Deal with the Individual, Leave the Thread Be

[Fandango 1,440]

Recently, Kathryn locked yet ANOTHER thread. Here was the given reason

This has gone far enough. These last few pages provide perfect examples of some of the attitudes that create problems here on Visa Journey, As this thread has now degenerated into an exchange of personal attacks and insults, I am closing it down.

Julian, you can now add to your official credit that your comments have contributed directly to a thread being closed for TOS violations.

Shouldn't moderation then deal with the poster who 'contributed directly' instead of stifling all discussion????

Edited August 17, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[The_Dude 1,142]

My biggest complaint is the closing of threads because they have gone off topic. Conversations are fluid in nature and can flow to introduce new ideas. There is no need to close a thread that has an interesting conversation simply because it has skewed from it's initial premise. I could understand it if there were people trying to hijack a thread to divert any discourse on the subject, but then that leads into your idea Lisa, deal with the individual, don't close the thread.

I think the moderators should go one step further and edit the offensive post to simply state post deleted by _______________ for violation of ToS __________________________. And then post if administrative actions have been taken. I think you'd see fewer ToS violations.

[Fandango 1,440]

My biggest complaint is the closing of threads because they have gone off topic. Conversations are fluid in nature and can flow to introduce new ideas. There is no need to close a thread that has an interesting conversation simply because it has skewed from it's initial premise. I could understand it if there were people trying to hijack a thread to divert any discourse on the subject, but then that leads into your idea Lisa, deal with the individual, don't close the thread.

I think the moderators should go one step further and edit the offensive post to simply state post deleted by _______________ for violation of ToS __________________________. And then post if administrative actions have been taken. I think you'd see fewer ToS violations.

Couldn't agree more with you, I made a thread about that one as well.

[Fandango 1,440]

Moderating is not pushing buttons, which many on this team desperately need to learn. Moderating is not about making the problem go away quickly, which many on this team desperately need to learn. We all know moderating is hard work, that the mods are volunteers, etc, etc, but it doesn't excuse shoddy work. If you can't moderate effectively, then even your price tag of $0.00 is too high.

Julian's worst offense was that he was off-topic. The "mail order bride" bit wasn't PC, it was mildly offensive, but actually pretty tame for a site like this. And as much as I hate to defend the guy, what he said was a hell of a lot milder than 95% of the ####### that his target of choice, "Gary & Alla," get away with on a daily basis. If it hadn't been off-topic to the thread I'd even say that it was a good opportunity to help someone out who doesn't seem to quite "get" the VJ culture. We have plenty of members here who started off a bit clueless but then turned into great contributors, and I'd be willing to bet one of the reasons is because they weren't completely shut down by the moderators. Had Kathryn been interested in actual moderating, she would have sent a PM to tell him that he was dragging the thread off-topic, and to please drop it.

Just because you have a stick doesn't mean every problem can be solved by beating it with a stick.

agree with that also.

Btw, I used this most recent example purely as an example....this thread is about the whole practice of shutting down threads, not this one isolated incident.

[Nik+Heather 122]

I think the moderators should go one step further and edit the offensive post to simply state post deleted by _______________ for violation of ToS __________________________. And then post if administrative actions have been taken. I think you'd see fewer ToS violations.

Actually, once I posted more information in a post (draft of a letter including our address!) and when I reported it and requested that a mod please simply remove the information, I was told their only option was to invisible the whole thing. Only Ewok has the ability to edit other people's posts. The mods simply don't have the option to do as you suggest.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Actually, once I posted more information in a post (draft of a letter including our address!) and when I reported it and requested that a mod please simply remove the information, I was told their only option was to invisible the whole thing. Only Ewok has the ability to edit other people's posts. The mods simply don't have the option to do as you suggest.

Then Ewok could simply grant them the authority to do such.

[^_^ 5,021]

When I was a noob, I recall seeing posts during a search where moderators were able to do that. Moderation, as I have been led to believe, was dismantled at some point after. When I joined VJ, there were no moderators.

[The_Dude 1,142]

When I was a noob, I recall seeing posts during a search where moderators were able to do that. Moderation, as I have been led to believe, was dismantled at some point after. When I joined VJ, there were no moderators.

There weren't moderators in May of 2010? Whoa dude, this must be some sort of hallucination or nightmare then.

I am not familiar with this message board software, but I know most others allow the administrator to grant varying levels of authority to moderators and other personnel.

[^_^ 5,021]

Your post belongs to you, nobody else.

Is that true?

From VJ's Privacy Policy:

VisaJourney.com is the sole owner of the information collected on this site.

[The_Dude 1,142]

BTW, lisa, fix your signature file.kkthxbai.

[TBoneTX 47,924]

Realistically, the VJ TOS are unlikely to be overhauled to an extent that will completely mollify those who are currently dissatisfied with them.

Therefore, here's a radical thought: Rejuvenate Expatgroups, and post away to heart's content. (That's what it was created for, right?) Or, forsake VJ in favor of a more general social-networking site with moderation that's more palatable. Either approach might make some people happier than continuing to tilt fruitlessly at the VJ windmill, si man?

[The_Dude 1,142]

Realistically, the VJ TOS are unlikely to be overhauled to an extent that will completely mollify those who are currently dissatisfied with them.

Therefore, here's a radical thought: Rejuvenate Expatgroups, and post away to heart's content. (That's what it was created for, right?) Or, forsake VJ in favor of a more general social-networking site with moderation that's more palatable. Either approach might make some people happier than continuing to tilt fruitlessly at the VJ windmill, si man?

So is it you and Darnell's crusade to get OT posters purged from the sight?

[TBoneTX 47,924]

I don't think anybody is unhappy with the TOS, or wants it to be overhauled. It's actually a good TOS, and were it enforced evenly and fairly, and were all sub-forums and all members--even moderators--held to it, I think things would be pretty darned peachy-keen around here.

Well then, given the spottiness of what gets reported, and in view of the certain levels of subjectivity that will always creep in when human beings are involved, perhaps some people who complain the loudest should be more generally forgiving -- and avoid posting things that might get them suspended. This is not that hard to do.

Two problems with this: Expats, ugh. What an absolutely horrid pile of shite that was and is. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Perhaps some people think that certain areas of VJ are becoming the same, and dislike it, and the Moderators are reacting to that.

Second, this sounds like the "if you don't like it here, go away" argument.

Sure -- either change a disagreeable situation or remove ourselves from it. We do this all the time, every day.

What's the alternative if we actually do like it here, and don't want to go somewhere else?

Again, it's obvious: Avoid posting things that might incur a suspension. This is not that hard to do. How many dozens (hundreds?) of VJ members have never been warned (let alone suspended) in comparison with the relatively small number of members who have been suspended multiple times? How does the first group avoid warnings & suspensions? Answer that and apply it, and problem solved.

[TBoneTX 47,924]

So is it you and Darnell's crusade to get OT posters purged from the sight?

Seeing things in messages that aren't there, so soon again? Where in that quote does anything say "purge"? Where does it mention Darnell? Where does it mention a crusade? Where does it say OT? Why are you objecting (before denying that you are, see "rolleyes" above)? Why don't YOU take the bull by the horns and rejuvenate the Expat group, and post there to your heart's content?

[Fandango 1,440]

Seeing things in messages that aren't there, so soon again? Where in that quote does anything say "purge"? Where does it mention Darnell? Where does it mention a crusade? Where does it say OT? Why are you objecting (before denying that you are, see "rolleyes" above)? Why don't YOU take the bull by the horns and rejuvenate the Expat group, and post there to your heart's content?

I read it the same as Rob, and mox. The 'crusade' more belongs to Darnell, but at the same time, your post did sound like the old 'you don't like it, leave' variety.

Mox explained it perfectly. No one here is arguing for the right to make this place expats. No one here is saying the TOS needs revamping. In this regard, we're saying that the modding by some is completely OTT. At least that's what *i'm* saying,