are law firms that would hire you in a second because of your talent to write"....Lmao. Not sure where you got the idea that because I posted my lease agreement I am looking for "sunshine blown up my azz"!!!! Maybe you don't get much attention in your life so you have a bias to think the way you do. Sorry if that is the case.

Anyways, where precisely did I go wrong besides committing the fatal error of including etcetera in the contract?

I have the property address on the contract, it states the dates, how much rent is, who pays what, and that the $825 + $825 will never be returned under any circumstances (see beginning of thread to see that the first tenant demanded his $825 be returned to him upon moving out). I have copies of their drivers licenses, 2 former addresses, prior work history, pay checks with social security number on them, first and last names of both new tenants with both signatures matching signatures on their Michigan drivers license.

So again, where exactly did I go so wrong??? Will these tenants ever ask me for their $825 back like the first tenants? No because it is in the contract.

As far as a lease goes, you would have been better off getting those $49.95 sample lease agreements off the net, because yours fails to mention a lot and is too vague wrt 'etc'.

I asked if you wanted sunshine because when I said your lease would be garbage here, you flipped out. If you don't want opinion other than 'wtg! congrats!' then I dunno what to tell ya.

[luckytxn 2,263]

Ditto on what Gary said. I sued a lady in small claims court and won the case. BUT I didn't get a dime. To enforce it I would have had to chalk up more court fees which I didn't have. Furthermore, I had to pay court fes to sue her in the first place.

Two big lessons learned, however.

Glad it all worked out for you!

Piece of cake. A couple of times I didn't get paid I just went to the judge and ask for a garnishment and was given one. (of course make sure you also add the court fees). I went to the ex tenants employer and gave it to them and received my money. I must add that the ex tenants came and paid me right away a few days later and I had to go and remove the garnishment.

We don't have to get a lawyer for these simple things. We can do this stuff ourselves. Just like on this website we do this on our own without the need for a lawyer.

[웃 910]

As far as a lease goes, you would have been better off getting those $49.95 sample lease agreements off the net, because yours fails to mention a lot and is too vague wrt 'etc'.

I asked if you wanted sunshine because when I said your lease would be garbage here, you flipped out. If you don't want opinion other than 'wtg! congrats!' then I dunno what to tell ya.

The original lease was bought at Office Depot. There were two problems. Number 1 is my dads copy didn't even have the tenants signature, and number 2 it said nothing about the tenant NOT getting their deposit back. You deal with selling houses, so you are used to 40 page documents that nobody even reads but signs anyway. I take it you have never dealt with a lease agreement for a rental property.

Sorry, but I would take my lease agreement with 3 or 4 sentences anyday over the office depot lease agreement full of legal jargon and way too many words.

I feel a million times better with the contract I wrote up that clearly states the tenants do not get a cash back bonus when they leave. I am fully protected, and you cannot point to any specifics (besides saying "etc.") that makes my contract vague. Why again is my contract "garbage" and might as well be "wiped on someones azz!" ?

Edited November 7, 2010 by Lord Infamous

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Yepper if I or I send someone over to fix it. They can fix it themselves though and maybe save money. They know it before they sign the lease and can accept it or not. The last time I accepted tenants last year I had about 10 wanting to rent the house in 4 days before I stopped looking and just chose from them. Take it or leave it. Definitely will stop them calling me for every little thing that needs fixed.

That won't work in California, or most states. Any out of pocket expenses the tenant pays to maintain your property, could be deducted from any rent the tenant owes you. The only obligation the tenant has, is to inform you immediately of the need for repairs, and allow you to make those repairs in a timely basis. If the tenant wants to push the issue, you could be made to pay for accommodations elsewhere, until the rental unit is brought back to satisfactory condition. Certain states, like California, require the lease agreement to conform to law, or the agreement will be unenforceable, except as permitted by law.

[scandal 951]

So again, where exactly did I go so wrong??? Will these tenants ever ask me for their $825 back like the first tenants? No because it is in the contract.

Just because you include some language in the contract does not necessarily mean it's enforceable. If you include restrictions or requirements that violate, for example, state tenant protection laws or federal laws regarding discrimination, health and safety, etc. then those clauses will not stand up in court regardless of whether you get the tenants to sign or not.

In your case, you live in Michigan which has a Truth in Renting Statute, and a Security Deposit Act. These state laws grant you certain rights and responsibilities as a landlord, and also grant your tenant rights and responsibilities. Simply writing a private contract which ignores these laws does NOT remove your responsibility from complying with them. There's a reason that standard rental contracts are longer than your homemade effort - because they're drafted to comply with the laws, and will more likely hold up under court scrutiny than a DIY contract.

In particular, here's a web link that took me all of 15 seconds to Google. I suggest you do some similar homework as well.

http://www.tenant.net/Other_Areas/Michigan/p1/truth.html

"My lease says I forfeit my security deposit if I break my lease."

The use of security deposits is governed by Michigan P.A. 348,1972. Your lease cannot waive any of your rights under the Security Deposit Act. A security deposit has a specific purpose: to reimburse the landlord for damage to the rental unit, unpaid rent, or unpaid utility bills left by the tenant. (See "Security Deposit.")

Calling the "Security Deposit" the "Last Month's Rent" is an obvious attempt to duck the Security Deposit Act in your state, and has about as much chance of standing up to challenge as Nancy Pelosi has of being on Rush Limbaugh's Christmas card list.

Good Luck L.I. - I understand your motivations to avoid getting burned again as you feel you were by the last tenant. But do some homework, and stay within your state's laws.

BTW - with regard to your original post about the tenant that broke the lease early - here's the legal skinny on that too:

"My lease doesn't expire until September but I want to move out in June. Can I be held responsible for the rent for the remainder of the lease?"

Your lease cannot require that you automatically pay the entire amount of rent remaining if you break the lease. Your landlord probably will charge you rent for the period during which he/she is unable to find a tenant. It is to your advantage to help the landlord find a new tenant. If you have to break lease, both you and your landlord have a duty to mitigate damages. This means that each of you has a responsibility to minimize the cost to each other. Your landlord has a duty to actively seek a new tenant for the rental unit and cannot charge you for rent after he or she has found a new tenant.

[웃 910]

Just because you include some language in the contract does not necessarily mean it's enforceable. If you include restrictions or requirements that violate, for example, state tenant protection laws or federal laws regarding discrimination, health and safety, etc. then those clauses will not stand up in court regardless of whether you get the tenants to sign or not.

In your case, you live in Michigan which has a Truth in Renting Statute, and a Security Deposit Act. These state laws grant you certain rights and responsibilities as a landlord, and also grant your tenant rights and responsibilities.

(...)

Calling the "Security Deposit" the "Last Month's Rent" is an obvious attempt to duck the Security Deposit Act in your state, and has about as much chance of standing up to challenge as Nancy Pelosi has of being on Rush Limbaugh's Christmas card list.

Lets just put it like this. It is crystal clear that both parties 100% understand that they are paying for the first and last months rent, and not putting down a massive ($800+) "security deposit" that they get upon moving out. That is a huge incentive for someone to break the 1 year lease (as the former tenants did).

So bottom line is if these two new tenants are "evil" and just so happen to connect with an "evil lawyer" and they look over the part of the contract they both signed that says (in regards to the $825) "This IS NOT a deposit that you get back at the end of the lease, it is a payment for the first month and a credit (payment) for the last month of rent." then it is possible the lawyer informs them that if they pay a few hundred bucks to the corrupt lawyer then he may be able to scam the landlord out of $825 leaving them with $500 leftover. It would be a huge hassle, it would be wrong and immoral (and in my humble opinion would NEVER HAPPEN IN 500 MILLION YEARS). But yes, it is possible.

Most tenants/landlords try to settle all legal matters out of court because nobody likes to wait around months for a verdict. It's what happened with the former tenants (they said they would see us in court about the money, we explained that it will take months, there are court costs involved, and they may not even get the settlement they are looking for) and we resolved the matter in 1 telephone call.

I would actually enjoy going to court with the new tenants 11 months down the road to see if they get their $825 cash reward for moving out. Again, I would say the odds that EVEN THE THOUGHT of trying to get an $825 rent payment given back to them will not cross their minds during the course of their stay. Why would it? It is well beyond clear that it's not a down payment, deposit, security insurance, or whatever terminology is being used. It'd be like them trying to take me to court saying it is really a 3 month lease instead of a 1 year lease. Completely made up and not in the contract that they both signed.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Lord Infamous

[Fandango 1,439]

Yepper if I or I send someone over to fix it. They can fix it themselves though and maybe save money. They know it before they sign the lease and can accept it or not. The last time I accepted tenants last year I had about 10 wanting to rent the house in 4 days before I stopped looking and just chose from them. Take it or leave it. Definitely will stop them calling me for every little thing that needs fixed.

Dude, you are lucky...that wouldn't fly here either. Unless perhaps their negligence broke whatever it was in question.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Lisa C

[slim 1,514]

If you have the money in hand.... keep it.

Is he going to take you to court over $825? And even if he does, what judge in the world is going to order you to give it back? You guys had an agreement, he broke it, and as such he loses his deposit. Case closed.

Get him out of there, rent the apt. to someone else and press on with your life.

[luckytxn 2,263]

That won't work in California, or most states. Any out of pocket expenses the tenant pays to maintain your property, could be deducted from any rent the tenant owes you. The only obligation the tenant has, is to inform you immediately of the need for repairs, and allow you to make those repairs in a timely basis. If the tenant wants to push the issue, you could be made to pay for accommodations elsewhere, until the rental unit is brought back to satisfactory condition. Certain states, like California, require the lease agreement to conform to law, or the agreement will be unenforceable, except as permitted by law.

And it would also apply in my case. If something breaks down and it is no fault of the tenant then I pay. If things break down and the tenant is at fault they pay. We do a walk around at the beginning of the lease and any and all defects are noted. I am sure in California that if the tenant breaks something they have to pay. Now last year the air conditioner went out. It was the condenser. I replaced and fixed at my own cost. Another tenant broke a fan and light. She paid to fix it. Another one did break a sink. The sink doesn't just break down on its own and she actually fixed it herself to avoid paying to fix it. Don't break my house and no pay. Very simple.

[luckytxn 2,263]

Dude, you are lucky...that wouldn't fly here either. Unless perhaps their negligence broke whatever it was in question.

That is what they are paying for. They break my house they pay. They have to pay to keep the house maintained also. If they want to make any changes they have to ask me beforehand and if I agree then they have to pay and on top of that They have to keep the changes in place even after the lease is over and they leave.

I guess I should add that I also use a Realtor friend of mine to find my tenants. I also use their own lease contracts with any and all additions that I want in them. Texas does have a tenant rights but I also have a landlord rights. The lease goes over all this too. Texas is very strong on contract law. Make sure to read any contract that you are signing.

[scandal 951]

If you have the money in hand.... keep it.

Is he going to take you to court over $825? And even if he does, what judge in the world is going to order you to give it back? You guys had an agreement, he broke it, and as such he loses his deposit. Case closed.

Get him out of there, rent the apt. to someone else and press on with your life.

Obviously L.I. can - and will - do whatever he wants. If he feels comfortable with his DIY lease, so be it.

Both he and you are wrong in thinking that the burden of using the courts to recover a small award (e.g. $825) is enough to deter a tenant from trying. All states have a Small Claims Court, and Michigan is no exception.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/consumerism/small_mi.html

http://www.michiganlegalaid.org/library_client/resource.2006-03-07.5270199575/html_view

Anyone in MI who wishes to file a grievance can claim up to $3000 in Small Claims Court, without any lawyer representation.

A tenant who feels his lease does not comply with state law (and there's ample reason to claim such a thing with L.I.'s lease, as I stated previously) can sue you in Small Claims Court and has a decent chance of winning.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Neither is just wishing the law won't apply to your case and leave you free to do whatever you want.