k-1 help for Ukraine beneficiary

[IrieCat 2]

Good Morning!

I have gone through the K1 process w/ my now husband from St Lucia.

A friend of my uncles has asked me to help w/ his paperwork for his Ukranian fiance.

He is VERY organized which is great! I am just getting everything together for him in the correct order, cover letter, etc.

He has taken 2 trips to visit fiance in the Ukraine. He also gave me some "evidence of ongoing relationship".

Now my question is he has sent her thousands of dollars via Western Union. I am hesitent to include this because it doesn't really show a relationship, just that he sends her lots of money.

What do you all think?

His journey is a bit different, both have been divorced so I am including divorce papers (hers has been translated).

I did not have to translate anything with mine, and we have never been married before.

Thanks all for your help. If you can think of anything different with a Ukranian journey... let me know!

-Irie

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Sending money can be seen as paying for a green card if it goes the other way. But many people send money to their significant others. But I would worry about the amount unless it was tied to some significant event.

[IrieCat 2]

Thats what I am thinking. He sent her some money for getting stuff translated, medicine for her mom, all kinds of different stuff...

But he has enough "evidence" besides that so I think I will leave it out.

[baron555 934]

Thats what I am thinking. He sent her some money for getting stuff translated, medicine for her mom, all kinds of different stuff...

But he has enough "evidence" besides that so I think I will leave it out.

Translations and medicines do NOT cost thousands of dollars. I smell scammer big time, regardless. Big red flag.

Edited June 24, 2010 by baron555

[IrieCat 2]

It does "sound" like a scam. But in pics and stories it sounds ok to me. He is 60s, she is close to 50. So age to me seems ok, really not for me to judge. He is a super nice guy and has been married twice before, she once.

I would hope he could smell the scam. But to each his own I guess.

I am a "truster" I just hope it all turns out well for the both of them.

I have another friend whos father went through the same thing and after a few years things seem to be going quite well...

[slim 1,514]

He sent her some money for getting stuff translated, medicine for her mom, all kinds of different stuff...

That's not evidence of an ongoing relationship, that's evidence of a scam. So, leave that out.

As you mentioned, both are divorced, similar in age, etc., so as long as they have real evidence, then fine. Send it in. Do the K-1 exactly like you did yours just don't include any info about him "supporting her" already.

Tell him to come here to the RUB forum! We'll get him through!

[IrieCat 2]

I tried to tell him about VJ! But he took one look at it and had information overload... kind of like my mother trying to program an answering machine!! LOL (sorry mom)

So he handed it all over to me! I don't mind helping, I just hope it turns out as well as my journey has. I must say mine went super-smooth.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thats what I am thinking. He sent her some money for getting stuff translated, medicine for her mom, all kinds of different stuff...

But he has enough "evidence" besides that so I think I will leave it out.

Are you sending a petition? You don't need ANY evidence of a relationship for the petition, just proof they have met (at least once) signed letters of intent and proof they are free to marry (divorce certficates) Save the rest for the interview.

Money sent to a fiancee will have no affect in Ukraine. I wouldn't mention it and if he is sending her thousands of dollars without a detailed explanation of what it is (it is not medicine, medicine is cheap or free in Ukraine) then he is being scammed. No sincere Ukrainian woman would ask for or accept money from anyone without detailing what it was for. It is HUGELY inapproproate for someone to ask for money, usually only from very close friends or relatives and never without an explanation.

[IrieCat 2]

Thanks Gary & Alla. He has visited w/ her twice so I have all that info too.

I will be helping him all along the way so will need the "ongoing stuff" in the future.

I don't know him well enough to give me opinion. He is surely old enough to make his own decisions. There may very well be legit reasons for him to send her all that money. Its not my place to pry.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thanks Gary & Alla. He has visited w/ her twice so I have all that info too.

I will be helping him all along the way so will need the "ongoing stuff" in the future.

I don't know him well enough to give me opinion. He is surely old enough to make his own decisions. There may very well be legit reasons for him to send her all that money. Its not my place to pry.

You bet. Hey, I DEMAND my right to be scammed by hot Ukrainian women, I am an adult dammit! And believe me there is no reason a Ukrainian woman pushing 50 isn't hot. There are plenty of them! And a 10 year age difference is perfectly normal and even "ideal" by most Ukrainian women's reasoning. I am 12 years older than my wife and she thinks it is "perfect".

Just commenting in general for what it is worth, it is culturally not acceptable to ask for money from people other than close friends or relatives and while a fiancee my certainly qualify I can tell you of dozens of fiancees that absolutely refused any monetary help from their US intended husband. It is something to be aware of and I do not see, under any circumstances where "thousands of dollars" would be needed. "Thousands of dollars" can easily double or triple a person's annual income in Ukraine. Be careful. Check things out, and then...do as he will!

[IrieCat 2]

She does look very pretty from her pictures!

This guy is super nice like I said before. He wanted to give me $500 to help him... I say NO WAY! He did all the work, I am just a 2nd set of eyes.

[baron555 934]

Thanks Gary & Alla. He has visited w/ her twice so I have all that info too.

I will be helping him all along the way so will need the "ongoing stuff" in the future.

I don't know him well enough to give me opinion. He is surely old enough to make his own decisions. There may very well be legit reasons for him to send her all that money. Its not my place to pry.

Even though in general I agree with you, I totally disagree, based on the basis of international immigration and coming to the US. If you/we have knowledge that the US immigration system is going to be abused for visa fraud, then we collectively have an obligation to report it.

As stated, it is very fishy as to why his fiance would need thousands of dollars (before they are married) and I don't care how many times he's gone to visit, etc. Something doesn't sound right.

Our visa processes are difficult enough and are so because of legit fraud that "forces" others to pay the penalty in time and extra scrutiny.

So, if I was you, I'd have a heart to heart with this man and present all information as we see it. Scam is written all over this and your uncle and our immigration proces will only suffer for it, if it is true.

[IrieCat 2]

He isnt my uncle, he is a friend of my uncles. If he were my uncle it would be easier to tell it to him straight!

However, I personally don't beleive it is a scam. But I will mention why I would leave out the western union receipts.

I will try and talk to him about it, I totally understand what you are saying.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

He isnt my uncle, he is a friend of my uncles. If he were my uncle it would be easier to tell it to him straight!

However, I personally don't beleive it is a scam. But I will mention why I would leave out the western union receipts.

I will try and talk to him about it, I totally understand what you are saying.

Most of the internet scammers are not even women, they are men that scrape some photos off a website and set up a profile, they actually get American men to send them money, usually to "pay for a visa and plane ticket to come to you for hot nights of sex" You will never "meet" or talk to these guys because that is not there game. If they don't have you sending money to them within three emails, see ya later. Women doing the same thing may agree to a few phone conversations if it leads them to the money. Since they have no interest in doing it legally they will usually not agree to meet someone either, they want the $$$ and they want it fast.

Then you have the ones that will actually meet somone, they are more long term in their plan. They cultivate donors, usually several at one time. They WILL meet with people, they WILL make plans to get married, they WILL even allow the man to file a petition for them. They collect as much as possible and then eventually break off the engagement. Other red flags to look for....she is frequently unavailable, travels frequently or is out of touch for days at a time (meeting other men) Everyone in the FSU has cell phones, they are even more pervasive than here, if you can believe it, and there should be no reason he can't call her anytime he wants. They are engaged, if ANYthing feels out of sorts for what a relationship should be when you are committed to marry someone...bail out. Ukrainian women are very devoted to their husbands, if she is serious she will always be available.

I say all this only because it is so unusual for women to accept or ask for money. Alla and I were engaged and she absolutely REFUSED to accept ANY money from me. Not a fake refusal, not an "Oh, no thanks...well, OK" type. I mean she never would go to Western Union to pick up the money I sent. We were already engaged and the I-129f was already filed...no way! Only when we started incurring expenses related to the move did she accept and only then after sitting down and doing a budget using both her income and mine and planning ALL our expenses, did she accept money for the pourpose of paying for some move related expenses she would not otherwise have had. She did not accept any money for normal living expenses.

Medicine is FREE to almost free in Ukraine. Alla still buys all her pharmacueticals there, contact lenses, etc. She just came back with a suitcase full of pharmacy items. Anything from "special womens needs" to face cleansers, betadine, etc. and a year's supply of contact lenses. All very cheap.

When I learned about all this, mostly from my landlord in Ukraine that also had a marriage agency, I wondered later "How is Ukraine not considered a "high fraud" country?" In fact when I started the process I assumed Ukraine WOULD be a high fraud country. It isn't. Because none of these scams ever make it to the consulate level. If the petitions are withdrawn or abandoned, no one makes a judgement as to why. The women going to the consulate for visa interviews are very serious and sincere.

Just have your uncle tell his friend to keep both eyes open. And good luck!

[slim 1,514]

I just hope it turns out as well as my journey has. I must say mine went super-smooth.

For your first rule of RUB VJ - You can't say something is going to go well because then you'll jinx yourself. Seriously, it's a big-time RUB superstition that whatever you talk about in a good way will go bad simply because you've said it. Now you have to say "ptooooey! pthooooey! Phtoooey!" and then you'll be OK. Seriously. It's real. Do it.

I do not see, under any circumstances where "thousands of dollars" would be needed.

While it may not be needed, it's quite common. We get posters here all the time who've sent money to "help" their MIL or someone in their fiancee's family or even given their fiancee a direct allowance. While none of that is necessary (what would they do without their American benefactor?) it's quite common. If he has money to send her and doesn't mind doing it, there's nothing wrong with that, especially considering their age. If he were sending an allowance or "money for MIL's pills" to a woman that was 19, well, that'd be a different story.

Regardless, he shouldn't include receipts or "proof" of "paying her to accept a K-1." I know it looks like he's helping support her and taking care of her and setting it up like he's going to be responsible for her when she gets here, but that's not how it looks when he sends it to Nebraska or wherever. It looks like he's paying this woman to come marry him. Don't make it look that way! Simply leave the receipts out.

He'll get the chance to prove his worth when she goes to the interview. With that kind of money, he can probably afford to make the unnecessary trip to join her at the interview.

He wanted to give me $500 to help him...

Based on this, I can see why he's sent her so much.

Also based on this, you can tell him to send me $500 and I'll help too.