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DOS Place of Birth Issue revisted.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Colombia
Timeline

We already know that a naturalized citizen is not like a natural born citizen in that their US passport reflects that. Not to type a book on this subject, but finally got an answer from the DOS on this subject.

They can't do anything about it, but for us to contact the USCIS and have them change her place of birth on her naturalization certificate, and with that new certificate, will issue her a new passport. with that new place of birth on it.

Now, how to do that, beats the heck out of me. But talk about buck passing between governmental agencies, just another example.

DOS also suggested I contact the Colombian embassy in Washington D.C., replied, not sure if I want to do that, were very rude to me the last time I called, after all, my wife is a traitor to that country she was born in. And did point that out, she had no choice in that matter.

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Filed: Other Timeline

We already know that a naturalized citizen is not like a natural born citizen in that their US passport reflects that.

Nick,

I know this issue is your pet peeve and I do understand why, but I still disagree with your assessment. Your issue is with the Colombians who are . . . . uhh . . . a bit strange in this department. The rest of the World doesn't have the issues your wife has.

I could be a natural born US citizen, born to a USC mother and a USC father, in my home country Germany. My US passport would reflect my place of birth, but from my place of birth alone you could not deduct whether or not I'm a natural born USC or a naturalized one.

Thus, my friend, you are mistaken.

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all . . . . The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic . . . . There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

President Teddy Roosevelt on Columbus Day 1915

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Colombia
Timeline

Nick,

I know this issue is your pet peeve and I do understand why, but I still disagree with your assessment. Your issue is with the Colombians who are . . . . uhh . . . a bit strange in this department. The rest of the World doesn't have the issues your wife has.

I could be a natural born US citizen, born to a USC mother and a USC father, in my home country Germany. My US passport would reflect my place of birth, but from my place of birth alone you could not deduct whether or not I'm a natural born USC or a naturalized one.

Thus, my friend, you are mistaken.

Why is that bold statement above twisting my brain? If you were to meet my wife, and speaking of Germany, her maiden name is German, and she is of German heritage, you couldn't tell if she was born in Colombia, only her US passport gives that away.

Say if a US born couple is traveling with a layover in Bogota, and due to weather or whatever, delayed there and the mom has her baby there. Do they put that child place of birth in Colombia?

I know for a fact that Colombia is the one that is making an issue out of this, did you every try to deal with them? But they couldn't if her place of birth wasn't listed in Colombia, so trying to deal with both Colombia and our DOS. But as you can see, getting nowhere.

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Filed: Other Timeline

NickD-

Thank you very much for posting this information! It is very helpful, indeed! :thumbs:

If you don't mind me asking, what is the source of information that you got this from? (for example, is it some public website link, or a private e-mail?). And if it is something that you can post, can you post that link here too?

And how was the DHS to you when you confronted them with this matter?

I understand that they can't do anything about the place of birth issue, as the DHS rules are that they have to put "some place" on the passport, regardless of what it is. However, if there is some way to alternatively get around this issue, it certainly helps there.

So from what I gather of your post, for the place of birth on a US passport, the DHS goes by what the USCIS says on the place of birth naturalization certificate....Am I right to assume this? So if the naturalization certificate and the passport match for birth places...Then that should be fine, right?

Lol..In that case, what you posted has given me more hope, in figuring out what to do next....hmm...makes me rethink about getting a US passport in the future......

Now the question for your situation is whether or not you would want a new naturalization certificate for your wife with another birth country listed...It would cost you another $400+ and $135+, though, and involves dealing with the USCIS again and DHS, but for peace of mind, maybe this can be a solution to you.

Good luck to you and your wife in this situation, and I hope you do get this sorted out.....

And yes, do post updates about this too....Thanks again....

Ant

We already know that a naturalized citizen is not like a natural born citizen in that their US passport reflects that. Not to type a book on this subject, but finally got an answer from the DOS on this subject.

They can't do anything about it, but for us to contact the USCIS and have them change her place of birth on her naturalization certificate, and with that new certificate, will issue her a new passport. with that new place of birth on it.

Now, how to do that, beats the heck out of me. But talk about buck passing between governmental agencies, just another example.

DOS also suggested I contact the Colombian embassy in Washington D.C., replied, not sure if I want to do that, were very rude to me the last time I called, after all, my wife is a traitor to that country she was born in. And did point that out, she had no choice in that matter.

Edited by Ant+D+BabyA

**Ant's 1432.gif1502.gif "Once Upon An American Immigration Journey" Condensed Timeline...**

2000 (72+ Months) "Loved": Long-Distance Dating Relationship. D Visited Ant in Canada.

2006 (<1 Month) "Visited": Ant Visited D in America. B-2 Visa Port of Entry Interrogation.

2006 (<1 Month) "Married": Wedding Elopement. Husband & Wife, D and Ant !! Together Forever!

2006 ( 3 Months I-485 Wait) "Adjusted": 2-Years Green Card.

2007 ( 2 Months) "Numbered": SSN Card.

2007 (<1 Months) "Licensed": NYS 4-Years Driver's License.

2009 (10 Months I-751 Wait) "Removed": 10-Years 5-Months Green Card.

2009 ( 9 Months Baby Wait) "Expected": Baby. It's a Boy, Baby A !!! We Are Family, Ant+D+BabyA !

2009 ( 4 Months) "Moved": New House Constructed and Moved Into.

2009 ( 2 Months N-400 Wait) "Naturalized": US Citizenship, Certificate of Naturalization. Goodbye USCIS!!!!

***Ant is a Naturalized American Citizen!!***: November 23, 2009 (Private Oath Ceremony: USCIS Office, Buffalo, NY, USA)

2009 (<1 Month) "Secured": US Citizen SSN Card.

2009 (<1 Month) "Enhanced": US Citizen NYS 8-Years Enhanced Driver's License. (in lieu of a US Passport)

2010 ( 1 Month) "Voted": US Citizen NYS Voter's Registration Card.

***~~~"The End...And the Americans, Ant+D+BabyA, lived 'Happily Ever After'!"...~~~***

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Filed: Other Timeline

Nick,

I know this issue is your pet peeve and I do understand why, but I still disagree with your assessment. Your issue is with the Colombians who are . . . . uhh . . . a bit strange in this department. The rest of the World doesn't have the issues your wife has.

I could be a natural born US citizen, born to a USC mother and a USC father, in my home country Germany. My US passport would reflect my place of birth, but from my place of birth alone you could not deduct whether or not I'm a natural born USC or a naturalized one.

Thus, my friend, you are mistaken.

JustBob-This is a pet peeve for me too....(and no, I'm not Columbian)....So I'm with NickD on this one...

Yes, a place of birth is a place of birth, regardless....

And it certainly does point out some 'red flags' when one's place if birth is different from their place of citizenship, regardless of how they were born and/or received citizenship.

Is it really necessary for it to be on a US passport, or for any other legal documents?

True, it does say where one is from and that is the past....But that is the past for everyone, regardless of where they are born...And frankly it should be left in the past..

All that should matter is what their country of citizenship is in reference to what passport they are carrying, for travels in present and future purposes....

If one is a US Citizen, all that should say on their US passport is "USA" and nothing else...No birth countries, former countries, or anything else like that....It sure would make things a lot simplier for everyone.....

Sigh..in ways I feel as though the USA is 'backwards' in this issue.....But that's another debate...lol....

Ant

Say if a US born couple is traveling with a layover in Bogota, and due to weather or whatever, delayed there and the mom has her baby there. Do they put that child place of birth in Colombia?

I know for a fact that Colombia is the one that is making an issue out of this, did you every try to deal with them? But they couldn't if her place of birth wasn't listed in Colombia, so trying to deal with both Colombia and our DOS. But as you can see, getting nowhere.

NickD-Lol..About the layover example....That's how I feel about my "other birth country"...It was just a "layover" along the way of life from Canada to the USA....And now because of that 'mistake' my parents made in chosing the wrong country where I was born...I've had to suffer for the rest of my life because of that...Now that's not fair.....

We don't have a choice as to where we are born..But we have a choice as to where we get naturalized....So shouldn't our documents reflect country of naturalization instead of country of birth?

Sorry that you had a hard time dealing with the folks in Columbia. Likewise, I'm having similar problems with my former country of birth...Getting nowhere...But nevertheless...Don't give up..Keep on trying!

Good luck in your situation too.

Ant

**Ant's 1432.gif1502.gif "Once Upon An American Immigration Journey" Condensed Timeline...**

2000 (72+ Months) "Loved": Long-Distance Dating Relationship. D Visited Ant in Canada.

2006 (<1 Month) "Visited": Ant Visited D in America. B-2 Visa Port of Entry Interrogation.

2006 (<1 Month) "Married": Wedding Elopement. Husband & Wife, D and Ant !! Together Forever!

2006 ( 3 Months I-485 Wait) "Adjusted": 2-Years Green Card.

2007 ( 2 Months) "Numbered": SSN Card.

2007 (<1 Months) "Licensed": NYS 4-Years Driver's License.

2009 (10 Months I-751 Wait) "Removed": 10-Years 5-Months Green Card.

2009 ( 9 Months Baby Wait) "Expected": Baby. It's a Boy, Baby A !!! We Are Family, Ant+D+BabyA !

2009 ( 4 Months) "Moved": New House Constructed and Moved Into.

2009 ( 2 Months N-400 Wait) "Naturalized": US Citizenship, Certificate of Naturalization. Goodbye USCIS!!!!

***Ant is a Naturalized American Citizen!!***: November 23, 2009 (Private Oath Ceremony: USCIS Office, Buffalo, NY, USA)

2009 (<1 Month) "Secured": US Citizen SSN Card.

2009 (<1 Month) "Enhanced": US Citizen NYS 8-Years Enhanced Driver's License. (in lieu of a US Passport)

2010 ( 1 Month) "Voted": US Citizen NYS Voter's Registration Card.

***~~~"The End...And the Americans, Ant+D+BabyA, lived 'Happily Ever After'!"...~~~***

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Filed: Country:
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They can't do anything about it, but for us to contact the USCIS and have them change her place of birth on her naturalization certificate, and with that new certificate, will issue her a new passport. with that new place of birth on it.

Now, how to do that, beats the heck out of me. But talk about buck passing between governmental agencies, just another example.

Umm, how about you can't because it is impossible to change where she was actually born.

My passport reflects that I was born in "ILLINOIS, USA". One of my younger brothers' passports reflects that he was born in South Korea. Can you guess if he is a "Born US Citizen" or "Naturalized"? I'll tell you is isn't naturalized but he is a US Citizen.

You won't be able to get DHS to agree to put a false place of birth on her Passport.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Colombia
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NickD-

Thank you very much for posting this information! It is very helpful, indeed! :thumbs:

If you don't mind me asking, what is the source of information that you got this from? (for example, is it some public website link, or a private e-mail?). And if it is something that you can post, can you post that link here too?

And how was the DHS to you when you confronted them with this matter?

I understand that they can't do anything about the place of birth issue, as the DHS rules are that they have to put "some place" on the passport, regardless of what it is. However, if there is some way to alternatively get around this issue, it certainly helps there.

So from what I gather of your post, for the place of birth on a US passport, the DHS goes by what the USCIS says on the place of birth naturalization certificate....Am I right to assume this? So if the naturalization certificate and the passport match for birth places...Then that should be fine, right?

Lol..In that case, what you posted has given me more hope, in figuring out what to do next....hmm...makes me rethink about getting a US passport in the future......

Now the question for your situation is whether or not you would want a new naturalization certificate for your wife with another birth country listed...It would cost you another $400+ and $135+, though, and involves dealing with the USCIS again and DHS, but for peace of mind, maybe this can be a solution to you.

Good luck to you and your wife in this situation, and I hope you do get this sorted out.....

And yes, do post updates about this too....Thanks again....

Ant

First I contacted "U.S. Department of State <usdeptstate@mailnj.custhelp.com>" and explained our plight, after weeks of waiting, finally got a reply that stated to contact "Ask CA <AskCA@state.gov>", explained our plight again and sent a scanned copy of my wife's US Passport. Only took a week to get a response this time.

The response was:

"Please contact the National Passport Information Center for assistance. The

toll free number is 1-877-487-2778."

That was it, I listened to their long message regarding everything including the new rate increases, couldn't figure out which button

to push because none of them seemed correct, then a real live woman was on the line. Explained the situation again to her. Her first advice

was to contact the Colombian Embassy and gave me the number that I already had for Washington DC. Told her they are not very friendly and

treated my wife like she is a traitor to the country she was born in and insist she has a Colombian passport. The woman said, she will have to

pose my question to the support staff and put me on hold for about ten minutes. Her response was to contact immigration and have her place of

birth changed on her naturalization certificate, the Department of State has to go by that. I said, do you mean the USCIS? She said, yes, that is

correct.

I did tell her I did find a 1986 study on the web where the Department of State polled 27 countries regarding the place of birth, thought only two

objected, think it was Denmark and the Netherlands, Colombia was polled, but they did not object. Did anything come about from this study, she

said she wasn't aware of that, but I will have to contact immigration to have that changed. I did reply that her place of birth is on her

naturalization certificate and is listed as Colombia, although she left that country when she was of legal age to do so. She does not want to be

a citizen of that country, her choice is the USA and she was very serious when she took that oath. Still have to contact immigration was told.

So that is where I am at now. Maybe I will call my senator, sure doesn't pay to write.

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Filed: Other Timeline

Ok...Before I continue...Let me clarify one thing....

The Naturalization Certificate says..."Former country of citizenship" on it...

and a US Passport says..."Place of Birth" on it...

To 99% of people this is one and the same, and there isn't a problem...

However, to the other 1%....(lol..such as in NickD's wife and my/Ant's situation), this can be seen as a problem, and especially more so if one of the former countries require one to maintain ties to that country, even though one does not have such ties anymore...

Both of these countries are different for that 1%, as one can have a different birth country and a different former country of citizenship.....

And hence, that is where a problem (and maybe a solution) can come into play in terms of dealing with the USCIS and DHS...

Umm, how about you can't because it is impossible to change where she was actually born.

My passport reflects that I was born in "ILLINOIS, USA". One of my younger brothers' passports reflects that he was born in South Korea. Can you guess if he is a "Born US Citizen" or "Naturalized"? I'll tell you is isn't naturalized but he is a US Citizen.

You won't be able to get DHS to agree to put a false place of birth on her Passport.

Bob4Anna-Yes, it is true that one can't change where they are actually born. And yes, I am aware of your situation that your brother got citizenship via CBRA (or by other means) and you were born in the USA. You can be president, while your brother cannot. Other than that, does it really matter what both of your birth places are? Regardless, you are both US Citizens, and that's the only thing that should matter and should be listed on a US Passport and/or other legal documents.

See, that's the point I was trying to make earlier....We should all be treated as EQUALS, as US CITIZENS, regardless of former country of birth or former citizenships...So does it really need to be mentioned at all by the government?

First I contacted "U.S. Department of State <usdeptstate@mailnj.custhelp.com>" and explained our plight, after weeks of waiting, finally got a reply that stated to contact "Ask CA <AskCA@state.gov>", explained our plight again and sent a scanned copy of my wife's US Passport. Only took a week to get a response this time.

The response was:

"Please contact the National Passport Information Center for assistance. The

toll free number is 1-877-487-2778."

That was it, I listened to their long message regarding everything including the new rate increases, couldn't figure out which button

to push because none of them seemed correct, then a real live woman was on the line. Explained the situation again to her. Her first advice

was to contact the Colombian Embassy and gave me the number that I already had for Washington DC. Told her they are not very friendly and

treated my wife like she is a traitor to the country she was born in and insist she has a Colombian passport. The woman said, she will have to

pose my question to the support staff and put me on hold for about ten minutes. Her response was to contact immigration and have her place of

birth changed on her naturalization certificate, the Department of State has to go by that. I said, do you mean the USCIS? She said, yes, that is

correct.

I did tell her I did find a 1986 study on the web where the Department of State polled 27 countries regarding the place of birth, thought only two

objected, think it was Denmark and the Netherlands, Colombia was polled, but they did not object. Did anything come about from this study, she

said she wasn't aware of that, but I will have to contact immigration to have that changed. I did reply that her place of birth is on her

naturalization certificate and is listed as Colombia, although she left that country when she was of legal age to do so. She does not want to be

a citizen of that country, her choice is the USA and she was very serious when she took that oath. Still have to contact immigration was told.

So that is where I am at now. Maybe I will call my senator, sure doesn't pay to write.

NickD-Thanks for posting more information regarding your contacts with the DHS. Again, that was very helpful, indeed!

Interesting to learn how the DHS operates...Lol..Apparently they go by what the certificate and the USCIS says...go figure..

Sorry though, that they gave you the "run around" before you got some kind of response from them. Nevertheless, keep on trying, don't give up, and yes, do contact your senator if need be (you've had success with them before, so I'm sure you'll have success with them again too). Meanwhile, you could consider the new naturalization certificate option, as mentioned by them, as that might be a solution in your situation. For example, would having "Venezuela" (where she was a former citizen before in) on your wife's naturalization certificate instead of "Columbia" help at all? Just a thought....(and also mentioned by the DHS about getting a new certificate too)

Good luck with your case and situation. And yes, do post about that on VJ too...

Ant

**Ant's 1432.gif1502.gif "Once Upon An American Immigration Journey" Condensed Timeline...**

2000 (72+ Months) "Loved": Long-Distance Dating Relationship. D Visited Ant in Canada.

2006 (<1 Month) "Visited": Ant Visited D in America. B-2 Visa Port of Entry Interrogation.

2006 (<1 Month) "Married": Wedding Elopement. Husband & Wife, D and Ant !! Together Forever!

2006 ( 3 Months I-485 Wait) "Adjusted": 2-Years Green Card.

2007 ( 2 Months) "Numbered": SSN Card.

2007 (<1 Months) "Licensed": NYS 4-Years Driver's License.

2009 (10 Months I-751 Wait) "Removed": 10-Years 5-Months Green Card.

2009 ( 9 Months Baby Wait) "Expected": Baby. It's a Boy, Baby A !!! We Are Family, Ant+D+BabyA !

2009 ( 4 Months) "Moved": New House Constructed and Moved Into.

2009 ( 2 Months N-400 Wait) "Naturalized": US Citizenship, Certificate of Naturalization. Goodbye USCIS!!!!

***Ant is a Naturalized American Citizen!!***: November 23, 2009 (Private Oath Ceremony: USCIS Office, Buffalo, NY, USA)

2009 (<1 Month) "Secured": US Citizen SSN Card.

2009 (<1 Month) "Enhanced": US Citizen NYS 8-Years Enhanced Driver's License. (in lieu of a US Passport)

2010 ( 1 Month) "Voted": US Citizen NYS Voter's Registration Card.

***~~~"The End...And the Americans, Ant+D+BabyA, lived 'Happily Ever After'!"...~~~***

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Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: India
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Bob4Anna-Yes, it is true that one can't change where they are actually born. And yes, I am aware of your situation that your brother got citizenship via CBRA (or by other means) and you were born in the USA. You can be president, while your brother cannot. Other than that, does it really matter what both of your birth places are? Regardless, you are both US Citizens, and that's the only thing that should matter and should be listed on a US Passport and/or other legal documents.

His brother is a natural-born citizen (via 'jus sanguinus') and thus is eligible to run for POTUS.

Yes, it matters because it shows HOW one acquired citizenship of the United States -- whether by natural born (jus soli or jus sanguinis) or naturalization.

Edited by sachinky

03/27/2009: Engaged in Ithaca, New York.
08/17/2009: Wedding in Calcutta, India.
09/29/2009: I-130 NOA1
01/25/2010: I-130 NOA2
03/23/2010: Case completed.
05/12/2010: CR-1 interview at Mumbai, India.
05/20/2010: US Entry, Chicago.
03/01/2012: ROC NOA1.
03/26/2012: Biometrics completed.
12/07/2012: 10 year card production ordered.

09/25/2013: N-400 NOA1

10/16/2013: Biometrics completed

12/03/2013: Interview

12/20/2013: Oath ceremony

event.png

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Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: India
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I did reply that her place of birth is on her

naturalization certificate and is listed as Colombia, although she left that country when she was of legal age to do so. She does not want to be

a citizen of that country, her choice is the USA and she was very serious when she took that oath. Still have to contact immigration was told.

Colombia doesn't give a damn whether your wife took an oath or how serious she was. Taking the 'Oath of Allegiance' isn't an automatic renunciation of former citizenships (for some countries, like India, it is, but not all). Yes I know what the oath says but unless she takes concrete steps to surrender her Colombian citizenship, she is considered to be a citizen by the Colombian government and thus, is subject to the laws of that country.

Is it really that hard to get a Colombian passport and to use it when entering Colombia to visit her mom? I'm still struggling to understand what the big deal is, honestly.

Edited by sachinky

03/27/2009: Engaged in Ithaca, New York.
08/17/2009: Wedding in Calcutta, India.
09/29/2009: I-130 NOA1
01/25/2010: I-130 NOA2
03/23/2010: Case completed.
05/12/2010: CR-1 interview at Mumbai, India.
05/20/2010: US Entry, Chicago.
03/01/2012: ROC NOA1.
03/26/2012: Biometrics completed.
12/07/2012: 10 year card production ordered.

09/25/2013: N-400 NOA1

10/16/2013: Biometrics completed

12/03/2013: Interview

12/20/2013: Oath ceremony

event.png

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Colombia
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Colombia doesn't give a damn whether your wife took an oath or how serious she was. Taking the 'Oath of Allegiance' isn't an automatic renunciation of former citizenships (for some countries, like India, it is, but not all). Yes I know what the oath says but unless she takes concrete steps to surrender her Colombian citizenship, she is considered to be a citizen by the Colombian government and thus, is subject to the laws of that country.

Is it really that hard to get a Colombian passport and to use it when entering Colombia to visit her mom? I'm still struggling to understand what the big deal is, honestly.

So far we spent 500 US dollars in just trying to renew her Colombian ID, while her mom had the original certificate, they wouldn't accept it, so cost several hundred dollars just to get a copy of that same certificate. Entire country is run by what they call notaries, not like here, another word for attorneys. So you just can't get a copy from their government office, has to be through a notary. They like our attorneys know how to charge.

Colombia has three consulates in the USA, none of them are across the street from us, have to show up in person to get their passport, and as I said, they are not very nice to former people born in Colombia that became citizens of different countries, like the USA.

In effect, she did renounce her Colombian citizenship by not renewing her ID, did have her old ID with a photo of a 16 year old girl on it, with an expired ID, has no rights in that country. But the dead giveaway was she had Colombia in big fat letters printed on her US passport. Even if she did formally renounce her citizenship, that would still be there, and try explaining that to the guard at their POE.

In regards to proof of US citizenship, you either have a USA born person with a birth certificate or a naturalization certificate, even an idiot could be able to tell if you were natural born or naturalized with or without your place of birth. As an example SS issues you a unique SS card with a unique number, but they also tell you not to broadcast that number for identity thief. DOS and USCIS broadcasts your place of birth all over the place. What about that so called need to know basis? Government needs to know, but does the rest of the world need to know as well?

What I find totally hypocritical about our DOS and now the buck passed to the USCIS, is that they do not recognize "dual citizenship" , but use the phrase, "dual nationality" instead. But it is "dual citizenship" if a person wants to visit their family in their home country. And it them that forces people in this predicament to have "dual citizenship", because its them that puts either the country of birth or the place of birth on key documents.

Then they make a big deal out of profiling, Colombia carries a stigma with them as everyone from there is considered a drug dealer, my wife, step daughter, and even my mother-in-law were stripped searched when they entered this country. This is not right!

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Filed: Other Timeline

His brother is a natural-born citizen (via 'jus sanguinus') and thus is eligible to run for POTUS.

Yes, it matters because it shows HOW one acquired citizenship of the United States -- whether by natural born (jus soli or jus sanguinis) or naturalization.

Colombia doesn't give a damn whether your wife took an oath or how serious she was. Taking the 'Oath of Allegiance' isn't an automatic renunciation of former citizenships (for some countries, like India, it is, but not all). Yes I know what the oath says but unless she takes concrete steps to surrender her Colombian citizenship, she is considered to be a citizen by the Colombian government and thus, is subject to the laws of that country.

Sachinky-Yes, it is does matter how one acquired citizenship, when it comes to running for president for the United States. Other than that, does it really matter? And frankly to list a birth country, regardless of one's country, can be seen as discriminatory in ways. If the only issue here for having a birth country listed is because of who is eligible to run for president and who is not, the simple solution would be to put "CAN RUN FOR PRESIDENT" or "CANNOT RUN FOR PRESIDENT" on one's passport and/or legal documents, instead of listing a birth country...

And yes, it is true that other countries do not care about any oaths that one takes in the USA. As far as the USA is concerned, once a US Citizen takes the oath, they are a US Citizen, and nothing else. As for other countries, you are still a citizen of that country, and like you said, unless you take concrete steps to renounce that country's citizenship. For example, in my situation, for the USA, I am a US Citizen only. But for my former country Canada, I am both a Canadian Citizen and an American Citizen (they accept dual citizenship, and I'm still keeping both citizenships). And for my former birth country of 'other', I am still unclear as to what my status is regarding that (I'm still inquiring about it, so that I can take the steps to renounce/revoke it). Each country is different as to how they approach and maintain their citizen's citizenship status. So if one needs to renounce/revoke one's former citizenship in order to be fully recognized as an American Citizen, and nothing else, in all countries, maybe that 'extra step' needs to be done too.....

Ant

Edited by Ant+D+BabyA

**Ant's 1432.gif1502.gif "Once Upon An American Immigration Journey" Condensed Timeline...**

2000 (72+ Months) "Loved": Long-Distance Dating Relationship. D Visited Ant in Canada.

2006 (<1 Month) "Visited": Ant Visited D in America. B-2 Visa Port of Entry Interrogation.

2006 (<1 Month) "Married": Wedding Elopement. Husband & Wife, D and Ant !! Together Forever!

2006 ( 3 Months I-485 Wait) "Adjusted": 2-Years Green Card.

2007 ( 2 Months) "Numbered": SSN Card.

2007 (<1 Months) "Licensed": NYS 4-Years Driver's License.

2009 (10 Months I-751 Wait) "Removed": 10-Years 5-Months Green Card.

2009 ( 9 Months Baby Wait) "Expected": Baby. It's a Boy, Baby A !!! We Are Family, Ant+D+BabyA !

2009 ( 4 Months) "Moved": New House Constructed and Moved Into.

2009 ( 2 Months N-400 Wait) "Naturalized": US Citizenship, Certificate of Naturalization. Goodbye USCIS!!!!

***Ant is a Naturalized American Citizen!!***: November 23, 2009 (Private Oath Ceremony: USCIS Office, Buffalo, NY, USA)

2009 (<1 Month) "Secured": US Citizen SSN Card.

2009 (<1 Month) "Enhanced": US Citizen NYS 8-Years Enhanced Driver's License. (in lieu of a US Passport)

2010 ( 1 Month) "Voted": US Citizen NYS Voter's Registration Card.

***~~~"The End...And the Americans, Ant+D+BabyA, lived 'Happily Ever After'!"...~~~***

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Filed: Other Timeline

NickD-Now I can see to the full extent as to why you would have problems dealing with this birth country issue....Wow, I can't believe they would actually charge you and your wife hundreds of dollars just to renew her former ID. And added to the extra time and frustration that you have to deal with such...It's definitely not easy for you there...

Well, by your wife not renewing her expired ID, she did say that she does not want to be part of that country. However, if she ever did want to renew and/or is forced to renew her ID, then she will have those rights back to that country again. This is where taking an extra step of formally renouncing citizenship to this country would help...

Likewise, my situation is similar to yours, in terms of my other birth country. I have no part of that country, and I do not have any ID cards or passports issued or any other legal documents in my name regarding that country. I have not visited that country since I was a small child, and have no other ties to that country. All the ties that I have is a damn birth certificate (lol..which I would like to burn and get rid of if I could...). So why am I still tied to this country, despite me being a naturalized US Citizen, and choosing to be a citizen of the USA instead of this country? Lol..Try explaining this at POE too (and to any other government/immigration official....boy would I have a long story to tell...)

This is where I have decided that I am going to take the extra step in revoking/renouncing my birth country's citizenship and/or legal rights to such. Again, maybe this can be a step for you and your wife to take too.....

Interesting too, that you brought up the SSA issue...Yes, one is supposed to keep an SSN private...

However, did you know that recently the SSA has asked "place of birth" as a "security question"? Gee, it's not really that secure if the DHS and the USCIS broadcasts one's place of birth on their documents. Imagine if someone who looked like your wife walked into the SSA office, and they knew that she was born in Columbia and answered correctly about that and then got access to your wife's private information...Now that would be scary for identity theft and security reasons....

Hmmm..Yet another issue to bring up with the SSA and other government agencies....lol.....Thanks.....

I agree, it's nobody else's business as to what one's place of birth/former country is..

In terms of immigration-wise, all that is needed to know is if one is a citizen, permanent resident, illegal alien, etc.....That's it....So what's the deal about the birth country thing? The whole world doesn't need to know, I agree!

It's not right in all instances, especially if this information is used for discrimiatory purposes, racial profiling, and for other security breech reasons.....

Lol...Hypocrites, indeed.....They expect US Citizens to be loyal to the US only...Yet we can't expect them to be loyal back in terms of not putting any former countries on their documents....

Sigh.....

Good luck in your situation....Wish you all the best...

Ant

So far we spent 500 US dollars in just trying to renew her Colombian ID, while her mom had the original certificate, they wouldn't accept it, so cost several hundred dollars just to get a copy of that same certificate. Entire country is run by what they call notaries, not like here, another word for attorneys. So you just can't get a copy from their government office, has to be through a notary. They like our attorneys know how to charge.

Colombia has three consulates in the USA, none of them are across the street from us, have to show up in person to get their passport, and as I said, they are not very nice to former people born in Colombia that became citizens of different countries, like the USA.

In effect, she did renounce her Colombian citizenship by not renewing her ID, did have her old ID with a photo of a 16 year old girl on it, with an expired ID, has no rights in that country. But the dead giveaway was she had Colombia in big fat letters printed on her US passport. Even if she did formally renounce her citizenship, that would still be there, and try explaining that to the guard at their POE.

In regards to proof of US citizenship, you either have a USA born person with a birth certificate or a naturalization certificate, even an idiot could be able to tell if you were natural born or naturalized with or without your place of birth. As an example SS issues you a unique SS card with a unique number, but they also tell you not to broadcast that number for identity thief. DOS and USCIS broadcasts your place of birth all over the place. What about that so called need to know basis? Government needs to know, but does the rest of the world need to know as well?

What I find totally hypocritical about our DOS and now the buck passed to the USCIS, is that they do not recognize "dual citizenship" , but use the phrase, "dual nationality" instead. But it is "dual citizenship" if a person wants to visit their family in their home country. And it them that forces people in this predicament to have "dual citizenship", because its them that puts either the country of birth or the place of birth on key documents.

Then they make a big deal out of profiling, Colombia carries a stigma with them as everyone from there is considered a drug dealer, my wife, step daughter, and even my mother-in-law were stripped searched when they entered this country. This is not right!

**Ant's 1432.gif1502.gif "Once Upon An American Immigration Journey" Condensed Timeline...**

2000 (72+ Months) "Loved": Long-Distance Dating Relationship. D Visited Ant in Canada.

2006 (<1 Month) "Visited": Ant Visited D in America. B-2 Visa Port of Entry Interrogation.

2006 (<1 Month) "Married": Wedding Elopement. Husband & Wife, D and Ant !! Together Forever!

2006 ( 3 Months I-485 Wait) "Adjusted": 2-Years Green Card.

2007 ( 2 Months) "Numbered": SSN Card.

2007 (<1 Months) "Licensed": NYS 4-Years Driver's License.

2009 (10 Months I-751 Wait) "Removed": 10-Years 5-Months Green Card.

2009 ( 9 Months Baby Wait) "Expected": Baby. It's a Boy, Baby A !!! We Are Family, Ant+D+BabyA !

2009 ( 4 Months) "Moved": New House Constructed and Moved Into.

2009 ( 2 Months N-400 Wait) "Naturalized": US Citizenship, Certificate of Naturalization. Goodbye USCIS!!!!

***Ant is a Naturalized American Citizen!!***: November 23, 2009 (Private Oath Ceremony: USCIS Office, Buffalo, NY, USA)

2009 (<1 Month) "Secured": US Citizen SSN Card.

2009 (<1 Month) "Enhanced": US Citizen NYS 8-Years Enhanced Driver's License. (in lieu of a US Passport)

2010 ( 1 Month) "Voted": US Citizen NYS Voter's Registration Card.

***~~~"The End...And the Americans, Ant+D+BabyA, lived 'Happily Ever After'!"...~~~***

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Colombia
Timeline

Bottom line is still, as long as her place of birth is on her US passport, will have problems entering that country regardless of whether she renounces her Colombian citizenship or not.

Am sure we are not the only one with this problem, and Colombia is not the only country that demands this.

Probably with me, an issue when you live in a country that is suppose to have a government by the people and for the people, that as a people, putting forth a voice on this subject. Yes, we have friends that just accept this, but if they want to live their lives as lambs and be led to slaughter, that is their option.

Have yet to hear one good logical reason why that place of birth is even on the passport, running for president is about the most illogical reason that could be given, in particular when you have the opposing party in power that has access to every secret in the book about that person. Even the DOS is incapable of giving a logical reason for this, hell that is the way its done and been that way for years!

And this practice is in direct contradiction to the oath a naturalized citizen has to give. They are forcing you to maintain a dual citizenship even though the dumb basterds don't like to call it that. And what is all this BS about family? Family always comes last in our procedures or laws.

These agencies can't even keep their terminology straight! One says, " Country of former nationality", the other says "Place of birth"! "Regarding the latter, that could be in a hospital!

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What I find totally hypocritical about our DOS and now the buck passed to the USCIS, is that they do not recognize "dual citizenship" , but use the phrase, "dual nationality" instead. But it is "dual citizenship" if a person wants to visit their family in their home country. And it them that forces people in this predicament to have "dual citizenship", because its them that puts either the country of birth or the place of birth on key documents.

From a legal perspective there is actually a huge difference between citizenship and nationality.

Your nationality is something you cannot change, it is the notion of belonging to a nation or geographical region (not even necessarily a country) either mentally or legally with documentation (by holding a passport). Most countries consider you to be a citizen of a country you hold a passport of, but from a legal point of view you are not unless you consider yourself to be. While citizenship is also in fact the description of belonging to a nation, it is the one you hold an allegiance to, and the nation you decide to call yourself to be a citizen of.

In short, the DOS lets you have as many passports as you want as long as you are an american, because a passport does not necessarily make you a citizen of a different country even if the other country thinks it does.

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