Question about additional information for Interview at HCMC

[Mozzer1972 7]

Hi,

I have a question for the seasoned members of VJ. I frontloaded my I-129F the best I could and still waiting for my NOA2 (June Filer). Since my submission, I have made a 4th trip to Vietnam and I am also planning to go again in a couple of months to visit my fiance.

My question is at what point to I provide this additional information and notarized timeline? Should I provide it to my fiance so that she can bring all the additional information to her interview at HCMC? Or is there some step in between.

Also, my fiance insists on my family being there for our Dam Hoi and actual wedding party in Vietnam. In her case, she prefers to have both in the same day since she also has relatives that will need to travel pretty far to attend this. Our plan is to do all this after she gets her K1 visa and possibly at a later date once we are married in the US. I know it does not look good if we do not have a Dam Hoi prior to the interview but won't 5 trips in less than 18 months to visit my Fiance help in our favor? She has no relatives in the US, her family is pretty well off in VN, she speaks good english and there is only a 7 year age gap between us.

Thanks for any input.

e.

[BurningFinger 5]

Your fiance can take the notarized time line with her to the interview. There is no guarantee that the CO will accept it though. Some VJ members have gotten the CO to accept the time line and others have tried and failed. It wouldn't hurt to have your fiance try.

There are a few things I would like to point out. You submitted your I-129F which means you are going the K1 route. The fact that you did not have your Dam Hoi before you submitted the I-129F can become somewhat problematic at the interview since you did not have the chance to front load evidence of the engagement ceremony with your petition. I say "can be" because this is not carved in stone. I would personally stay away from any wedding ceremonies in Vietnam since this could cause even more complexities at the interview, should the CO ask questions about this. One your next trip, have a Dam Hoi with your fiance and bring evidence of that to the interview and hope they accept it. The CO's at the HCMC Consulate are VERY picky about the Vietnamese cultural traditions and providing them with proof of such ceremonies is essential to your visa success.

I understand that you just made your 4th trip to Vietnam which means you made 3 trips prior to filing the I-129F. I am assuming that evidence of all those 3 trips were put in your petition. This is a good thing. Your age difference should not be a big deal and the fact that your fiance has no family living in the USA is also another good thing. Have you or your fiance ever been married before? Divorce is seen as a red flag by the HCMC Consulate. If either of you have been divorced before, I hope that you front loaded adequately with your petition. Good luck,

Travis

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Is she talking about the engagement party or the wedding party? The Dam Hoi is a traditional ceremony usually involving no more than a couple dozen close family members, and it's usually done in the morning. It's usually followed in the afternoon with a much bigger party involving all of the family and friends, sometimes numbering in the hundreds. For both engagements and weddings, the ceremony and party are usually held the same day. You wouldn't have a wedding party unless you had a wedding first.

Anyway, Travis is correct. It would probably have helped your case enormously if you'd had the engagement ceremony before you filed your petition. In my humble opinion, evidence of a traditional engagement ceremony followed by a big party is the single most important evidence you could have frontloaded with your petition. One of the main reasons for frontloading is that the CO is going to make a preliminary decision before your fiancee ever steps up to the interview window. This decision is going to be based solely on what the CO has seen so far, which includes your petition package. If they aren't already swayed by what they see, your fiancee might never get an opportunity to present evidence of anything that happened after you sent the petition.

Your fiancee is correct about having members of your family present to represent you at the Dam Hoi. An engagement is not simply between the intending bride and groom, but also between their families. It's traditional for the actual proposal to be made by your parents. If they aren't available, then a happily married couple from your immediate family can fill in. This is a big deal to the CO. Having your family members present means that your family considers this relationship to be serious enough to make a trip to Vietnam. Having a Dam Hoi without any of your family members present is still far far better than not having a Dam Hoi, though.

[luckytxn 2,263]

Of course I had none of my family members there to do the traditional asking for the hand in marriage for me and in my initial application I said that I went and asked the father if it was OK to become engaged. I really did this even though it was already known and arranged by all that it was going to happen but it is traditional to go ask anyway and I brought a gift when I did this. Right after then the family made the preparations for a huge party and invited all relatives to come and see us. Within two days we had bought a huge amount of food and beer and so many family showed up it was funny to me. I took a ton of pics and that is what I submitted as my proof of an engagement party.

It was actually a combined party as the grand patriarch of the family in the U.S. came with me and they usually have a huge party anyway when he comes. They do look very closely at traditional things but can and do understand that some variations have to occur and will accept that but they seem arbitrary to us at times. Now since you have applied for the K-1 then you need to show that you have had a somewhat traditional party but then to show you have gotten married too will defeat the purpose of the K-1 which is the one for a fiancee and that means becoming engaged and not married.

[vietazn 1]

You need to think about this more. The reason you wrote for not having dam hoi yet is for

families to attend both the same day. That just can't happen because you must

marry in the USA. You can have dam hoi and wedding the same day like many

people do, but her family won't be able to attend in the USA. So the only choices

are to have dam hoi in VN or have dam hoi and wedding in USA. But the consulate

will see inconsistency with the reason given in your post. This inconsistency and

not following rules of k1 visa will hurt her credibility in the interview.

[BinhJerome 14]

Hi,

I have a question for the seasoned members of VJ. I frontloaded my I-129F the best I could and still waiting for my NOA2 (June Filer). Since my submission, I have made a 4th trip to Vietnam and I am also planning to go again in a couple of months to visit my fiance.

My question is at what point to I provide this additional information and notarized timeline? Should I provide it to my fiance so that she can bring all the additional information to her interview at HCMC? Or is there some step in between.

Also, my fiance insists on my family being there for our Dam Hoi and actual wedding party in Vietnam. In her case, she prefers to have both in the same day since she also has relatives that will need to travel pretty far to attend this. Our plan is to do all this after she gets her K1 visa and possibly at a later date once we are married in the US. I know it does not look good if we do not have a Dam Hoi prior to the interview but won't 5 trips in less than 18 months to visit my Fiance help in our favor? She has no relatives in the US, her family is pretty well off in VN, she speaks good english and there is only a 7 year age gap between us.

Thanks for any input.

e.

Before I go far into this reply I want to tell you that if you wait to have the engagement party untill AFTER you get the visa you might not ever have an engagement party. Not trying to scare you, but for many people that go through the consulate this is basically a MUST HAVE. I had one, and in my denial they said it was small and inconsequential we had 100 guests, a 5 course meal, and there were white people in the pictures that could have been my family! The point I am trying to make is that almost every denial that is issued states that there was (A) NO engagement party of (B) the engagement was small and inconsequential which is in contrast to cultural norms where even the poorest of familes go out of their way to have a big engagement party. If you have made that many trips already, do you really want to roll the dice on not having an engagement party??? If you do, all I can say is GOOD LUCK!!! Now for your other questions, they will usually not accept any timeline from you until after they ask for it (meaning give you a blue sheet asking for it) but IF you wanted to try and get them to take it, you would need it notorized and signed by YOU and have her take it to the interview. Now for your other question about "5 trips in less than 18 monthsto visit my Fiance help in our favor? She has no relatives in the US, her family is pretty well off in VN, she speaks good english and there is only a 7 year age gap between us." First off who is older, and how old are you? If you are 40 and she is 33 then the age gap will not be an issue, however it still could be an issue if you are 27 and she is 20. The point is this, the CO knows what he/she thinks is good or bad, we can only go by other peoples situations that have posted here or that we know of personally. Now on to your 5 trips in 18 months and her family being pretty well off. 5 trips in 18 months to me seems like WAY to many depending on your job and how long you have been there and then the pay from your new job. Most people only get 1 week of vacation a year, after 3 years they get 2 weeks, so with it being in 2 seperate years, I can see how you might have been there 4 times for one week each, and some people just take time off from work without pay for major trips, the problem with this is that 5 trips cost a lot of money depending on where you fly from, so if you dont own the company or are not really bringing in serious cash, then the last part of your words seem to carry alot of weight "and her family being pretty well off." I am not trying to sound like the devil, but to me these things jump out at me since I have made 3 trips prior to me moving here in 18 months, I know that I made great money, but 3 trips still drastically depleated my bank account. The facts in HCMC are simple. there are MANY rich people in HCMC that try to pay their way to America, and the CO's know this, so HCMC is a high fraud consulate which means they look carefully at every situation, and if the money trail doesnt add up then they can say "hold up this isnt right" and they would start to dig more and more, now with 5 trips in an 18 month period they will wonder why NO engagement party, after all you HAVE been there 5 times. What do the family know it isnt real and it is for immigration purposes only? Why dont you want one same reason? I am not asking you this, just stating WHAT a CO MAY or MAY NOT think when looking at what you have told us. Now for the happy side of things, yes in a normal consulate 5 trips should count for something and you shouldnt have any issues at your interview since you have made 5 trips, and you can also try to explain that you wanted to wait until after the visa for the engagement party so that all the family could get together and so that the both of you could fly home to America together. This might work, it might not, I am not a CO and nobody else here is a CO either, as I said we can only go by your information and what we have seen in the past. Good luck Jerome and BInh

[BinhJerome 14]

On another note, some people say not to have the wedding ceremony, many have had it, as long as you dont sign anything it is not legal, some still say that it can cause problems, my friend the CO, clearly said he understands that it is a wedding for the family in VIETNAM only, and knows that as long as NO papers were signed that he actually likes it because HE feels that it shows more of a commitment than just an engagement party. I did have the engagement/wedding party and the CO did not even mention it because as I said we never signed anything making it a real wedding

[fred n Dao Honey 0]

We had our engagement party with only close local friends and family. about 50 people. the timeline is usually requested with the notorious "Blue Paper". The Consulate must accept information at anytime the you feel is benificial to your case. They may say they don't need it but you have the right under their rules to fill the file with anything at anytime. They did not look at the pics of our party or the emails until after we submitted more info while in "additional processing. We know this because they were out of order only after re-submitting.

[Mozzer1972 7]

Dear All,

Thank you very much for the feedback. Just a few answers to some of the questions:

1. Age gap: I'm 38 and she is 31

2. I was married once (to an American) and divorced. I submitted my divorce decree (all pages) with my I-129F. She has never been married.

3. I travel extensively for work so I used mileage for 3 out of my 4 trips. I have worked for my present company for 8 years so I have 3 weeks vacation per year. I'm not rich nor do I own my company so it also depletes my bank account even though I don't have to pay for my flights.

4. I think it is more my ignorance to VN customs rather than inconsistency. She insists on my family being there to have an official engagement party. So far, I simply asked her father for her hand in marriage and later had dinner with all her family (no more than 9 people). Ofcourse, we want to get the K1 visa first for my family to go over there to meet each other, have the Dam Hoi and then get married in the US. I submitted lots of photos of us together with her family but never had the official "Dam Hoi".

5. As far as engagement vs. wedding party, she showed me photos of her two sisters weddings and they did some kind of event in the morning and then a larger dinner party in the evening. I was under the impression that the morning was like an engagement type of ceremony with a meeting of the families and then the evening was more like a wedding party but as I said, I could be wrong and just my ignorance. One of her sisters married a guy from Singapore and I thought she said the engagement/wedding was in the same day since his family had to travel to VN so they did it in one shot.

I guess we will have a difficult time with this process and she will have trouble when the CO brings the engagement ceremony up at the interview. I submitted all I could with the I-129F and I only hope that they can see that our relationship is genuine and our love is sincere.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

4. I think it is more my ignorance to VN customs rather than inconsistency. She insists on my family being there to have an official engagement party. So far, I simply asked her father for her hand in marriage and later had dinner with all her family (no more than 9 people). Ofcourse, we want to get the K1 visa first for my family to go over there to meet each other, have the Dam Hoi and then get married in the US. I submitted lots of photos of us together with her family but never had the official "Dam Hoi".

Ok, there is a dichotomy between traditional Vietnamese culture and what Vietnamese people actually do today. Many Vietnamese don't have the traditional engagement ceremony anymore, especially in the big cities. The consulate doesn't view these as being legitimate relationships, in spite of the fact that it's the reality in Vietnam. As far as the consulate is concerned, you aren't engaged until you've had the Dam Hoi. If she goes to the interview without having had a traditional engagement ceremony it will significantly reduce the chances of her getting a visa. There are exceptions, of course, but the statistical odds are stacked against her.

5. As far as engagement vs. wedding party, she showed me photos of her two sisters weddings and they did some kind of event in the morning and then a larger dinner party in the evening. I was under the impression that the morning was like an engagement type of ceremony with a meeting of the families and then the evening was more like a wedding party but as I said, I could be wrong and just my ignorance. One of her sisters married a guy from Singapore and I thought she said the engagement/wedding was in the same day since his family had to travel to VN so they did it in one shot.

I guess we will have a difficult time with this process and she will have trouble when the CO brings the engagement ceremony up at the interview. I submitted all I could with the I-129F and I only hope that they can see that our relationship is genuine and our love is sincere.

To an untrained eye, pictures of a Dam Hoi would look very similar to pictures of a Dam Cuoi (wedding). They are often done on the same day. When they are not, either a Dam Hoi or Dam Cuoi ceremony would be followed by a large party. The ceremony is in the morning, and the party is in the afternoon, but they are part of the same event.

A CO can tell the difference between the two by looking for clues in the pictures. For example, a Dam Hoi party will usually have signs around the stage saying something like "Le Dinh Hon", which means "engagement celebration".

[Mozzer1972 7]

Ok, there is a dichotomy between traditional Vietnamese culture and what Vietnamese people actually do today. Many Vietnamese don't have the traditional engagement ceremony anymore, especially in the big cities. The consulate doesn't view these as being legitimate relationships, in spite of the fact that it's the reality in Vietnam. As far as the consulate is concerned, you aren't engaged until you've had the Dam Hoi. If she goes to the interview without having had a traditional engagement ceremony it will significantly reduce the chances of her getting a visa. There are exceptions, of course, but the statistical odds are stacked against her.

To an untrained eye, pictures of a Dam Hoi would look very similar to pictures of a Dam Cuoi (wedding). They are often done on the same day. When they are not, either a Dam Hoi or Dam Cuoi ceremony would be followed by a large party. The ceremony is in the morning, and the party is in the afternoon, but they are part of the same event.

A CO can tell the difference between the two by looking for clues in the pictures. For example, a Dam Hoi party will usually have signs around the stage saying something like "Le Dinh Hon", which means "engagement celebration".

Thank you, Jim. This is helpful but sounds like we will have alot of difficulty on this issue. The COs are super tough I guess.

[ScottThuy 140]

IMO its not all of the CO's.. but it only takes 1 bad CO (the one handling your case) to make it misreable... I have seen some here that everyone said they were heading toward a huge battle.. only to get pink at the interview... many here share the same opinion.. expect an uphill battle all of the way and be prepared for whatever may happen... when things go smooth its usually because one is very prepared and organized in the case presentation and interview...

Some have been approved with no Dam Hoi... others have been told the Dam Hoi was too small... Jerome had more people than we did, but they didnt even mention it to us and he got hit with it... we had a bad CO as did he, but not as bad... I think they each have thier own style of torture.. some beat up the B at the interview with hundreds of q's lasting over an hour.... others just ask a few questions at the interview and issue a blue asking for ridiculous #######...

in either case it is rare for them to not make an issue out of someone not having a Dam Hoi... if it cant be done before the interview since the petition was already filed... then there must be a good explanation ready when the interview comes...

a good analogy could be that when we go to buy a new house, we usually have inspections done prior to getting a loan... there may be no issues to be found, but its just the way that most reasonable people do things... I should emphasize the term "reasonable person", If we sat down to buy the house without an inspection most lenders today would say no way.. same with the CO's and a Dam Hoi... A reasonable person in VN would expect an engaged couple to have already had a Dam Hoi in most cases, unless it was to be done the same day of the wedding...

[utst10 0]

mozzer1972,

4. I think it is more my ignorance to VN customs rather than inconsistency. She insists on my family being there to have an official engagement party. So far, I simply asked her father for her hand in marriage and later had dinner with all her family (no more than 9 people). Ofcourse, we want to get the K1 visa first for my family to go over there to meet each other, have the Dam Hoi and then get married in the US. I submitted lots of photos of us together with her family but never had the official "Dam Hoi".

I think if your fiancee answer it the way you wrote the above statement, you won't have a problem. You have a VALID reason for not having a Dam Hoi. Be prepare to have this battle with them.

You seem to meet all the K1 requirements and unless your wife start acting "cocky", I think you two have a good shot at a visa. When my wife had her interviewed, she answered a few questions with the answers I front loaded her with! And as I recalled, she answered a few questions with "I dont know". She got approved.

[Eric & Hang 0]

Just to chime in on the OP's timeline question: Hang was able to turn in our notarized timeline with the main documents when she checked in (prior to the interview itself). She emphasized that it updated important information in our original petition and that her fiance wanted to make sure that they got it. I think it was useful because we could highlight what we saw as our strong points in a short, two-page overview and include the two additional trips to Vietnam after our I-129F filing.

[Mozzer1972 7]

mozzer1972,

4. I think it is more my ignorance to VN customs rather than inconsistency. She insists on my family being there to have an official engagement party. So far, I simply asked her father for her hand in marriage and later had dinner with all her family (no more than 9 people). Ofcourse, we want to get the K1 visa first for my family to go over there to meet each other, have the Dam Hoi and then get married in the US. I submitted lots of photos of us together with her family but never had the official "Dam Hoi".

I think if your fiancee answer it the way you wrote the above statement, you won't have a problem. You have a VALID reason for not having a Dam Hoi. Be prepare to have this battle with them.

You seem to meet all the K1 requirements and unless your wife start acting "cocky", I think you two have a good shot at a visa. When my wife had her interviewed, she answered a few questions with the answers I front loaded her with! And as I recalled, she answered a few questions with "I dont know". She got approved.

Thank you for your comments. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.